Technical Why don't my turn signals flash off and on?

I posed this question over in the social forums and none of us can figure it out. So, I thought I'd try the main board. '54 Customline with 5.0/AOD combo. The car came with turn signals from the factory. New Painless harness with 12v conversion. 1157 bulbs. Headlights/park/tailights/brake lights all work. All turn signal lights will light up with one filament but they won't blink.
Pulled the flasher and the lower tang gets 12v. I also installed the second hazard flasher.



With the flasher installed I'm getting 12v on both sides with the turn signal lever in any of the three positions. That ain't right! The flasher only goes in one way so I pulled the flasher and ran jumper wires so I could switch polarity. Same thing. 12v on both sides. I also replaced the flasher. Same thing.
Here's my turn signal switch from the column.



According to the wiring diagram:
On the right side...
2nd terminal - ORG/BLU goes to the RR
3rd terminal - BLUE goes to flasher
4th terminal - GRN/ORG goes to LR
5th terminal - GRN goes to brake light switch
On the left side...
Top terminal - WHT/BLU goes to RF
Bottom terminal - GRN/WHT goes to LF

Here's where things change up a little. When wired this way when you hit the left turn signal, the right one lights up. When you hit the right turn signal, the left one lights up. So I swapped the 4 wires.
ORG/BLU is now LR
GRN/ORG is now RR
WHT/BLU is now LF
GRN/WHT is now RF
Every light now lights up as it should. But still no flashing.

This may be something. According to the diagram, there should be a GRN jumper wire connecting the 1st terminal to the 5th terminal. Everyone over on the social forums has that GRN jumper wire on their cars. You can see by the above pic......mine doesn't have it! The 1st terminal is completely open!
So, I soldered one in place....



Still no flashing. 12v from both sides of the flasher. I'm kinda at my wits end! Any ideas are greatly appreciated!

Here's the wiring diagram I used. It's for a '53 but should be the same......

 

Do you mean you get 12v on both of the terminals that connect to the flasher, when the flasher is not installed?

 

Verify your switch is working/wired correctly... Turn Signal Wiring How-to | The H.A.M.B. (jalopyjournal.com)

 

Mechanical flasher by " Grote "Co.. might be the answer .

 

You might not be loading the flasher enough to make it flash 552 is a heavy duty flasher designed to drive 4 or more bulbs. We have the same problem with led bulbs. I would try a no load flasher.

 

No. I wanted to check for power at my fusebox. So with the flasher not installed, I metered the two connectors in the fusebox and got 12v out of the lower connector which, ironically corresponds with the 'L' terminal on the flasher. The other connector I got 0v.
Next, I ran jumper wires from the two connectors in the box to the two terminals on the flasher, measured at both flasher terminals and that's where I got 12v on both sides.

 

I've got 4 bulbs, front and back.

 

Steve,
I think I already verified that. The turns all light up and brake lights work. The indicators aren't hooked up yet but I was just going to tie into each turn circuit. No emergency flashers. Each wire does what it's supposed to do.

 

You've got one or more of three things wrong; a bad flasher, even though you've replaced it, or a bad turn switch, or it's mis-wired. I'd check the flasher in another car that uses that type if you can; there's been complaints about the quality of these. If it's not the flasher, then it has to be either the switch or mis-wiring...

Re-reading your 2nd post, it may be mis-wired at the fuse panel. You shouldn't have 12V at the load side of the flasher socket when it's unplugged; this should be the wire that connects to the turn switch. The other terminal should have the 12V, and it should be switched. It does make a difference which way the power flows through the flasher on some of them, that's why the terminals are identified.

I don't understand the green jumper at all.

 

I had a similar problem, cleaned up the light housings and ran ground wires to the frame, problem went away.

 

Check the terminal that is NOT 12v with an ohm meter, to ground.
The flasher requires input power, and a load to ground.(through the bulbs) the ohms reading should be the combined total of the bulb resistance.

 

you have 4 bulbs in the system but only 2 flash at a given time,..try a lighter duty flasher.

 

Are you sure it's the correct filament? the bright one? What happens when you have the parking/tail lights turned on, are they not as bright as when you turn on the turn signals?

If you have the sockets wired wrong so you're using the dim filament for the turn signals, the bulbs won't draw enough current to make the flasher blink.

 

You said that the wiring was backwards on your switch (left was right). Maybe your brake light wire and the turn signal wire are switched.

 

Has the turn signal switch ever worked? If it worked before don't bother reading the rest of this post.

I did a total rewire on the Studebaker and it either didn't work or only worked on one side (old age I disassembled the turn signal switch, it was not a pretty sight, but after I cleaned the terminals and reassembled it worked like a new one. If your switch is original it may just be funky inside.

 

Keep in mind what a few of the above posts are pointing out to you. Voltage isn't what causes the turn signals to flash; amperage does.

 

If the turn signals all light up you did it right you just need load to make the flasher flash.
The flasher will not flash without a load

 

CrazySteve,
I've tried 2 different new flashers. With the flasher out of the socket, I ran jumper wires from the socket to the flasher, measured at the flasher and got 12v both sides. I even swapped the 'X' and 'L'. No difference. It may be miswired 'cause the flasher only goes in one way but, even if it is, I should get 12v on the 'X' and 0v on the 'L' until I hit the T/S switch, right? It's like current is passing through the flasher without heating the bi-metal tab.
I don't understand the GRN jumper wire either!

Wanderlust,
Sandblasted/painted the housings and installed new pigtails and 1157 bulbs.

