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Technical What is this rod in the coolant passage?

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by shivasdad, Mar 25, 2021.

  1. shivasdad
    Joined: May 27, 2007
    Posts: 584

    shivasdad
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Texas

    I've got another quiz for the great and illustrious HAMB crowd. I'm working on a 1948 Pontiac Silver Streak Torpedo. 239 Flathead six with a Hydramatic trans. The car is an old restoration that sat in storage for probably 20 years and I'm going through all the usual suspects to get it up and running. I pulled the radiator hoses because the springs were rusted and collapsed inside, so I thought I'd pull the thermostat and test/replace it if necessary. It opened right up in boiling water, so it will go back in.

    In the head, there is a rod approximately 1/4" diameter and longer than will come out of the water neck hole. It moves freely and I can't see why it would be there. I think I could bend and get it out if necessary with some vise grips and channel locks. Here are the pictures. IMG_20210325_115921_419.jpg IMG_20210325_120008_558.jpg I can move it side to side and back and forth, and the length goes back at least a foot. My helper and I have two theories;
    a. it was part of the casting procedure and didn't get removed or
    b. it's some sort of anti corrosion jiggler that Pontiac came up with.
    I don't know enough about the casting process that it might have held the cores in place or something. Anyway, it's just a curiosity and I'm going to remove it before I put the thermostat back in unless someone tells me it's a really important design feature in that engine. Thanks in advance.
     
  2. While I'm not 100% sure, I was told years ago by someone smarter than me that it was there for the casting of the cyl head and never intended to be removed. I've seen similar in other castings and just left them alone.
     
    302GMC likes this.
  3. From the photos and your description, it seems like it could be a push rod that got in there somehow.
    But you could be right and it's leftover from the casting process. Maybe it's a temporary 'reinforcement' for a thin bridge of the sand mold.
     
  4. Boryca
    Joined: Jul 18, 2011
    Posts: 709

    Boryca
    Member
    from Detroit

    Long-lasting yet sacrificial anode?
     
    Oilguy likes this.

  5. Casting process,,,,,it can be removed by bending it a little at a time and pulling it out .
    Those were put into the sand core to reinforce it before the pour .
    The cores were sometimes using a lot of resin to keep them in one piece,,,,sometimes other devices were used .
    Seems the resin worked better,,,,but I’m sure it cost a little more .

    Tommy
     
    302GMC and wicarnut like this.
  6. chessterd5
    Joined: May 26, 2013
    Posts: 902

    chessterd5
    Member
    from u.s.a.

    Andy Bernbaum auto parts
    93 Border street
    West Newton, Mass. 02465
    1- 617- 244- 1118
    www.oldmoparts.com
    These people specialize in old Plymouth parts. Will probably be able to help with any number of questions. Good luck
     
  7. Except it's a Pontiac.

    Mick
     
    Budget36 and chessterd5 like this.
  8. chessterd5
    Joined: May 26, 2013
    Posts: 902

    chessterd5
    Member
    from u.s.a.

    Lol ain't dyslexia a bitch!
    I'm sorry, carry on.
     
  9. It’s good info though. Early Plymouth stuff can be hard to find.
     
    lothiandon1940 likes this.
  10. Rusty O'Toole
    Joined: Sep 17, 2006
    Posts: 9,657

    Rusty O'Toole
    Member

    I don't know what it is, but if it has been in there since 1948 and never caused a problem I would leave it .
     
  11. shivasdad
    Joined: May 27, 2007
    Posts: 584

    shivasdad
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Texas

    First off, thanks for all the quick responses. @Center of the Galaxie , @Rusty O'Toole (both Canadian) seem to think leaving it in place is cool. If I knew more of the history of the car, I might agree. The engine has great compression and ran for a few minutes after all the proper precautions, but there were second hand reports that it overheated. I think it got rebuilt, but I don't know if that was before or after the rebuild. I found used bearings in a box in the trunk.
    @The Shift Wizard it's about the diameter of a pushrod, but longer than any I've messed with. It's got to be a casting holder like you, and @Desoto291Hemi said. I think I'm going to inch it out because it's floating loose in there. I don't think it's a sacrificial anode @Boryca, it's not attached to ground except incidentally.
    @chessterd5 , don't worry, I've looked up Plymouth water pumps, fuel pumps, and other stuff all the while knowing that I'm working on a Pontiac. I knew about Bernbaum though, I've looked him up for parts on my personal '38 Dodge. It's all good info.

