Projects Stay Ford?

Hello all, I am a first time poster. I have been working on a 29 Model A and will be making a hot rod out of it. For the engine I have decided to stay Ford and am using a 59a Flathead. My questions is should I say with the Ford name and try to use a newer Ford manual transmission or I have also heard a lot of individuals put in a T5 Chevy transmission with these builds. Just wondering if others have kept Ford throughout and if they did what transmission did they utilize?

 

You're building a hot rod. Use whatever parts you want. That's what hot rodding has always been about.

 

Sometimes you find Autolite (Ford) stuff on other cars, sometimes Delco (GM) on Fords. Borg warner trans in a Vette or a Ford, the gears don't care. Make sense?

 

Plus the T5 is by Borg-Warner not made by GM.


Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app

 

Yes, that makes sense! Thanks

 

I did not know that, thanks for the info.

 

A LaSalle transmission isn't Ford, but most here would be fine with using it...

 

https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/t5-to-flathead-trans-conversions.967983/

 

What's your plans for this hot rod? Do you have freeways where you live and do you plan on using them? Do you want brisk acceleration from low speed or a standing start? You can use a V8 3 speed trans, or the very common 39 Ford transmission, and with some low gears in the back it will accelerate decent and be a nice hot rod, but it won't be so friendly on the interstate hwy's. Top end may be limited to around 60 mph or so. Or you can go with higher gears to get decent hwy speed, but acceleration will suffer. If you have no need to get on the freeway or run 65 - 70 mph, then a 39 trans will do fine.

Some options to have both good acceleration and sufficient high speed to hit the freeway are to add an overdrive, like a Mitchell; or use a Columbia 2-speed rear axle, but now you're talking extra money, and the Columbia 2-speed axles aren't easy to find or cheap. So a lot of guys use a modern 5 speed transmission, like a T5, along with low gears in the diff to get both good acceleration and decent hwy speed. Another option is a 3 speed overdrive Ford transmission out of a certain series of pickups that apparently works well with the stock torque tube and rear axle.

And that brings up another thing, do you plan on keeping and using the stock torque tube, or go with an open driveshaft and a modern rear axle, cause that means you have to decide how you're going to mount the axle if you delete the torque tube.

Lot's of things to consider, the time to do that is now before you start buying things. This is the place to learn and get the info you need to make the decision; there are threads on all of the things I mentioned, just spend some time here searching threads and reading, and asking questions.

 

Great Information Blues4U! Yes, that is why I am figuring it out now, as you said, before I spend a lot of money. I am not planning on taking it out on interstate, however in North Dakota if you want to drive it there is a long distance between towns and highways are what is used. I am leaning towards the T5 and was also planning on doing a open driveshaft and modern real axle. But the 3 speed overdrive is also appealing.

 

Many different combos out there for sure. The T-5 is the current thing you hear most. Personally I think it's over ratted. Before you jump in on anything go to some events and find someone with one behind there Flathead. Have them take you for a ride,,,,, then decide. I have found with a 5 speed behind a Flathead first gear is just about useless.

 

Russ, as you spend time around here you'll find there are some guys with a lot of experience that know what they're talking about. The Wizzard is one of them. When he's offering info it pays to listen up.

If you don't need to run 70 mph to keep up with traffic, than these old cars really travel well at a little slower speed anyway. And if you go full fendered, well, at a certain speed those beautifully shaped Model A front fenders aren't the best aerodynamics, the front end tends to get light. I don't know what speed that is, cause I run mine fenderless (we don't need no stinkin' fenders.... )

 

No Fenders for me either!

 

Having broken countless old Ford 3 speed transmissions in the past, I elected to use a Chevy S-10, 5 speed behind my 59ab in a 33 ford pickup. Mine had a 46 Ford pickup rear axle with low gears, 4.44 if I remember right. I bought the kit from Speedway Motors and it went together with no hiccups. I loved it but if I was to do it again, I'd pick a rear axle with higher gears. Something with a 3.50 or 3.70 ratio.

 

Ford did use the T-5 on the mustang. I think it was the Ford version that had the shifter further to the back of the tail housing, and the S-10 was more towards the middle.

 

FTF......

 

Most true hotrodders aren't as anal about brand sensitive as many guys are today. Back in the 50's and 60's guys bought whatever was going to make their car go fast, and stuffed it in their hotrod. My first engine swap was a 413 Chrysler with Torqueflite in my '40 Chev coupe. Based simply on plenty of power, and I bought the whole Imperial for $150 to use as much as possible in my old Chevy.
I didn't care what anyone thought about a Mopar in a Chevy. Just whether it was faster than most other cars in town.

