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Technical 1959 Chevy Truck Suspension, Axle and Brake Project

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by 59Apachegail, Dec 6, 2018.

  1. 59Apachegail
    Joined: Apr 30, 2011
    Posts: 1,504

    59Apachegail
    Member
    from New York

    Thank you!
    Mine is not yet at the dime stage. It is way better than it was.
     
  2. qzjrd5
    Joined: Nov 23, 2004
    Posts: 1,339

    qzjrd5
    Member
    from Troy, MI

    Great build thread. Thanks for all the details!
     
    59Apachegail likes this.
  3. V24x3
    Joined: Mar 17, 2021
    Posts: 7

    V24x3

    Hey there, I’m being creative and messaging you here because they won’t let me message you in the classifieds. I might be interested in your 2 235 pro tracs if you still have them? Hopefully you get this, Jim 5eightysix, fifetyfive7-eighty one ninety
     
  4. V24x3
    Joined: Mar 17, 2021
    Posts: 7

    V24x3

    New
    Hey there, I’m being creative and messaging you here because they won’t let me message you in the classifieds. I might be interested in your 2 235 pro tracs if you still have them? Hopefully you get this, Jim 5eightysix, fifetyfive7-eighty one ninety
     
  5. 59Apachegail
    Joined: Apr 30, 2011
    Posts: 1,504

    59Apachegail
    Member
    from New York

    I started back up cleaning, prepping and painting parts. Some will be used on this project, some to be kept as spares. I had buckets full of greasy/rusted parts I gathered so this project didn’t have to wait on parts. Then life gets in the way and they sit and wait anyway.

    I picked up the cheapest 7gallon ultrasonic cleaner 2 years ago. I never got to take it out of the box until a month ago.

    I am sure everyone has their own methods. For me I use empty laundry detergent jugs (these jugs are stronger plastic and resist chemicals) to put my parts in. I fill those jugs with solution and fill the ultrasonic cleaner with plain water. In doing this I save on solutions and cleanup of the ultrasonic tank.

    I haven’t had my cleaner higher than 120ish degrees and it runs in 30 minutes intervals. Obviously you use gloves, leave a window open and either use hearing protection or close the door to the room. Don’t put your hand in there when it is running because it will rattle the fillings out of your mouth. The cleaner works best when the water is hot. I can run 3 cold loads and not see results I see from one hot one.

    I start with the enviro safe simple green and do 8oz per gallon of water and it does great. After 5 loads I will run with 2 oz of dish detergent per gallon of water 2 - 3 loads. It helps a lot of you rinse the parts in warm water in between each run especially when switch solutions. Then I run straight evaporust 4 to 5 times. After about 5-8 cycles the solution is filthy and needs to be replaced. If not the crud that gets into the solution starts making the parts dirtier.
    40A197DC-3FCD-4A05-BC03-77DBC31349D9.jpeg


    So here we have a spare set of shock hangers I got over a year ago. They have been sitting waiting their turn. Since I already have a good set and gone through the process I made spare set just in case.
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    I found someone to weld my axle tubes to the housing so they don’t leak anymore. Once that is done I can get that sucker prepped, primed and ready for a rebuild.
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2022
    Algoma56 likes this.
  6. 59Apachegail
    Joined: Apr 30, 2011
    Posts: 1,504

    59Apachegail
    Member
    from New York

    Mini update - I was holding off on new axles to save some cash. I figured I’d clean up my old ones. In meantime I had my eyes on a set of Moser replacements. I found a set of new old stock for a deal. They had some rust stains but cleaned up pretty well. They match the original perfectly. I think they were built in Feb 2015 based on the stamp on the front.

    604A6BA0-97DD-40AC-A026-F9C21A4C0B09.jpeg 9817347B-CCA6-46F5-AD76-3737476D9032.jpeg 9E8F973F-A6B5-4C89-8E33-5B05A0A46C21.jpeg 04C920C1-B1A4-4A96-B0D4-6892C6D39A0C.jpeg
     
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  7. 59Apachegail
    Joined: Apr 30, 2011
    Posts: 1,504

    59Apachegail
    Member
    from New York

    Back to the housing…
    The guy who was supposed to weld my axle tubes told me not to waste money. He said seal the axle housing with some oil resistant silicone. Considering it was sitting in the woods with half a gallon of water, he thought it was straight and cleaned up well.

    The tubes were dirty and gritty inside so I needed a way to clean them. I took this wire brush and drilled out the end that goes into the drill. I replaced that end with a 5/16 threaded rod I had laying around. (I’m not taking credit for this one, someone else on the HAMB did it before me).

