I got the fuel system put together, but every time I open the shutoff I have a fast leak between the inside line and the sediment bowl. The threads were clean and it’s tightened down pretty good. Am I supposed to use some kind of sealant? I thought fuel lines go together dry?
I’ve bought a number of parts thru Bratten’s very reputable place. Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
I took the line off and gave it a good look. The flare on the sediment bowl end is really uneven in all respects. There is obviously no way it would ever seal like this. Additionally, as it arrived, the line was too long - I adjusted it with my torch by putting an S bend in it to get it to the correct length. But the flare is just super fucked up. This came from Mike's. I'll give Bratten's a shot.
It looks like the end was cut off crooked before it was flared. I didn’t have it cranked down super tight (the marring on the fitting is from my wrench slipping off a few times thanks to the odd angle I was working at). It was as tight as the fitting on the shutoff side, which didn’t leak (and which isn’t distorted). I think this end was junk from the beginning. I have ordered an inside line from Bratton's. Hopefully this one is plug n play, because it cost a lot more than the one from Mike's.
If it was too long and the end is messed up (as shown, that's a YES), see if you can find someone local to cut off that end and re-flare it. I know you have said there is nobody local, but this is a common tool for mechanics to have. A six pack at the end of the day...
Someone probably has one - there is a guy up the road who builds 90s drag cars, he probably has one if I could ever catch him at home - but truth be told, I should not be in such a hurry. I'll just wait for the line from Bratton's to arrive, there is no shortage of other stuff I should be working on in the meantime. I still have yet to install the new anti rattle springs... just been too busy.
Just for future reference, the line should be softer than the nut and the inlet, meaning a slight shape difference can be resolved by a good tightening, which will form the tube and seal. This is why Stainless Steel tubing requires a whole different set of tools and rules, it's too hard. The big concern I see is in the second picture, where the line around the inside of the flare comes right up to the point where the edge of the tube is offset due to the poor cut.
Trev, When we spoke yesterday evening about this issue, we talked about what kind of flare you were dealing with. You mentioned you thought it was a single flare. This illustration shows the three different type flares you may encounter when working on automotive stuff. And with the older stuff, you probably wont see the "bubble" flare and rarely see the single flare. I have an old set of flaring tools that I will give you the next time I come over that way. They aren't the best in the world but will get you by in a pinch if you are patient and follow the procedures on how to do the double flare. Do some research and find out how to make the double flare, which is what you have. As mentioned, O'reillys probably has a loaner tool to get you fixed up without having to order a new line, unless your existing line will be too short after cutting off the bullshit flare on the end.
Double flares are not easy to do with the typical tool that you will probably find a O'reillys. I use a hydraulic flaring tool. A single flare, over time, will crack at the base of the flare. Can be used as a temporary fix only.
Trouble with it is— it’s too long on the shutoff side, not the sediment bowl side. The line is not symmetrical. If I cut off the flare on the sediment bowl side and re-flare it, it will be too short there unless I straighten the line and re-bend it further down, then it will probably crack or collapse because I don’t have a proper roller for putting a wide 90 degree arc in the line. The ten bucks isn’t worth the headache. I have already paid for a new line from Bratton’s so will just do other stuff til it arrives - my seat frame should be here today! I’ll hang on to this line as scrap and practice flaring on it, that way I can do it more than once and I won’t be relying on my first attempt at a flare not to suddenly start dripping fuel over the muffler.
Trev, I have borrowed a tool similar to this from the Oreilly's close to me. This is the set I'll give you the next time I come over to check out your project. The little disk shown in the second pic is what creates the double flare. There is a disk for each size line.. It helps fold the flare in on itself.
By the way, if you can find and use Nicopp lines, they are much easier to flare, and are every bit as reliable and sturdy as steel or SS lines. I think sometimes it is referred to as cunifer tubing. It is very easily flared, bent, manipulated. The most important part of the process of flaring that I have found is making sure the cut on the tubing is straight, clean and free of burrs. If all that is good, the flaring part usually goes without a hitch. A good sharp blade on the tubing cutters and a deburring tool assists with all that.
My local NAPA has a flaring tool kit that they loan out for free. All you do is pay a deposit, and you can have it for 24 hours. You get your deposit back when you return the set.
Lots of good info here, just to repeat one thing that happens to many (all) of us, make darn sure you put on the nut the right direction BEFORE flaring! A practice tube is a good idea! Trying to straighten and rebend a line will be frustrating. Keep working on the brakes and other stuff while the new line is coming. Plenty to do before that first drive.
found a "RIGID" flaring tool for $20 at a flee market, he took $15... it clamps at the tube area not the 2 outside edges like my 35 year old flaring tool...
The seat came in today. Unfortunately it seems the 28/29 seat is just a smidge wider and, wouldn't you know it, I have 28/29 cushions and wood. I think I have a lead on some 30/31 cushions at a reasonable price, so I'll chase that down and make my own wood frame. I took the sides off the hood. The car already looked good, but now it looks great! It's killing me that I can't take it for a spin just yet, but patience is a virtue or something like that.
