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Let's Talk Cyclecars

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Bigcheese327, Dec 4, 2007.

  1. Ned Ludd
    Joined: May 15, 2009
    Posts: 5,025

    Ned Ludd
    Member

    A light but aerodynamically relatively dirty car should need about 20bhp to cruise at 60mph. For how much of the power curve does the engine make more than 20bhp?
     
  2. fredvv44
    Joined: Dec 11, 2013
    Posts: 620

    fredvv44
    Member

    I don't think I would want to have to drive a street car that had to run at 11K RPM. The JZR originally used a Honda CX500 V twin and the owners complained about the high revs. I have a Guzzi Cal2 1000cc and it is a low rpm high torque unit. I think it is a perfect match for a light car. First gear is not a problem, you just have to get used to it. Here is a gear ratio chart showing rpm per mph. Interstate speed at 4500 rpm.
    gear ratios.png
     
    Ned Ludd likes this.
  3. Please allow a reluctant but very interested prospective builder of a three wheel "car" to respond. Given the collective past half dozen or so responses to the gearing, driven RPM and torque requirements of a prospect envisioned by the original posting, I must offer what seems an obvious answer to me. The Honda Goldwing 1500, and newer if one pleases to further overkill the answer. This is a vehicle that has about a 900# curb weight, shaft driven (and therefore easily/-er redesigned into a small light car or a Reverse Trike) whose motor puts out 100-ish HP and 100-ish Ft/lbs torque at 4500 RPM and a reverse gear to boot. All that sounds like the making of the answers to the above technical issues of a Light Vehicle. Additionally, add that it is a popular, mass produced, and reliable option with a positive cost benefit when compared to a Motor Guzzi et al. Translation: Cheaper and easier to build.
    I can't assume the title of Hot Rodder but I think it might represent Ned's quote " extremely light cars out of a hot-rodder's mindset."
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2021
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  4. Ned Ludd
    Joined: May 15, 2009
    Posts: 5,025

    Ned Ludd
    Member

    You might have seen this post: https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/lets-talk-cyclecars.226791/page-361#post-12567622

    I replied at the time that I'd even considered a four-cylinder GL for my Morris Minor, even though that is a step or two up in weight.
     
  5. I've gone thru this thread top to bottom and should remember it given it's level of relevance but....(self deprecating humor goes here), as an aid to the Lament as to how off course this has gone from it's original inception, a cure I think could be an equal measure of your quote about Hot Rodder mindset, Dave's design intent and some of that newly arisen Steam Punk Design. That outta give the creative juices a new lease on this Cycle Car thread's life. (See attached if it took.)
     

    Attached Files:

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  6. noboD
    Joined: Jan 29, 2004
    Posts: 8,458

    noboD
    Member

    Regardless if the thread is not what was originally intended it wouldn't have 2.3 million views if it wasn't popular.
     
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  7. Kume
    Joined: Jan 23, 2010
    Posts: 980

    Kume
    Member

  8. fredvv44
    Joined: Dec 11, 2013
    Posts: 620

    fredvv44
    Member

  9. stude54ht
    Joined: Dec 30, 2007
    Posts: 973

    stude54ht
    Member
    from Spokane WA

  10. noboD
    Joined: Jan 29, 2004
    Posts: 8,458

    noboD
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  11. SR100
    Joined: Nov 26, 2013
    Posts: 1,130

    SR100
    Member

    This might be the Red Devil of Californian driver Walter Gossman. (If the pic was taken on orthochromatic film, a red car would appear black.) This appears to have been taken during practice for the 1914 Tacoma cyclecar race.
    I was quite taken by the no. 22 car in the background. Here's a view of (some of) the entrants of the Tacoma race:
    [​IMG]
    I believe the description on the Tacoma library's site is wrong about the no.22:
    "The Tacoma Speedway had a special treat in store for its fans on Labor Day 1914, the first 'cycle car' race to be held north of California. Cycle cars were built with motorcycle engines and were designed, for the most part, by their junior drivers. Three races would be held, a ten mile dash, a ten mile free for all (featuring the losers in the first race) and a 40 mile free for all, with a top prize of $250. Pictured in a horseshoe are, left to right, an unidentified car, the Mabel Normand's Keystone Theim driven by Shirley Williams, the Red Devil driven by Walter Gossman, the Pantages Bug driven by a Tacoma boy identified only as "Swift," unidentified car #3, unidentified, unidentified, Allan Bruce and his National, Harry Hartz and his #22 Indian and a "baby" Hudson partially built by Homer Loudenclos in Tacoma with Clarence Healy scheduled as pilot."
    An article in the Tacoma Times of August 5, 1914 said that the miniature Maxwell of Earnest Johnson had been entered in the Tacoma race as number 22.
    I found a pic of Hartz's car in front of a sponsor's business, the Vic-Mac Garage:
    upload_2021-3-31_4-28-20.jpeg

