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Technical starting voltage

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by birdman1, Mar 8, 2021.

  1. birdman1
    Joined: Dec 6, 2012
    Posts: 1,591

    birdman1
    Member

    I am building a 1937 Ford coupe witha 430 Lincoln engine, T5 transmmission. I used the stock 1963 Lincoln exhaust manifolds. The bellhusing is from a 1966 Ford 390, so it does not have the provision for the long snout 1963 style starter drive. so I used a starter for a 1966 390 engine. the starter wouldn't clear the exhaust manifold. So I bought a Power master 9606 starter with the infinite clocking. Fits great. The 9606 has the solenoid mounted on the starter. So now I have no way to provide a full 12 volts to the coil while cranking the engine. The stock ford starter uses a solenoid that directs 12 volt to the coil while cranking. can i mount a Ford style solenoid on the firewall and engage both solenoids at once? connect a wire from the ford solenoid to the powermaster solenoid and a cable from the starter side of the ford solenoid to the starter cable connection on the powermaster? Does it really need the 12 volts at cranking? wish i knew how to post a diagram. thanks for your help
     
  2. goldmountain
    Joined: Jun 12, 2016
    Posts: 4,442

    goldmountain

    Mimilan likes this.
  3. 63tango
    Joined: Jul 25, 2013
    Posts: 191

    63tango
    Member
    from California

    Chances of having 12 volts while cranking is low because of the draw on the battery while cranking. What I was taught in my automotive electrical classes is that an ignition system needs a minimum of 9.6 volts to operate. So you don't need 12 volts while cranking.
     
  4. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 55,941

    squirrel
    Member

    He's worried about the coil being able to fire properly, when it's getting about 5 volts (dropped by both the cranking thing, and the ballast resistor).

    you could do the Ford relay thing, or just use a small relay, or use a diode, or just not worry about it until you notice that it's having starting problems, that you can fix by bypassing the ballast resistor.
     

  5. 63tango
    Joined: Jul 25, 2013
    Posts: 191

    63tango
    Member
    from California

    Ya 5 volts is probably too low
     
  6. Truck64
    Joined: Oct 18, 2015
    Posts: 5,325

    Truck64
    Member
    from Ioway

    Maybe that's why the minimum voltage or Go/no go voltage for a serviceable battery during engine cranking (or a battery load test) is 9.6 volts.
     
  7. 63tango
    Joined: Jul 25, 2013
    Posts: 191

    63tango
    Member
    from California

    Yep that's why
     
  8. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 55,941

    squirrel
    Member

    but of course that specific voltage doesn't really mean much in the real world....it either starts, or it doesn't.
     
    G-son likes this.
  9. Mimilan
    Joined: Jun 13, 2019
    Posts: 1,230

    Mimilan
    Member

    This^^^^

    He could add a single wire from the starter terminal to the coil with a diode to prevent the solenoid being activated by the engine running.
    But a Ford solenoid as mentioned [and the starter bridged] is a better solution.
    upload_2021-3-9_8-44-16.png
     
    Roothawg and Wrench97 like this.
  10. Wrench97
    Joined: Jan 29, 2020
    Posts: 679

    Wrench97

    ^^^^ that is how Ford did it on some early 80's models it works well.
     
  11. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 55,941

    squirrel
    Member

    If you don't want the huge ugly ford relay, you can use a small Bosch type relay, just connect the coil to ground and the S wire that goes from the ignition switch to the starter. And connect the positive side of the coil to the C terminal, and battery power to the NO terminal.
     
  12. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 55,941

    squirrel
    Member

  13. leon bee
    Joined: Mar 15, 2017
    Posts: 798

    leon bee
    Member

    I have a Buick that's had a toggle switch under the dash for about 40 years- 12v to coil for starting.
     
  14. birdman1
    Joined: Dec 6, 2012
    Posts: 1,591

    birdman1
    Member

    I think I will use the ford solenoid ( already have it), thanks for the diagram. Henry
     
  15. d2_willys
    Joined: Sep 8, 2007
    Posts: 4,285

    d2_willys
    Member
    from Kansas

    Diode should work just fine!
     
  16. Mr48chev
    Joined: Dec 28, 2007
    Posts: 33,861

    Mr48chev
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Good lord, a simple hidden push button or toggle switch could run 12 v to the coil while cranking. Think outside the frigging box.

    A Ford solenoid as Goldmountain suggested is inexpensive and simple. Truth be known you probably already have one sitting there. All you have to do is take the solenoid wire off the micky mouse starter and put it on the Ford Solenoid and make a jumper bar out of a copper wire terminal to jump from the S post on the solenoid to the battery post on it.
    Mimilan drew the diagram in post 9. That is the exact same thing we do putting a Ford Solenoid on a Chevy starter that has hot start issues.
    That is the simple way and you may not have to buy anything except a copper terminal that works better than a wire. Just figure out the distance from the center of the battery post on the starter solenoid to the S post, flatten the cable end of the terminal and drill a hole and then dress the end of the piece up a bit and install it.

    If you don't want to install a Ford Solenoid, the switch under the dash would be real simple.
     

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