    1213E863-9F76-4652-8557-BF989B1A49CB.jpeg BE8616CA-4D45-4CB3-BA3F-B1B385B55A27.jpeg 71B07802-65CB-41E1-9B89-3FF6E83DF35E.jpeg 49D7CFDC-A888-4447-9CEA-AE21E4B24C04.jpeg

    Another can of brake cleaner and a bunch of paper towels and the inside ended up a lot better.
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2022
    Shadow Creek, bobss396 and swade41 like this.
  8. 59Apachegail
    Joined: Apr 30, 2011
    Posts: 1,504

    59Apachegail
    Member
    from New York

    Quick little update, I removed the remaining hardware and cleaned them of rust and grease. I filed down the rough edges where the bolt holes got opened up. Last I dropped it off for a bath a blast and some power coat.
     
    swade41 likes this.
  9. 59Apachegail
    Joined: Apr 30, 2011
    Posts: 1,504

    59Apachegail
    Member
    from New York

    Pins and Needles…
    It hasn’t been a week yet waiting on the powder coated.

    Got some goodies from summit, still waiting on some wheel studs. The bearings ended up being Koyo and somehow they say USA. I thought Timken closed production in USA. C-Clips fit the axles.
    image.jpg
    The yolk, plug and old some bearings are getting a ultrasonic bath. Yolk and plug being reused, the rest is being saved for my kids to throw out.

    image.jpg
     
  10. Wanderlust
    Joined: Oct 27, 2019
    Posts: 787

    Wanderlust

    The nomenclature makes the difference, packaging states assembled not made in, sadly anyone can make a label. But looks like you did good, Koyo makes great bearings!
     
    59Apachegail likes this.
  11. 59Apachegail
    Joined: Apr 30, 2011
    Posts: 1,504

    59Apachegail
    Member
    from New York

    After about two loads in the bath the nut and washer for the panhard got blued. The yoke and plug ran for another four runs before all the gunk was gone. Had to do three runs in evaporust and it looked new if you ignore the craters. Then some primer and paint.
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    Pulled out carrier and ring gear. Ran a file over the mating surfaces and wiped them down. Tapped the ring gear on with a rubber mallet and temporarily put all the bolts in.
    14ED5C00-1C6B-42C5-A905-FE1FF9EC67FE.jpeg
    I remember using this trick to get the ring gear off last time so I did it again.
    1A62F246-E80E-4320-BF90-89D9A5CDBE82.jpeg
    Bolts removed one at a time, some thread locker and torqued them up to 60ft lbs. 35327062-BDAF-47B7-AC97-1B93151280FE.jpeg
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2022
    swade41, Budget36 and guthriesmith like this.
  12. 59Apachegail
    Joined: Apr 30, 2011
    Posts: 1,504

    59Apachegail
    Member
    from New York

    I planned on trying to get the side bearings hot and the carrier cold. The carrier didn’t fit in the freezer and the BBQ was not up to the task. That thing maxes out at 300 on a good day. So… I picked up a $7 bearing from the bay. I felt bad cutting a brand new old stock bearing from Napa but it had the “c” word printed on it so I didn’t feel so bad.

    First I made two cuts on opposite ends of the bearings. C49947F9-6A61-4EA0-B183-7E6BF7A8C669.jpeg
    I spent some time with a carbide bit and then the sanding drums. It took about ten thou for it to slip over the carrier. I later found out this second step was a waste of time. The end of this bearing tool never made it far enough down the carrier to get stuck.
    EB24CE35-E4FC-4538-BEBE-FB757F5B58A2.jpeg
    Next I put some assembly grease on the bearing and the carrier. Stacked on the bearing, the new bearing tool and 2lb weight to get some even force all around.
    E2A5CD8F-F54A-47F5-9541-BFC7766AA438.jpeg 4D65F16C-AD2E-4BCB-94F9-B32D2085F131.jpeg 88BD542F-78A0-445F-BE9E-83BA460EEDEC.jpeg F91E1BA1-1D05-481C-8C2E-38448B82981C.jpeg
    I slowly eased the bearing down, made sure it went down square and bottomed out. Then repeated on the other side. This exercise was a lot less eventful that I thought it was going to be. Still waiting on that housing…
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2022
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  13. 59Apachegail
    Joined: Apr 30, 2011
    Posts: 1,504

    59Apachegail
    Member
    from New York

    Not a complaint but a lesson learned. I ordered original wheel studs for the rear axles. Those have a knurl that is .560 the new Moser axles have .450 hole. I could have drilled them out but why chance it? So… I sent those back and picked up 2 sets of Moser wheel studs that had a .480 knurl.

    Still not complaining… These wheel studs 7/16-20 can be expensive, some companies sell them for $5 each. I went with Moser studs not only because they are recommended but also because they should be good quality. Issue is they only sell them in packs of 10 so 6 lug axles need two packs. If anyone needs some studs let me know I have 8 orphans.
     
