Hello, 1927 Ford Phaeton. Trying to reinstall these wire wheels and I’m running into an issue. I have once removed and reinstalled these wheels with no major issues. Recently put new tires on all 4 wheels. Front are 16x4.5 I think and went on fine. When they fit right the wheel hub (?) fits exactly inside the indent of the buick brake. But this time for some reason, one of the rear wheels which are 16x7.5 does not want to slide in all the way against the brake. As you can see in the pics, it’s a tight fit with the fins and the well of the wheel. It seems that is what is happening, the fins are hitting the inside of the wheel and preventing it from going all the way back. I have tried the one wheel I am having issues on both sides and also rotate it to try all the different holes. No luck. I tried tightening the nuts to force it back but it doesn’t budge. Could somehow the wheel shape could’ve been affected by putting tires on it??? The wheel is not perfectly circular it seems. Odd because these wheels were on all of last year and I had no issues installing them after I painted them. It seems some of the fins were filed down a little bit at some point (I didn’t build this car). I am trying to avoid filing fins if possible. Thoughts? KY Jelly?????? Sent from my iPhone using H.A.M.B.
I have the same drums, but with Halibrand rims, they just fit without touching the rim. From what i see, these wheels hat previously a clearance issiue. At least one fin has alredy broke off, due to brute force applied, when pulling the rim onto the drums. This way you'll never get these Wheels running true and ontop, you put your self and the rod on danger, once you lose a wheel.... The person who bodged this, didn't understand a thing... There is no other way out, but to file down the castaluminium finns equaly to get enough clearance ( if you must do it your self ) , better still, find someone with a large lathe to mill them perfectly concentric, otherwise it might happen that you get bad vibrations from unbalanced drums. Also keep in mind that wirewheels are constantly flexing between hub and outer rim, unlike steel or sturdy alloy rims. therefore you need enough clearance. Do the effort for the sake of safety and much better driving experiance.
Funny, on your pic, those are the tired that were on these wheels before. We have another car with 18” Halibrands with the same brakes but the wheel is much narrower so the brake sticks out. I wonder if something changed on the wheel. It’s puzzling me. This car went from the East Coast to Bonneville and back on those wheels, and I drove it last year with the same wheels and tires, just painted a different colors. And I was able to mount them no problem before. But it does seem like this particular wheel is touching the fins which I agree is not a great thing. Thanks. Sent from my iPhone using H.A.M.B.
The problem IMO is you need a support spacer/adapter 1 1/4" thick X 7" dia. You see the Ford wheel hub is recessed as it was designed for another application than yours. I had this very issue and had to have special spacer/adapters made. Don't forget that the spacer will need a support lip so the wheel flange sits flat(no space) -otherwise the holes for the lugs nuts will eventually crack.
I thought the same thing at first ,but look closer. There is a lot going on with that wheel. It's banded to widen the rim and then it looks like they cut the center out of a steel wheel and welded it into the center of the spoke one replacing the area where the lug holes are. Both mods would make me quite uncomfortable but I think it must have mostly corrected the spacing issue with the early Ford wire. It seems like what he is saying is that the outer hoop of the wheel is hitting on the Buick fins where you can see the paint rubbed off the band weld.
Deuce Lover didn't notice that the wheels have been heavily modded with new bolt surfaces (no worries about the old Ford offset mounting surface). I think your problem is a slight mismatch, enough that it might be just a 1/16" interference. Who knows why it interferes now and didn't before, but even a hair is too much. If you have tried every way possible, switching side for side, and clocking all different positions, it's either time for grinding the fins, or installing a spacer. Tire shops, Jegs, Summit, etc. all sell thin spacers. I bet a 1/8" spacer would be the answer to your problem. When you snug up the lug nuts, do you have another 1/8" of thread available so the spacer would fit in there? https://www.summitracing.com/parts/joe-38120
Those wheels are a lot cheaper than the drums. I would try a few different wheels before I started grinding fins. That one may just be out of spec.
I see what you mean alchemy but I still don't think without a spacer the mounting surface sits flat on the hub he is showing or doesn't appear that way to me. The spacer might be enough for the wheel to clear the fins.Speedway sells a 1 1/4 " thick spacer for $50 - might be worth a try.
I am thinking of trying just the smaller spacer, 1/4"? That might be enough. I don't want them sticking out too much. The guys putting the new tires on said one of the wheels wasn't perfectly round (maybe this one) but they didn't think it would be an issue at all. Of course one tire guy's opinion. https://www.speedwaymotors.com/Universal-Billet-Aluminum-Wheel-Spacer-1-4-Inch,3442.html Although not sure these would fit my bold pattern, pretty sure it's 5 x 5.5".
The more I look at it the more I think grinding down the front part of the fins a bit might be a better look. You don't see the fins at all in this setup (although I also have Steel wheels and probably much more visible there, can't recall). The way it was done, the ring of the wheel fits perfectly inside the circle indent of the drum brake, so there's no gap. If I use a spacer for mounting, now it would not touch the brake on the ring would 'float' and not touch the drum brake. Tough call. Here's a front wheel for reference. You see how nicely the wheel sits against the drum brake. Don't want to lose that. You can find buick brakes; can't make wheels like these again.
I had to turn a notch on my Buick drum fins to allow my 15x8.5 Appliance mags to fit without that same interference.