    In 1915, Hartz upgraded to a miniature Mercer:
    upload_2021-3-31_4-46-20.jpeg
     
  12. Not sure if this qualifies or not, but it has cycle type wheels and it looks to be very small...Amazing looking little thing.[​IMG]
     
    Lil'Alb, Hamtown Al and Ned Ludd like this.
  13. SR100
    Joined: Nov 26, 2013
    Posts: 1,130

    SR100
    Member

    Early Renault. Not quite a cyclecar, but in several ways its precursor.
     
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  14. fredvv44
    Joined: Dec 11, 2013
    Posts: 620

    fredvv44
    Member

    Beautiful but don't corner it too fast!!
     
  15. motoklas
    Joined: Dec 17, 2010
    Posts: 663

    motoklas
    Member
    from Bern, CH

    ========================
    Hello,
    As was said, this little, cute Renault wasn't officially a cyclecar, but the spirit is there. It belongs to the popular class of voiturettes, a class between later-named "Baby autos" and older quadrilettes... It was the smallest practical automobile especially in this class of "Doctors Coupés"...
    Well, it wasn't the only one, but the others were bigger and more comfortable, even luxurious...

    doctor's coupé, 1905, Cadillac-Osceola (1).jpg doctor's coupé, 1905, Cadillac-Osceola (2).jpg doctor's coupé, 1905, Cadillac-Osceola (3).jpg doctor's coupé, postage-stamp.jpg doctor's-coupé, 1899, Renault  Tyype-B (1).jpg doctor's-coupé, 1899, Renault  Tyype-B (2).jpg doctor's-coupé, 1903, oldsmobile (1).jpg doctor's-coupé, 1903, oldsmobile (2).jpg doctor's-coupé, 1903, oldsmobile (3).jpg

    Not an easy task to make a practical and elegant closed body (fix-head or drop-head coupè) on so small a chassis...
    Ciao, Zoran
     
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  16. If I build a 3-wheeler AND it's considered a motorcycle, is insurance (liability, not comprehensive) cheaper than car insurance?

    Might an enclosed car with a seat (versus a saddle) be considered a motorcycle? This example is a 1930s Framo Stromer.
    images (1).jpeg
     
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  17. banjeaux bob
    Joined: Aug 31, 2008
    Posts: 6,614

    banjeaux bob
    Member
    from alaska

    How about this one sarge?
     
  18. banjeaux bob
    Joined: Aug 31, 2008
    Posts: 6,614

    banjeaux bob
    Member
    from alaska

    ...along with 14 years of existence. There aren't many threads with a longer life or more views here on the HAMB.
     
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  19. Last edited: Apr 2, 2021
  20. fredvv44
    Joined: Dec 11, 2013
    Posts: 620

    fredvv44
    Member

    Some states are adopting the new "Autocycle" classification but it is still not considered a car. You don't have to wear a helmet. I insure three 3 wheelers at about 200 bucks each; a good bit cheaper that my cars.
     
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  21. Kume
    Joined: Jan 23, 2010
    Posts: 980

    Kume
    Member

    Finally got to see the NZ Jappic in the flesh at a car show in Auckland on Sunday.
    Stunning!
    20210411_100602.jpg 20210411_100721.jpg
     
  22. fredvv44
    Joined: Dec 11, 2013
    Posts: 620

    fredvv44
    Member

    He really did a magnificent job on that. I would have thought it would be finished by now.
     
