I'm thinking ahead to my next project, a Model A Coupe I have that will need replacement panels. I'm guessing the first step will need to be to get it bolted down on a good, straight frame, in this case a Model A frame. Once door and trunk alignment are good I believe the next step would be to very well brace the inside of the body to hold alignment during repairs. Providing that's a good plan so far, is there a particular order the might be advisable to replace/repair various panels? Also curious if after the body is all braced would it be OK to move the body to a nice, solid roll-around body stand/cradle that I have, mostly for convenience and working around it in my shop? The body seems quite solid but has had patch panels done very poorly (understatement) in the past, and I plan to repair the botched up work with new patch panels I already have. The bad areas are: 1) Lower quarters between door and rear fender well (both sides). 2) Rear fender wells (both sides). 3) Rear body corners (again, both sides). 4 Panel below deck lid. My plan is to do a typical step to the rear of the Model A frame, maybe just the depth of the frame rail but maybe about 2" more than that to get the car lower. That will require re-work of the subrails, which are bad anyway by the rear body mounts. Would that repair be best to do during the wheel well replacement and should the fabricated, stepped subrail be welded to the inside of the wheel well? I don't have any plan to lower the car so much though that it would require a notch in the wheel well for the rear axle. Maybe my questions are just the tip of the iceberg for such repairs but that's what I have for now. FWIW, I'm a competent fabricator with MIG and TIG capabilities and have done a little bit of body work patching but nothing this major. I'm thinking these repairs should be done first, but I would also like to eventually take about 3" out of the top, providing I have any motivation left after all of the other work. Thanks, in advance, for tips, suggestions and advice. Lynn
Do the frame first. Put the kickup in it and make sure it is flat on the tip, straight not twisted. You can do the body on your cradle if it is solid and flat. Do the subrails next carefully aligning them before welding. Replace one panel at a time leaving the others untouched so you can align your patch properly as you go. Have fun on those corners as they are notorious for requiring surgery to make them fit. I noticed you didn't mention the lower cowl requiring a patch. Better look again as that area is always gone.
Ol' Blue, thanks for the reply and advice. The lower cowl seems pretty solid, but I'll certainly check it too. I'm pleased that my thinking on the order if events was pretty much in order. I still do have a question on the interface of the rear subrail and the wheel well section. If I understand correctly, the lower lip of the wheel well repair panel would typically get bent to a 180 degree underneath the subrail and then tacked in? But, with the rear subrail being raised 2" or more for the kick up of a modified frame just how is that area finished and attached since the wheelwell panel would be lower than the subrail? Does one just make the outer "leg" of the subrail channel long enough to reach down to the bottom of the wheelwell where it was as stock? I haven't checked the gauge of the subrail material but I'm guessing it's 16 Ga., or would 18 Ga. suffice? Any description or photos of how that area is built and finished would be helpful. Maybe I'm overthinking this whole process, but I usually try to have the entire plan of what I'm doing firm in my mind before cutting anything. I'll probably be a real basketcase if I decide to chop the top too, but I'll do some more research and develop a plan on that later. Thanks. Lynn
There is confusion among builders around finishing the bottom edge of the wheelwell. Many people will fold the bottom of the wheelwell 180 deg. around as you say but I don't think that is correct. When you do it that way you create a place for water to enter and sit...not good. When I did mine I left the bottom edge at 90 deg. to strengthen the bottom edge and to let water run off without being trapped. I used a couple of spot welds to fasten the wheelwell bottom to the subframe. You don't need to extend the subframe down. The gauge of the subframe is thicker than 18 gauge. Check thickness around the front of the subframe. Usually the subframe is good at the front where all the oil and grease will preserve it and rusted out at the rear. Some of the suppliers sell the back half of the subframe. I used one of those. Sorry, can't do pictures.