ZZ29, didn't mean to step on your toes. Am i right that the spokes are welded instead of screw type ? I guess your tyre-guy didn't spinn the rim without a tyre, to see if the rim it self is out and how much ? If they are welded, there is a possability to seek help of a real knowledge welder, wo knows about welding correction. I have discussed your problem with a good friend who knows his stuff about welding correction, no need to repaint the whole rim, if done right. just some touching up. Are the rims get concentric by the lugnuts or by the hub ? If by lugnut, do not tighten one nut fully to end spec, then the other, but in several steps, all the same ammount. I experianced that uneaven tightening, this will lead to disort the rim, which might cause your problem ? are the fins touch all arrount the rim ? I had my hubs in the lathe milled, since there was a uneaven casted lifp that caused missalignement . In my country spacers are a no go, anyhow i would take the tyre off again and check all mesurements and spinn this rim without a tyre, to see how much axial and radial run out / wobble there is. Also check if all drums are the same dimension, or are uneaven casted. be sure to have the worst rims on the back, as all uneaven running wheels is causing vibration in the steeringwheel, untrue drums ad to that. Before grinding all that is. If you want to grind your self, you can build up a sturdy rig, where you can attach a wheelgrinder in a adjusted angle and diameter respective to the drum, this way you can do it quite eaven arround the cirumference one fin after the other with less ellbowgrease.
Hey some of you guys, look at the wheel. He doesn't need an inch thick spacer. It's not an original wheel. It's had a new mounting surface welded into it which is offset more than the Ford originally had. I would lay my bet that an 1/8" spacer would do the trick. I can guarandamntee that Buick finned drums are a rough casting. I have recently worked on a dozen of them and very few had a fine finish to them. We found some were a quarter inch different than others in the pile. If that turns out to be the space that ZZ needs, it's totally understandable. If it was my car I'd do the spacer first. Or, second option I'd hold the wheel up tight, then pull it off and see where the shiney spot is on the fins. Grind a little off those fins and try again. Maybe grind just a hair past clear so if the wheel flexes it won't contact the fin again.
Ok. Update here from idiot land. I figured by looking at photos from last year which wheel was on which side (both are rear wheels we’re discussing). So this wheel with the issue was on the right/passenger side. I looked closely at the drum and some of the fins had been ground already. Of course I don’t know what position the wheel was on before. So I out the wheel on and off trying to find the best fit. Saw the fins that where perhaps touching and marked them and then did some grinding. Then put back on and still not great. Then ground a little more and not really better. I then decided to put two lugnuts on, tighten them by hand, opposite spots to push the wheel as far back. To my bafflement, it doesn’t look like any of the fins are touching. And it looks like the wheel plate where the holes are seems to be touching or almost touching the drum brake. It perhaps seems that on this wheel he didn’t quite get it setup at well as the other wheel and the offset is not the same so the wheel ring I keep going on about just never touches the drumbrake? These are welded spokes (was that the question?), and I know for a fact, as you all know because you know your stuff, that they have been altered heavily (widened as well) to use the 5 bolt like a steel wheel. No the tire guy didn’t rotate the wheel with no tire. He put the tire on and then balanced it. When I put the lugnut on is done by hand, tightening criss cross pattern slowly. Then because the damn plate is too far in, I cannot use any type of socket or tire changing tool. I have to use a 1” open ended wrench at an angle and slowly tighten the lugnuts all the way around. A royal pain. So I am slightly stumped. I don’t think a spacer would solve anything. And I guess if the plate where the holes for the lugnuts is tight against the drum, then it’s probably ok?? My hotrod guy is like an hour away. Gotta sleep on this. Thank you all for your advice so far, love the HAMBERS. Sent from my iPhone using H.A.M.B.
I would throw those blue wheels in the garbage. I would find a set of 16" Ford steel wheels (F1) and be done. Here's a period argument. Finned Buick drums came out in the late 50s. Was a hot rod in 1960 really running around with finned Buick drums and early 30's wires?
I did. Same issue on both which is why I am starting to think the wheels are not the same, therefore they don’t fit the same way. Sent from my iPhone using H.A.M.B.
Yeah I know. I have a set of steel wheels with tires as well. But I like the look of these wire wheels, even with the wrong period brakes. I mean the car has an 80s Big Block engine so I figured the heck with tradition. Sent from my iPhone using H.A.M.B.
Rereading your reply and after staring at the drum brakes it looks like they have a spacer on it already, maybe 0.5”. Looks permanent, no bolts visible. Since it now seems the wheel is already touching the spacer after my late night shenanigans, it looks like this wheel is just not the same as the other one. A way to make it fit the same, which I think you mentioned, would be to take it to a milling machine and reduce the spacer by 0.2 “ or like 5mm. But I think that’s a drastic solution. Sent from my iPhone using H.A.M.B.
When a guy tightens the lugnuts on an old Ford wire with the small hubcap opening. It's always going to be a tight reach. I find a long extension on my ratchet, and not pushing the socket down to the nut real tight is the key. When the bolt patterns is 5.5" it seems the extension will rub the edge of the hubcap hole a lot. By making the socket set on the upper edge of the nut until ready to put some torque to it makes the snugging job easier. I don't think you will get enough torque to be safe by using an open end wrench down in that hole.
I hesitated to even mention the "traditional aspect.". That's not why I would chunk those wheels.. They have had too much work done in my opinion. Welded wire, pieced together and banded. It's just too much. The fact that you are having problems just bolting them on. It's just too much. Like I said I would throw them away. I would not hang them on the wall lest I be tempted to use them. I would not sell them and pass the issue to someone else. My thing is not the tradition, it's the safety issue. Bolting a wheel on should be simple. Big powerful engine.....? This is even more reason to get a good solid set of wheels that fit instead of cobbled together "stuff".
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