  23. motoklas
    Joined: Dec 17, 2010
    Posts: 663

    motoklas
    Member
    from Bern, CH

    Hello, Davie and Fred!
    I think that this Jappic replica (better said true copy) is built by Garth, known to me from CycleKart Club where he presented it some years ago... As I know, he installed a BSA engine of 500 ccs, and four years ago his car was completed and running, and moved to the UK, ready for running at the VRM (Vintage Revival Montlhery) in Paris.
    As I know, Garth's replica was never used at any of the CycleKarts meetings and especially not at one of the races, often over rough, off-road terrain... (not quite good for that?)
    Here are some photos from the CycleKart Club register:
    1925_CycleKart_Great_Britain_Aluminium_Garth_T_000.jpg 1925_CycleKart_Great_Britain_Aluminium_Garth_T_004.jpg 1925_CycleKart_Great_Britain_Aluminium_Garth_T_005.jpg 1925_CycleKart_Great_Britain_Aluminium_Garth_T_006.jpg
    Jappic, Ade & NZ.jpg Jappic NZ.jpg


    There are more information, photos and films on:

    Jappic NZ - Home | Facebook

    --- ---
    We all know our member, great designer and constructor Ade, Adrian Warde who built another replica of the same Jappic record car!
    (before Jappic, he re-created cyclecar Lea Chater)


    http://www.flickr.com/photos/55288722@N00/
    --- ---
    Both replicas are magnificent achievement, especially that the original JAPIC was built as the one-off special (as I know) for speed-record braking in its class, maybe 350 ccm. So, it was ultralight, but not ultra-simple, quite opposite. It has an aerodynamic body (for two persons, at least just for rules) and wooden chassis bonded and twisted in 3-dimensions, with complicated steel reinforcements... All that represents its very well-known characteristics and is well-seen in photos. Besides that, its front axle was also very important for its style in general and details. As I know, steering is made of bicycle components or just made in a style, but light and simple for sure. It was made for high speeds over a relatively smooth surface without too much cornering and curves, tracks made of concrete or asphalt (Brooklands oval race track at the first place).

    Ciao, Zoran
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Apr 13, 2021
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  24. fredvv44
    Joined: Dec 11, 2013
    Posts: 620

    fredvv44
    Member

    Thanks for that update Zoran. I was not aware that there were 2 of these cars. I had followed Ade"s progress over the years and thought this was his. I got confused about the NZ location.
     
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  25. Rolfzoller
    Joined: Apr 30, 2014
    Posts: 395

    Rolfzoller
    Member

  26. banjeaux bob
    Joined: Aug 31, 2008
    Posts: 6,614

    banjeaux bob
    Member
    from alaska

     
  27. banjeaux bob
    Joined: Aug 31, 2008
    Posts: 6,614

    banjeaux bob
    Member
    from alaska

    BNC body built from scratch 178949268_1187404931720145_3279031114144838581_n.jpg 178912765_1187404728386832_387796065942392428_n.jpg 178979556_1187404658386839_4978842335295151560_n.jpg 172173008_1187404815053490_1361215965152355958_n.jpg 178944980_1187405068386798_4571091554064681976_n.jpg 179071717_1187405035053468_1142338359354245407_n.jpg 178967190_1187404605053511_3334629436092150976_n.jpg 179087533_1187404535053518_393596387810515781_n.jpg 178372479_1187404525053519_1841965515170088588_n.jpg
     
  28. rwrj
    Joined: Jan 30, 2009
    Posts: 721

    rwrj
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from SW Ga

    Last edited: Apr 28, 2021
  29. noboD
    Joined: Jan 29, 2004
    Posts: 8,458

    noboD
    Member

    The color is perfect!
     
  30. banjeaux bob
    Joined: Aug 31, 2008
    Posts: 6,614

    banjeaux bob
    Member
    from alaska

    Welcome to the cyclecar page RWRJ!
    Only the images not much text on the build process. There were more pictures. I just posted enough for folks to get the idea. I think if you post too many people loose interest. There were comments criticizing the builder for not restoring it to the correct body style for the chassis. He posted a picture of what a previous owner had done. This was a great alternative to the butchery that he started with. Fabulous workmanship!
     
    64 DODGE 440 likes this.

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