Ol' Blue....Thanks for the additional info and suggestions. I'm following what you're suggesting and it all sounds good. I'll just have to go to "storage", take another close careful look at the areas involved on my car to visualize the plan. I certainly agree the 180 bend is just begging for rust. Isn't that the way they were originally built though? If it is that certainly explains why the wheelwell area is almost always rusted out on Model A's. You'd think Ford would have considered we'd still be building these cars 90 years later. I'll also get my copy of Tardel's A-V8 book out again to check for photos. I think there are a couple photos about modifications to the frame and subframe but don't think it really has any photos or info that goes into a lot of detail. I just want to do the modifications in a way that's been the norm over the years and not some abomination that I come up with. Maybe someone here took photos when they were repairing/rebuilding the subframe and wheelwell area and doing a stepped frame on their Model A? Thanks! Lynn
The bottom of the wheel well area was originally wrapped over 180. I removed what was left of original panels and they were like that. On my replacements, I trimmed the 90 off and only left about 1/16th of an inch and plug welded the face on the outside. Then soaked the seam from the backside with paint. Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
If I was going to build it I'd step the rear of the frame the height of the wood block. Then the ends of the rear crossmember would fit up into the stock subrail, with only a little bit of the inner flange of the subrail removed. You would keep all the stock body dimension, most of the integrity, and not have a puzzle to put back together. Then after the frame was modified, and the subrail trimmed and any damage restored, I would mount the body solid and shim to make the doors and trunk fit like you originally said. But, I would do ALL the patches and the chop top with the body still mounted to that frame. Just think, if you spring the body only a quarter of an inch when you remove it and put it on a cart, then weld all your patches on there and lock that shape in, can you live with it being a quarter inch off in maybe the most obvious place? How about if the beltline doesn't line up anymore after you put it back on the frame? What if the decklid opening isn't square and opposite corners scrape? Truth be told, the bare frame only sticks out the front of the car a few feet. Doesn't take up that much more room. Just lay a piece of plywood over it and it becomes a great table to lay tools and parts as you do the patching. I am currently doing this exact thing to a 32 coupe body. The rough body is mounted solid to the complete frame as I do all patches, and I know all the body fit and gaps will be the same later when the car is finished. As for the wrap around on the lower flange, I had a similar thing on a 26 T project. I replicated the Ford flange exactly, but I drilled a few holes straight down in the bottom of that flange to let any water drain. I would highly recommend epoxy priming the clean and bare subrail before putting on the patch, and flooding the area with primer and paint after assembly.
I was away from my computer for about 1 1/2 days but just wanted to say I appreciate the replies. alchemy....I'm going to take a close look at a couple things on my Model A Coupe in question and might send a PM or call you if that's OK. My questions primarily are in regard to the height of a rear step and what I have in mind for the stance/ride height of the car. Here's a photo of "cruzer"'s car (don't know if he's s till on here), and another Model A Coupe (sorry but I don't know who owns it to give credit) that both have the type of stance I'd be working toward. Lynn
Blue one has “Rolling Bones” style front suspension...low in the front...great stance. See cruzr below: https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/rolling-bones-front-end-on-a-model-a.529174/
You're absolutely correct. Someone here, and ufortunately I've forgotten who it was, hooked me up and I've talked with cruzr on the phone. He was kind enough to send additional photos of the car, a bit of info, and scans from a magazine article feature. Unfortunately, none of the photos really show the detail of what was done for the "rolling bones" frontend, in particular no good photo of the front crossmember. I can't recall if he said it was kept to stock 103" Model A wheelbase by building a pretty flat front crossmember and moving it back a bit, or if the wheelbase was actually stretched a couple inches. By the hood, it looks like it's still in the stock Model A position. He did send a sketch of the rear frame kickup and think it's a total of 4". I took another good look at my "waiting" '30 Coupe this afternoon. I just have to weigh how much time I'm willing to spend doing body work. I enjoy fabrication and mechanical stuff and consider myself pretty good at it, but bodywork.....um...not so much. That all makes for a tough "go-no go" decision on a future build. I've been kicking a couple other potential next-projects around in my head. Probably just need to finish up the project I have going on and think about the next one a while longer. Trouble is I have this 2nd Model A Coupe just sitting here waiting and tempting me!! Lynn
The best way to replicate the stance shown in a favorite photo of a car is to draw some reference lines on it and see how you can get your parts in those same locations. Draw a line along the bottom edge of the body's rocker, and see how far off the center of the wheel is. Maybe they are in line. Then you just need to set up your chassis to give you that ride height. Changing up your springs and suspension can get you the ride height you wish, up to a point. But maybe you need to kick the frame for that last couple inches. This summer find some similar A's and crawl under them to see how they set up their spring. Measure how much kick they have, or how much arch the spring has over the axle centerline. There is no "standard". Make sure to count how many leaves their spring has. Also ask how the car rides, as maybe the owner wishes he'd have a higher arch to the spring for a softer ride.
Thanks, as always, alchemy. I appreciate your suggestions and experience. Some time I'm tempted to just PM you right away instead of posting threads asking for guidance. The more I get into building a hot rod I realize just how little I know. Looking at favorite cars as a whole just doesn't get into the details of what it takes to get them where they are! Lynn
There are a bunch of builds here, this one is currently being done and may help answer some of your concerns. The guy is making great progress and built a stand for the body. https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum...l-a-roadster-av8-hotrod-build-thread.1053230/
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