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  14. I wonder what the cost difference would've been if they installed the studs, would they charge you for doing 3 axles to cover the costs of the 2 extra studs ?
    I just had them redrill my Henry J axles which they quote $75 but I also had them tap the hole since I have screw in studs. The invoice says $75 but the over the phone quote said around $100-$105, which reflects in the total minus the shipping, it was worth the extra dough for the knowledgeable staff to do it correctly.
    It's the little issues like that that add a couple more days to your projects but peace of mind in knowing it's right makes it worth it.
     
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  15. 59Apachegail
    Joined: Apr 30, 2011
    Posts: 1,504

    59Apachegail
    Member
    from New York

    Swade, I didn’t think to ask if they would install them for me. I picked my axles up “new” off eBay, thinking they are from 2015. I don’t have any paperwork so I wonder if they would work on them?
    These axles were still wrapped in plastic and original paper. They had some light rust and rust stains under the plastic. I bought them because they were advertised as new open box and a bill cheaper than Summit. At first I was pissed when they showed up but after some wd40 and scotch bright I got them mostly back to shiny.
    I hear ya on peace of mind! This project originally started out as a master cylinder upgrade Hopefully I can get these pressed in. I’m using the shop press and some long sockets. I’m going to have to be a little creative because the axle shaft can’t be pointed up due to lack of clearance on the press.
     
    swade41 likes this.
  16. I will say that you are no slouch when it comes to doing an awesome job. :cool::cool::cool:
     
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  17. 59Apachegail
    Joined: Apr 30, 2011
    Posts: 1,504

    59Apachegail
    Member
    from New York

    Thanks Bob, much appreciated!!
     
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  18. 59Apachegail
    Joined: Apr 30, 2011
    Posts: 1,504

    59Apachegail
    Member
    from New York

    It’s felt like waaay too long but I finally got it back
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    I could have did rustoleum or por15 but I am happy with my decision so far. The ugly ones are from July 2019 more than 3 years since it was pulled out of the woods.
     
    swade41 likes this.
  19. 59Apachegail
    Joined: Apr 30, 2011
    Posts: 1,504

    59Apachegail
    Member
    from New York

  20. 59Apachegail
    Joined: Apr 30, 2011
    Posts: 1,504

    59Apachegail
    Member
    from New York

    I washed the inside with water, soap and a fresh new t-shirt. There was some blast media inside and a little grease and grime left over where the tubes meet the housing. It started flash rusting immediately. I WD-40ed the housing and the tubes. Then cleaned up any remaining grime left over. Head, tail bearing races, axle bearings; lithium greased and installed. I bought a cheap bearing race install tool. A good argument for buying quality new or used tools. After I was done, I had to remove all the aluminum chips that broke off. Tube to housing joint was sealed with some gasket maker. Hopefully that will hold back any oil leaks. Last was the axle seals with some more gasket goop.

    562ECA96-166A-443D-A9D9-89F119E8A53C.jpeg 3D9414D7-8F87-4C56-8C0A-699F3CE153E5.jpeg 15346691-2640-4EBD-A539-919B51671D45.jpeg E3A1D492-C575-48F9-B16A-CEE43118697C.jpeg F0EB57BE-BB82-433B-B9D6-836F1DCFA1C2.jpeg AEC61740-A997-49E6-9D3B-86955E193044.jpeg DA80D6BC-8E0E-4374-A09D-79B22F7D06C7.jpeg 4ACC9E0D-1FA6-402A-8E3D-EB38D4BE928B.jpeg
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    Last edited: Aug 31, 2022
    swade41 likes this.
  21. Looks brand new now
     
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  22. 59Apachegail
    Joined: Apr 30, 2011
    Posts: 1,504

    59Apachegail
    Member
    from New York

    Thanks Swade that was the easy part!

    I am trying to get this pinion depth but as usual there is always a challenge. The old pinion is .005 shorter than the new one and uses a .027 shim. The new one is stacked with a .025 shim. It would make sense to use a .022 however I can not get the numbers to add up. I am using a Ratech depth gauge and it seems like a lot of room for error.

    1) You need three hands
    2) There is no finite point where you measure
    3) The hole in the tool is pretty big (considering the operation) so you get numbers all over the place
    4) The caliper base is pretty small
    5) Where the race sits slopes in towards the pinion
    B19F0229-B40F-485D-85FA-5C5B12DAA76E.jpeg
    I had to hold the depth gauge while I measured and used the old pinion to hold down the tool.
    2F6478D2-B924-4E0F-B938-886EF400DFD4.jpeg
    Next you need to find the deepest part of the housing where the race will sit. I found that pulling the depth gauge toward the top of the housing and aligning the flat end parallel to the axle tube gets your caliper center.
    F9757BE7-1256-4E69-B164-A0E897B49D96.jpeg
    At this point you can see that I am kind of center at the deepest point and also center from left to right.


