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Projects 33 3 Window Coupe

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by pennafxu, Mar 4, 2021.

  1. pennafxu
    Joined: Aug 20, 2010
    Posts: 2,234

    pennafxu
    Member
    from Kentucky

    IMG_1463.JPG IMG_1464.JPG IMG_1465.JPG
    Frame rails came in today...


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  2. pennafxu
    Joined: Aug 20, 2010
    Posts: 2,234

    pennafxu
    Member
    from Kentucky

    IMG_1466.JPG IMG_1467.JPG IMG_1468.JPG IMG_1469.JPG
    Chrome vee bar to set up the dimensions of the frame. I have a rear chrome bar and suspension crossmember coming from Pete and jakes to finish out the perimeter dimensions. I can then start working on a sub floor assembly to mount the “body” to, or at least start piecing it back together as I have very little reference points. I will also be ordering a tubular crossmember. I will be welding up the boxing plates this weekend.


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  3. rusty valley
    Joined: Oct 25, 2014
    Posts: 3,883

    rusty valley
    Member

    I am jealous of the new rails, i have always wanted to start with some clean new rails, maybe next time. Not a fan of those V shaped things, but, opinions are like assholes, we all have one. I get it, they serve a purpose , protect the god awful expensive grill, my coupe may get some home made nerf bar configuration someday. Now, to the point, i'm not sure i would consider an aftermarket front and rear spreader bar the basis to use as the frame dementions. You're car being of the "much assembly required" type, I would think a new complete floor assembly and the numbers off the wescot sight would be how to set up a new frame
     
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  4. pennafxu
    Joined: Aug 20, 2010
    Posts: 2,234

    pennafxu
    Member
    from Kentucky

    I’m actually with you on the spreader bar... I just need something to get some form. I can always yank it... yes I agree on the westcott drawing. That’s my first post. I can start at the firewall and go backwards... thoughts?


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  5. alchemy
    Joined: Sep 27, 2002
    Posts: 20,406

    alchemy
    Member

    What kind of jig are you using to hold the chassis parts as you weld?
     
  6. pennafxu
    Joined: Aug 20, 2010
    Posts: 2,234

    pennafxu
    Member
    from Kentucky

    It’s a large braced mobile wooden dolly with Simpson ties and steel. Pictures to follow. I need to use the westcott diagram to figure out where to place the spacers.

    Question? What is the consensus on channeling this thing?? That will determine how I go about creating my subfloor...

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    Last edited: Mar 26, 2021
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  7. rusty valley
    Joined: Oct 25, 2014
    Posts: 3,883

    rusty valley
    Member

    you got a new floor pan?
     
  8. pennafxu
    Joined: Aug 20, 2010
    Posts: 2,234

    pennafxu
    Member
    from Kentucky

    I’m gonna build one. I just can’t justify $2200 for some metal sheet and 1x2 steel pipe. I will follow the frame rails from the firewall back. I will need help deciphering that diagram though!


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    Last edited: Mar 26, 2021
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  9. pennafxu
    Joined: Aug 20, 2010
    Posts: 2,234

    pennafxu
    Member
    from Kentucky

    IMG_1478.JPG IMG_1479.JPG IMG_1476.JPG IMG_1477.JPG
    Any advice on removing this rust? :(


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  10. Aaron D.
    Joined: Oct 27, 2015
    Posts: 1,037

    Aaron D.
    Member

    If you want to be careful, 220 wet and dry with wd40 by hand. More aggressive, softer wire wheel on a battery drill.
     
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  11. If it was me, which it ain't, and my block, which it ain't, I'd strip it completely down, hit it all over with oven cleaner then pressure wash to degrease it (pressure wash all water passages while you're at it), then find a big enough vessel (poly garbage can?) to set it in. Fully cover it with acetic acid (vinegar) or citric acid, and let it set for a couple days. Pull it out and repeat the pressure wash in and out, repeat as needed.
    JMHO
     
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  12. j hansen
    Joined: Dec 22, 2012
    Posts: 5,207

    j hansen
    Member

    This is the result after 24 hours in citric acid. IMG_8607.JPG IMG_8609.JPG IMG_8606.jpeg IMG_8608.JPG
     
  13. pennafxu
    Joined: Aug 20, 2010
    Posts: 2,234

    pennafxu
    Member
    from Kentucky

    IMG_1485.JPG
    Crank pulley bolts came in... hopefully will get some purchase today


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  14. pennafxu
    Joined: Aug 20, 2010
    Posts: 2,234

    pennafxu
    Member
    from Kentucky

    IMG_1488.JPG
    Got the crank pulley bolt installed


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  15. pennafxu
    Joined: Aug 20, 2010
    Posts: 2,234

    pennafxu
    Member
    from Kentucky

    IMG_1486.JPG IMG_1487.JPG
    I was able to remove 2 pistons


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  16. rusty valley
    Joined: Oct 25, 2014
    Posts: 3,883

    rusty valley
    Member

    If you are using the crank bolt to try and turn the stuck motor, i would be worried it could break. takes a lot of violence to play with stuck motors. I like to have the Flywheel on, and use the ring gear teeth and a pry bar against a bolt in the block. how stuck were the 2 you got out?
     
  17. pennafxu
    Joined: Aug 20, 2010
    Posts: 2,234

    pennafxu
    Member
    from Kentucky

    They went easy... the others are STUCK... they won’t budge... I’m going to flip the engine around and do that. I will need a heat wrench for sure...