TRENDZ,
I'll do a continuity check on the 'L' terminal and see where I'm at.

squirrel,
It's the correct filament, bright w/TS on, dim for tail lights, bright for brake lights.

Cosmo50,
I don't think so but I'll try it.

vtxl800,
Don't know if the switch worked previously. It is original though. When I turn left the light illuminates, same with the right. I don't want to remove and disassemble but I might have too.

ClayMart,
Understand.

Pooch,
Got it. Besides the fact the socket may be miswired at the box, there must be an issue between the 'L' terminal on the flasher and the switch.

The wire from the T/S switch to the 'L' side of the flasher also ties into Mustang circuit #298 which had a lot of wires branching off going to things I don't have anymore.
Circuit #298:
T/S flasher
Brake shift interlock
Fuse panel
Trans backup light sw
Rear window heat control
Fused ACC feed
Convertible top sw

The only thing it ties into now is the trans backup light switch.

 

The key to troubleshooting electrical is starting at one point then moving outward, verifying each piece of the wiring. Jumping around will just frustrate you...

So starting at the flasher, the power side of the flasher socket should have switched 12V, zero voltage at the load side with the flasher not plugged in. With the flasher installed, you will have 12V on both terminals, as the flasher always has power to it/through it with the key on when measured with a voltmeter. A voltmeter doesn't present enough load to cause the flasher to operate. But until you operate the turn switch, it has no path to ground so it doesn't operate. So the first order of business should be to correct the flasher socket wiring; that may be the only issue. Again, the load side of the flasher must be connected to the turn switch and nowhere else.

It IS important that the flasher be connected correctly; they don't work right if connected backwards.

If that doesn't fix the issue, you now need to check the switch for proper connection/function. Disconnect the switch from the harness then follow the directions in the link I provided. This will positively identify the various wires and/or show if the switch is malfunctioning. Just because everything is lighting up doesn't necessarily mean the switch is good or connected properly. If the switch doesn't 'prove out', remove the jumper you added and re-check.

With all the lights lighting up, that proves the wiring from the switch to the lights is good, so the problem must be either the flasher, switch, or connections at one or both of them. You know you have backwards connections at the flasher, until that's corrected any further checks will be a waste of time.

 

When you had the jumper wire in place and turned the turn signal switch to left or right turn did the lights light up? Yes/no ?

Did all of the lights on the back light up but the fronts didn't?

Do the brake lights light up if you hit the brake pedal?
If not does one brake light light up along with the front turn light if you flip the turn signal with the key on?

Have you tested the flasher in a different rig? New doesn't mean that it is positively good, if it works in the OT rig it should work in your rig.

It boggles the mind a bit as to why anyone who only needs maybe eight or ten circuits would spend the money for a 28 circuit setup and then wack the wires for the other circuits off.

 

I'll start on this today.

Yes, all T/S lights lit up.
All lights lit up.
Brake lights illuminate when I hit the brake pedal.
No, didn't test the flasher in another car. My other cars are 3-wire and the roadster is way too hard to get to.
I paid $25 for the $400 Painless kit at a garage sale. Contents were untouched and still sealed in their cellophane bags. Didn't cause me any anguish at all to whack a few circuits!

 

My fuse box is wired hot at all times. With the key in the 'off'' position I took a reading from lower socket terminal, with flasher unplugged I get 12v and 0v at the other terminal.
I rigged jumper wires so I can take a reading from the socket terminals without actually plugging in the flasher into the socket. With the key in the 'on' position, I get 12v from both socket terminals. I swap the 'X' and 'L' wires at the flasher and get 12v from both socket terminals.

 

I should get 12v on the 'X' and 0v on the 'L' until I hit the T/S switch, NO NO NO

12 volts all the way to the turn signal switch. The switch grounds the 12 volts through the light bulbs. When the load is great enough the flasher will flash. Simple drawing for reference

 

I don't understand what you're checking here.... You have four apparent connections to the fuse panel, you should only have two....

And you really should split the panel, with 'always hot' circuits like the lights (all except turns), horn, lighter connected to a unswitched hot and the rest to a switched hot.

 

Only certain circuits should be hot all the time. All others should be run off the accessory side of the ignition switch.
Headlight, taillight, 4 way flasher, brake light and Horn are all that normally are hot all the time. That is on older cars as many new ones have the main headlights connected to a keyed on circuit and have running lights.
Turn signals should be run off the accessory side of the ignition switch.

What's the part number of the wiring harness? With that Steve, I or one of the others may be able to look at the instruction manual to help figure it out.

One thing I did find in the instruction manuals that I looked at is that they tell you how to unplug the circuits you don't plan to use rather than cutting wires.

 

YOU don't by chance have LED lights?

I'm thinking that this should be the correct manual for the unit you have.

10202.pdf (painlessperformance.com)

 

The four-way flasher circuit is useless for him as his turn switch isn't configured for one.

 

I'm not impressed.....

 

I think he has the wrong flasher. If he replaced it with the same kind of flasher, it is still wrong, there are several different flashers out there! If he pulls down on the lever and the left side front and rear turn/brake lights come on and visa/ versa the right side, that’s a real good indicater that it is wired correctly. Just not enough load on the flasher to make it cycle. At least that is where I would start. It has been mentioned.






Bones

 

I think the one you're seeing is down low and that's for the emergency flasher. I'm not running LED, I've got 1157 bulbs. I appreciate all the help. I'm kinda learning as I go!

The Painless harness is 20 years old. I guess you could call it NOS!
Part #10202. The manual for it has it's own part # of 90501.