 

I respectfully disagree with your final comment. Just like many other transmissions, T5’s were available with numerous gear sets and a builder is not limited to an S-10 sourced T5. It is only the forward mounted gearshift that makes the S-10 version popular....in spite of it’s poor ratio setup.

It has been common to use an S-10 tail housing and shifter on other versions of the T5 to gain the full advantage of the T5. Modern Driveline Service (MDS) offers a newly cast S-10 style tail housing conversion that solves all the issue with the factory housing found in some applications.

If one just ‘blindly’ uses an S-10 trans as is, without doing a bit of homework, they may well not be entirely satisfied with the results. But that is on them, not the transmission. No different than picking the wrong camshaft or carburetors for the needs of the job at hand.

Ray

 

Something seldom talked about is the Ford 3+1 gear box. I don't have first hand info to pass on but will at some point. What I like about it is Nothing special needed to bolt to the 49-53 motor. That gear box has dual bolt pattern. I like the wide ratio gear set, it will take a normal Hurst shift unit and 4th is Overdrive. Going to a rear Axle with drop in gear unit will let you fine tune along with Tire size you like. The old Banjo unit even with open drive change over isn't as friendly. The 3+1 looks like every other Ford top loader 4 speed but it has overdrive. I'm hoping it's more friendly to the Flathead torque band.

 

My Fords are all "Built Ford Tuff' with Chevy stuff".

I am not a big fan of OD and with a flathead I got an idea that 3 gears would be a gracious plenty. The real question is can you drive? If you go with an old Ford tranny (like pre-50s) you got no syncros. if you can't drive you better go with a late model tranny otherwise the Ford tranny will do just fine.

 

That’s correct. It’s a Borg Warner transmission that was purchased by GM and inserted in an S10.

Same DNA as the version Ford used in the Mustang.

Nothing to be ashamed about.

 

I have one that I picked up to try in my 57 Sedan Delivery, haven't got too it. I also located a specific Hurst shifter for it. Not super strong, probably on a level with a Munchie, but OK for a cruiser

 

Is that the same unit discussed in this thread?
https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum...-original-model-a-engine-w-torquetube.728951/

 

No it is not.

 

The problem with these is OD is a re-tasked 3rd gear. Which means in OD you're spinning the cluster gear under load constantly, rather than shifting into 'high' for a direct path. They're well known for wearing the cluster shaft/bearings out, how rapidly that happens depends on how much you load it in OD. Ford recommended NOT using OD if towing or carrying loads. Any used one you buy, that's one thing that needs to be looked at. There's multiple versions of these; cast iron cases w/external linkage, aluminum cases with internal linkage (the SROD, and these are even more prone to wear), and the top-tower type used in some PUs and all Jeeps. Some are drilled for both Ford patterns, some aren't (but could be). Some ratio spreads aren't the best, the somewhat rare car trans has the 'better' ratios.

In a light car with a relatively low HP motor (> 200HP) they'll hold up, as power goes up longevity goes down. Because it's based on the Toploader, the gear set is actually pretty tough and will take considerably more power, it's the cluster shaft/bearings that's the limiting factor.

 

Overdrives are certainly nice but many people in my family drove stock flatheads back and forth from CA to Texas in between 1939 and 1954. Only one of those cars had an overdrive. My mother liked to drive between 65 and 70 so she could average 60 mph for the entire day. I drove my 33 and 40, both with stock bottom end flatheads 70 all the time on long road trips. I think flatheads with 39 transmissions were the hot rod combination of the day, at least in my neighborhood. I personally like the column shifts and used them in at least a half dozen builds back in the 50's through the 70's. I think people baby their flatheads too much. Same with Model A 4 bangers. Then again, I did beat the bearings out of the last stock Model A I had.

 

I have never understood why such a large bunch of Todays Hot Rod crowd thinks Flatheads can't do what they did all day long year after year when they were first built. I do understand that todays Traffic is totally different than it was in the 40's and 50's but 70 miles an hour is still just 70 miles an hour. Growing up there used to be road sign's at the end of City Limits that said Resume Speed. To my Dad that ment 80mph or better until another City limit sign, when he spotted the Ass End of another car he'd lean on it till it was in his rear view mirror. God I loved Family Vacations.

 

I think nothing of getting in my 8ba powerd coupe with a 34 Ford 3 speed and 3.78 banjo rear and doing 75 down the interstate. And its got plenty to go after that. Bias ply tires too.

 

Camaro T5 had the shifter in a better location, too. Just throwing that out there.

 

You forget that flatheads, and other cars of the era generally had a blue haze following them by 50k miles.

Ring wear is, among other things, a function of piston travel, and an overdrive transmission reduces piston travel per mile by 20-30%. I surmise that larger, more powerful cars of the era also had axle ratios and larger diameter tires, both of which reduced piston travel. They also had a reputation for lasting longer.