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  18. rusty valley
    Joined: Oct 25, 2014
    Posts: 3,883

    rusty valley
    Member

    What ya gonna heat? heat the pistons they will get bigger, heat the cylinder wall it may crack
     
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  19. pennafxu
    Joined: Aug 20, 2010
    Posts: 2,234

    pennafxu
    Member
    from Kentucky

    Carefully heat the block... the pistons should dissipate the heat quicker. The block should maintain the heat and hopefully I can get some purchase. The combustion chamber gets very hot during internal combustion anyway so I will use a temperature gun to track progress.


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  20. rusty valley
    Joined: Oct 25, 2014
    Posts: 3,883

    rusty valley
    Member

    There are probably a million theory's on fighting stuck motors, i am not the czar, but lets talk about it. my first thought is its the rings that are stuck, not the pistons. So, heating heating the pistons will do nothing, and again, trying to heat the block, or cylinders enough to get expansion is risking cracking the cylinders. Most of my life i would have said to pound it with a hardwood board from the bottom, then pound again on top to get one piston broke free. However, if you follow Marts garage he recently broke a block doing this, and others too. one thing I forgot on my previous post, the crank bolt only allows you violence in one direction. Go backwards, you loosen the bolt. I believe jarring it back and forth is the key, and even if you have to weld up a fixture to mount onto 2 bellhousing bolt holes, with a hole or a shoulder to pry against will be a device to rock it back and fourth. first and most important would be patience. soak the shit out of it. maybe some heat would help penetrating oil get deeper to the job, but I dont think you are going to expand anything like fighting a stuck nut without cracking the block. Maybe dump some hot oil on the piston? I have also used an air hammer to vibrate the operation in hopes that the oil will get down into where it needs to go. The air hammer wont necessarily move the piston, just shake it to get oil into the rings. And yes, the combustion chamber gets hot, but it heats up slowly, and cools down slowly, thats what cast iron likes.
     
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  21. pennafxu
    Joined: Aug 20, 2010
    Posts: 2,234

    pennafxu
    Member
    from Kentucky

    What about drilling the pistons on 4 corners to relieve pressure?


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  22. rusty valley
    Joined: Oct 25, 2014
    Posts: 3,883

    rusty valley
    Member

    What pressure? from heat expansion? ring pressure is irrelevant, its the bond of rust between the cast iron rings, and the cast iron block that is stuck
     
  23. pennafxu
    Joined: Aug 20, 2010
    Posts: 2,234

    pennafxu
    Member
    from Kentucky

    I guess I mean to release the bond... and basically cut the the pistons out


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  24. rusty valley
    Joined: Oct 25, 2014
    Posts: 3,883

    rusty valley
    Member

    I tried once to use a big hole saw and cut the tops off. bad deal. Aluminum plugs up the saw badly, and you really only get to the pin, and the boss thats left underneath is quite strong yet, hard to break without wrecking the rod or the block. really, its best if patience and minimal violence is used. i'm goin to bed. best wishes
     
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  25. rusty valley
    Joined: Oct 25, 2014
    Posts: 3,883

    rusty valley
    Member

    One more comment, stuck motors is a common thing in our world, i am surprised no one else has a comment. Perhaps @Mart will speak up if i give him a nudge
     
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  26. Go to your local Tractor Supply or Farm supply store and buy a gallon of Molasses. Level the block and fill the cylinders with a molasses and water solution. Let it soak for a bit and pour out the molasses and repeat. The molasses can stink to high hell but it is not caustic and it works. It is a slow process. The molasses will dissolve the rust and begin to eat the pistons. This will remove the rust on cylinder walls and make the pistons smaller, hopefully loosening the pistons for removal. Molasses eats aluminum!!!

    Do some research on Molasses rust removal
     
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2021
  27. alchemy
    Joined: Sep 27, 2002
    Posts: 20,406

    alchemy
    Member

    If you want to get caustic, how about using muriatic acid? Find it in the brick and mortar section of the hardware store. It eats rust, and might eat the aluminum too. Definitely need to catch all that may leak through, and be ready to rinse clean and neutralize the engine parts. It is very serious stuff. One strong wiff might make you grow a tail.
     
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  28. I have successfully broke free a bunch of engines using a mix of 50 / 50 ATF and Acetone. i level the block for the bank over cylinders im working and fill the bore up with the 50 / 50 mix. Check it in a couple hours to see if it is running down and around the piston, if it is, ill try and seal up the back side of the piston to the cylinder wall with modeling clay, then fill back up. let it soak for a day or so, then try to drive them out from the back side using a large hardwood dowel or brass drift. It take a while but does work. I've also done the whole block deal (pistons and all) in a trash can filled with a molasses mix and let soak for about a week. that block ended up having a crack in it, but the Merc crank that was in it just got a clean up and polish and was good to go. if you do the Molasses pressure wash the block and get all the grease and oil off that you can so that the mix can do its work.
     
  29. Dick Stevens
    Joined: Aug 7, 2012
    Posts: 3,710

    Dick Stevens
    Member

    Muriatic acid most definitely eats aluminum, violently, I would hesitate using it on this as it seems to affect steel and makes it brittle! At least it did to drill bits that were cleaned of aluminum stuck on the bits at the manufacturing plant I worked at!
     
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  30. pennafxu
    Joined: Aug 20, 2010
    Posts: 2,234

    pennafxu
    Member
    from Kentucky

    Thank you for all the replies... The more I read I fear that patience will be the better part of valor here... I don't even want to start on that other block :confused:
    I guess while this is soaking in whatever primordial soup I go with I will be working on the frame in the interim... Any thoughts of putting in fluid from the bottom end?
     
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