A couple of tips when flairing: After cutting the tube, put it in the flaring clamp with the cut side of the tube just above flush with the BACK side of the clamp. Make sure the clamp halves are flush with each other (most clamps have a bit of play in the clamping slots). Then, using a file, carefully square the end of he tube, using the clamp as a guide/stop. De-burr the inside AND outside. Follow instructions for making the flair, BUT: DON'T crank the cone down tight! Stop just shy of flairing the Bejeezus out of it. This will allow a better form-fit when you tighten the tube on the fitting. Sneak up on getting it tight enough to prevent leaks. Flairing can be a pain in the ass, just go slow and don't get heavy-handed and you'll get good results.
Trevor, I have one of those nice lever action vise-mounted flare tools that give a perfect flare every time. It's a little hike, but if you want to come over to my place we can sort it out in a few minutes. I've been working on my fuel system as well and getting ready for the brake lines, so the tool is out and ready to go.
Thanks! The new fuel line came in from Brattons today and it is actually perfect. Side by side with the line from Mike's, it is clear that the Mike's line was like half an inch too long, and the flare looks much better on the Bratton's line. However, it still leaks. The fitting on the line from Mike's was at kind of an excessive angle due to the extra length (even though I tried to bring it in with the S-bends). It seems that it damaged the upper threads on the sediment bowl. I think I will try to save this with some teflon dope, but I will probably end up having to buy another sediment bowl. Joy!
The threads don't do the sealing, they apply pressure to the flare, which seals. Teflon tape won't fix a leak, since the threads are not the sealing surface. If it leaks at the threads, tape will just make the leak move to the area between the inside of the nut and the tubing. You can try to remove the bowl and line, clean all the surfaces, then tighten them together off the car to form the seal better.
@trevorsworth a similar thing happened on mine. Luckily I was able to re-shape the threads with a pick set, sandpaper and a little bit of finessing. A dab of copper anti-seize is helpful here!
It’s probably not kosher but I found a little fiber washer out of a carb kit that fit just inside the nut on the line, snugged it to the sediment bowl and bam! No leaks!
The sediment bowl is roached. I’m not sure what this thing is made of, maybe aluminum, but the threads are pretty much munched on the top. The new fitting won’t tighten down, it just slips off. I wasn’t really happy with it anyway, it leaked around the rim of the glass even with the brand new gasket in it and the nut they provided to secure it to the firewall was a folded sheet metal thing that couldn’t handle any torque so even with that tightened as much as the nut would survive, the bowl could rock back and forth, which would put stress on the fuel lines. I will probably just use the bowl as a shot glass and trash the rest. I won a nice restored original just now on ebay so I am done messing with cheap repro parts as far as the fuel system is concerned. It is the 28/29 cast iron bulb which most would probably say isn’t hot roddy but I would say it was $15 and don’t care.
In my opinion and from my experience, “hot roddy” is what ever works and that especially means Ford parts. You’re coming right along. Sent from my iPhone using H.A.M.B.
Just as an extra thought, when you get the new one, try soaking the gasket in a bit of gas, to let it swell a bit. The repops tend to be bad about this and not seal due to a slight mismatch, but getting the seal moist helps it seal against the surfaces better. An old used one hopefully will work better, but every little tip to get good results helps. And lube and tighten the fittings on both sides before installing as mentioned before. And cast iron is going to be better than the zymac or aluminum the repop is likely made of...
And don't put the Gorilla Grip on any of those fittings. Bump them up until they are snug, and then 1/32 to 1/16 of a turn or less to tighten. Sometimes if I "feel" a leak coming on, I will just bump it up tight, and then allow the fluid to flow through the line (whatever the fluid may be), check it for leaks, and then tighten it up ever so slightly. If it is leaking after bumping it up tight, inspect both sides of the connection for distortion AGAIN, and then rinse and repeat. You will get it, just keep on keeping on and take your time and think things through.... Trevor, you have come a long way since the first day I showed up to help you get that flathead on a stand and running.....I am impressed with your tenacity and dedication to get what you want! I enjoy helping you and sharing with you what limited knowledge I have . I want to drive that car around the block just once, when its up and running! Will be a blast!
Thanks Robin. I still feel clueless when I'm out there but I guess I'm doing alright so far, I'd still have a boat anchor sitting on a tire if not for you and so many others on the HAMB though. You're more than welcome to take it around the block as many times as you want! Tomorrow I'm hoping to hear back from a fellow with a stash of coupe parts, including a full set of glass, window regulators, and more fiddly bits I'll need. As soon as this thing is moving and stopping I want to get it wired up so I've been playing with ideas for mounting the headlights. Does anyone have a custom control panel in their A with the cowl tank? I was thinking I'd like to have dash controls - master battery, ignition, fuel pump (it will get one eventually), lights, maybe a starter button - because frankly I'm a millennial and floor controls seem goofy and error prone to me. A race car or fighter plane style switch panel tastefully affixed somewhere would be cool... overhead, maybe?
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