    In case anyone else uses one of these this is how I did it :

    Tools says 3.204
    Caliper in center of tool says .4515
    Pinion says 2.752

    3.204 - .4515 = 2.7525
    2.7525 - 2.752 = .0005

    Since I don’t have that small a shim and no combination of shims will make that ten thousandths up I think I’ll call it good… I hope it’s good.
     
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  23. 59Apachegail
    Joined: Apr 30, 2011
    Posts: 1,504

    59Apachegail
    Member
    from New York

    Backlash done .008 ring is calling for .006-.010
    3DC54F1D-B4C7-4D99-BDE0-5F49E1BFDA6A.jpeg
     
  24. 59Apachegail
    Joined: Apr 30, 2011
    Posts: 1,504

    59Apachegail
    Member
    from New York

    On to the yellow paste, to my eyes it looks like it matches the good chart.
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    swade41 likes this.
  25. Impressive, I've never set up gears or rebuilt a transmission, looks complicated.
     
  26. 59Apachegail
    Joined: Apr 30, 2011
    Posts: 1,504

    59Apachegail
    Member
    from New York

    Thank You Swade! This is my first rodeo but so far it is not been that difficult. Getting the math right is a little worrisome. I marked the original stuff and used that as a starting point. What I am using is pretty close to how it came factory. So far the pinion has been out about 5 times and the carrier only 3. It all comes apart one last time so I can put the permanent bearings on the pinion and the crush sleeve. The crush sleeve takes 3-400 ft lbs of torque to get it to crush. That will be the next challenge.

    I watched a Hagerty video about 50 times already. That’s really where I got the courage for this one : )
     
    swade41 likes this.
  27. 59Apachegail
    Joined: Apr 30, 2011
    Posts: 1,504

    59Apachegail
    Member
    from New York

    Side bearing races and shims cleaned, oiled and re-stacked. Smallest to largest from bearing side to axle tube side. The shims get stacked on the shelf and that is the side that goes towards the bearing.
    84C60418-91DF-4F73-81DA-C5570C465AE7.jpeg
    Pinion, bearing and shims cleaned. Shims got oiled and stacked on the pinion, a nice healthy smear of lithium grease. It was wrapped in plastic for a four hour chill in the freezer. Bearing went into a pre-heated oven at 450 for 20 minutes. Both went on the counter at the same time. Bearing slid down the shaft and sat on the shims as if it was meant to be there.
    E7D0A938-E20D-4E78-A27F-DCAC1CD8F353.jpeg
    That went easier than I thought it would. Quick note if the bearing is clear of grease and oil it won’t smile up your oven or kitchen. Glad I cleaned it!

    Tail bearing and race cleaned and oiled. Pinion seal surface cleaned, seal got some gasket maker and pounded in. 72F16609-4C42-4656-ABF5-DE9C61676CBB.jpeg EA8DEAA1-66D1-47BA-AC00-61F76B31077C.jpeg

    There is a space but that seal won’t go down any deeper. I doubt it will move and there seems to be more than enough rubber to cover the yoke. DB9C0EA5-6CE7-40CA-BAF4-81DF50F21432.jpeg
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2022
    swade41 likes this.
  28. 59Apachegail
    Joined: Apr 30, 2011
    Posts: 1,504

    59Apachegail
    Member
    from New York

    That crush sleeve is not budging and another quality tool. I guess the part number says it all.

    A8BD66B1-0017-44C1-945C-31572CCD6144.jpeg
     
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  29. 59Apachegail
    Joined: Apr 30, 2011
    Posts: 1,504

    59Apachegail
    Member
    from New York

    There it’s fixed…
    9AB7526D-D644-4202-9937-9DA17F1ABE9E.jpeg
    I went from 3inch lbs to 28inch lbs in less than 1/4 turn.
    24880A95-78B2-4CC4-8998-2C545490BC23.jpeg
     
  30. 59Apachegail
    Joined: Apr 30, 2011
    Posts: 1,504

    59Apachegail
    Member
    from New York

    Carrier install according to the instructions said to use an extra .005 shim on each side for preload. The kit only comes with .006. That changed my pinion free play from .008 to .005. I pulled the carrier out did some shim magic. Reduced driver side shim pack by .003 changing the free play from .005 back to .008. Re-checked pattern and it still looks good.
    E1FD26D0-4E11-4E61-8D6F-54825B2D00F4.jpeg 53CCD261-B05D-4870-B656-398334A0D31F.jpeg
    Torqued up my caps to 65ft lbs and now cleaning up the cover and bolts.
    33BCD1F0-5C4D-409E-AD4E-0FAECF65DF63.jpeg
    At this point the only concern is one info source says 25-30ft lbs of rotational force on the pinion and others say 20-25.
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2022

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