    Once again, thanks everyone. I'll post a picture when I get it pulled out. The original style thermostat is neat as hell too, I'll get a picture of that just so it's here.
     
    302GMC likes this.
  12. Glenn Thoreson
    Joined: Aug 13, 2010
    Posts: 925

    Glenn Thoreson
    Member
    from SW Wyoming

    Are you sure it's a rod and not a tube? Some cars of the era used water distribution tubes to enhance cooling of things like valve seats and such that were in danger of overheating. Does it fit into a hole in the front of the casting? If so, I would make sure it's in place and will stay there. In any event I would leave it there. I doubt it was meant to be removed and it likely won't hurt a thing.
     
  13. Core Wires.
    Think of them as "rebar" for the sand casting molds. It keeps the sand mold shapes from crumbling as the molten metal is poured.
    In the Shakeout room, they try to remove all the sand they can and the core wires that are easy, but many of the core reinforcement wires are too difficult to waste time on getting all of them.
    They do no harm.

    Sent from my SM-G981V using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
    ottoman and Boryca like this.
  14. shivasdad
    Joined: May 27, 2007
    Posts: 584

    shivasdad
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Texas

    Definitely not a tube, and the coolant distributing tube is in place in the block, @Glenn Thoreson . It's even made of brass and in good shape. Thanks for the solid info @dare-to-be-different . I still wanna get it out if I can.
     
  15. shivasdad
    Joined: May 27, 2007
    Posts: 584

    shivasdad
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Texas

    Here's a post to end up this used to be mystery. The rod was 16 inches long and it's cast iron, not mild steel that I assumed. I got some pliers and was ready to bend up the end and start pulling a whole rod out and it broke! I snagged the rest of it with a magnet and proceeded to pull it out piece by piece, 8 in total. In the middle was a little "stand" to use the rebar analogy. Only took a few minutes and I did a spark test on one and it looks like cast iron to me and my fabricator guy. So, lessons learned, and while it could have stayed there, I'm glad I pulled it out, just to know what it looked like. Since it's been there since 1948, I'm happy that it seems the coolant was serviced through the car's life because there is very little pitting on this rod to indicate corrosion. The inside of the head passage is clean as well. Here's some pics. IMG_20210326_100758_667.jpg IMG_20210326_100922_170.jpg IMG_20210326_100930_557.jpg
    Thanks for all the replies, just another example of the breadth and depth of knowledge in the crowdsource we know and love as the HAMB.
     
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  16. pirate
    Joined: Jun 29, 2006
    Posts: 1,024

    pirate
    Member
    from Alabama

    As others have said it is probably core wire used to reinforce the cores. Early on most cores were made in a process called “oil sand” the oil sand was forced into the core box but had very little strength until baked. These oil sand cores often had wire in them to prevent sagging/distortion during the baking/curing process. Oil sand cores are rarely used anymore because they are labor intensive and more expensive.

    More modern development of core making processes are Shell Cores which uses a resin that hardens the core with heat as it comes out of the core box ready to use. There are also several Air Set processes for making cores that involve using a resin coated sand that hardens in the core box or a gas is forced through resin coated sand to harden it. These cores can be made quickly and pretty much ready to use coming out of the core box.

    Usually the core wire was pulled out of passages of the casting in the cleaning room but I’m sure a lot was missed. The core wire was very soft and easily straightened out while pulling with a pair of pliers.
     
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  17. Rusty O'Toole
    Joined: Sep 17, 2006
    Posts: 9,657

    Rusty O'Toole
    Member

    Maybe it's a sprue, remains of cast iron that ran out of a vent in the casting process.
     

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