I went with "GOOD". Individual components will get BEST as needed... @amodel25 came by and checked out the car today. His experience with As made me a lot more comfortable with the state this car is in right now. The funny noise it was making is just valve noise. I'll pull the valve cover off at some point and see if this engine got adjustable lifters when it was rebuilt. I think a separate occasional squeaking noise must be coming from the bellhousing. I see a lot of guys on other forums saying they run straight STP oil additive as transmission fluid in their Model As (in lieu of 600W gear oil). Is this bullshit? Seems like it'd be easier to get my hands on than the special witch's brew locomotive oil Henry prescribes.
Order some 600w from Macs or Brattons or any Model A parts vendor. Order some for the rear axle as well. People run all kinds of stuff. I run 600w in my model A and my 34 and my 2 previous model As. Its what goes in there.
Be careful when you start into the engine, it is addicting. I started checking whether my valves were sealing and ended up building the banger that I run now. When I removed the valves, it looked like someone had made the valve seats by hammering a rock into the top of the block. I pulled the engine and now I am running with somewhere in the 65 HP zone. High compression head, Weber carb, Bill Stipes cam, cast iron header, new Aries exhaust all on a rebuild with balance, new insert bearings and a lightened flywheel. Like I said, be careful what you start. By the way, you will be much happier with a 1936 to 1939 transmission. You can get an install kit from Cling's or Snyders (they sell the Cling's kit) and keep your enclosed driveshaft. The shift points are much better than the original Model A transmission. I am running a 1935 trans because the better synchro transmissions were too expensive but the best is the 1939. You can make this upgrade without worry because it will bolt right up to a flathead if you eventually go that direction.
I’ve been keeping my eyes peeled for a ‘39 transmission for a while. I hadn’t considered running it behind the banger but that makes sense... if I score one early I can use it until I’m ready to install the V8 - that’s handy! Only one funny noise left to track down now. It’s an intermittent squeak or squeal, like an old fan with dried up grease. I only hear it after the engine is good and hot and only periodically then. It sounds like it’s coming from the bellhousing but I haven’t run it with the inspection cover off yet to try and pin it down (planning to do that tonight). It shouldn’t be the throwout bearing as long as the clutch is not depressed, right? Is there something else in there that could be howling? Did I miss a grease zerk on the transmission? The brakes are all freed up except the driver side emergency brake. It randomly stops the wheel dead when it is rolling forward. Sometimes it lets it go a full rotation, sometimes two, sometimes only a quarter. It can freewheel in reverse all it wants. The problem is, lug nuts are 13/16 and my only 13/16 socket gets wedged between the inside lip of the wheel and the nut as it backs off, which makes it impossible to get the nuts out??? I need more tools! On a side note, I’m starting to seriously develop a hop up plan for the banger, as long as it continues behaving. I’m thinking Model B distributor first. I definitely want to go downdraft intake/carb too. Are those sub-$400 repop police heads any good?
As far as a 1939 trans, keep your eyes on HAMB, Fordbarn and E-Bay. There were a couple that seemed like a pretty good deal in the last couple months so you might want to do a search here and Fordbarn. If you get the install kit, I can send some suggestions to reduce mistakes and frustrations (like ensure clearance for your wishbone under the bell housing). Your noise could be the throwout bearing even when not engaged if it touches, There is also the pilot bearing in back of the crankshaft. If your car was sitting a long time you may have small rust spots in these bearing surfaces. Beware of a fiber cam drive gear if the car was parked for a long time. The fiber gear can hold moisture in the contact points against the drive gear on the crankshaft. This will lead to cam gear failure. It sounds like you have a brake actuator near top dead center or brake shoes that are not retained well causing the grabby brake. There are lots of good suggestions here, Fordbarn especially, and on YouTube for adjusting the brakes. One of the methods that you find will become your preferred method. Get a crossbar lug wrench, they are pretty inexpensive. The Snyder's heads get good reviews, I am running their 6:1 but will soon be changing to a Lion IV to take more advantage of my whole build. I have heard good things about the Snyder's 5.5:1 as well. There are a lot of choices out there but, when I looked, I decided that Snyder's gave the best bang for the buck. BTW, I will be selling my 6:1 when I take it off. There was also a Weber downdraft setup for sale here or Fordbarn for a good price not long ago, it may still be for sale. As far as HP, you'd be surprised that a couple updrafts or early downdraft carbs really open up the breathing. Try to keep your build balanced though. These flathead engines seem to really respond to reducing the drag on the induction side. Check out Piriano's Model A site, they have a bunch of dyno sheets from all kinds of combinations. I started there to plan out which changes would do the most and in which order. As far as suppliers, Piriano's, Snyder's and Bert's Model A have all been great people to deal with. I am sure there are others, but these are the folks that I happen to have dealt with. Have fun! I know I have had a blast with my car in the last 2 years.
Slow down a bit. This may be why you are always short of cash. Get the car running with the stock banger. Drive it some and see if it is a good motor before you throw $$$ for hop-up parts. Changing the head and carburetor is not going to make that much difference. Back many pages I suggested that you figure out the condition of the bearings before sticking much money in it. People say that the flathead can be a bottomless money pit when rebuilding and I would add the banger to that list.
Lol maybe but I’m just learning what’s out there and coming up with a shopping list. I’m not buying any of that right now.
For some reason I want to say the cam gear in mine is steel but now I can’t remember for sure. I’ll keep an eye on it definitely. Is there a way to lubricate the moving parts in the bellhousing without contaminating the clutch?
If you really want a 39 trans then start looking for a 37 39 empty case. The gears from a 46 48 column shift trans will fit right into it and they have better synchros. Tha'ts what I put in my 31 AV8. Cases can go anywhere from 75 bucks to 100 bucks and the last 46 48 trans I bought was $35.00 and it was rebuilt.
I just received my Lion Head. It is a III not a IV, my mistake. I am looking forward to feeling a difference in the overall power band. Earlier post said "carb and head won't make much difference". Only about 20 to 25% for a fairly mild head. I would call that a DIFFERENCE. Flathead engines don't have much flow capacity (RPM) so torque is where they make power and the higher compression provides a direct increase in the torque capability. The stock head was about 4.2:1 compression so the Joe Ford Owner of the 1930's could run on whatever gas was available. We have more reliable gasoline so we can take advantage of higher compression. Also, the higher compression is more efficient so less heat is lost into the engine and the top end will run cooler. With babbit bearings, the recommendation is to stay at 6:1 or less. With insert bearings you can go a little higher but more than 7:1 is only for really serious racey stuff. Now, if the rest of the engine is junk, the higher compression will greatly reduce the time to the next rebuild.
I have replaced the head on mine with a higher compression head and it did not make much difference. The motor is rated at 40 hp. A Model B is rated at 50 hp. From what I have read, a stock Model A motor probably does not do the 40 hp. 20% is 8 hp. I question if I saw that. Probably half that. I also have a Model B for comparison. I think the Model B has a larger carburetor and a different cam but someone can probably correct me on that. The point that I tried to make is focus on evaluating the current condition of the motor before sticking a bunch of money into it. If it was mine and the motor is in good shape, I would throw money at hop-up parts just for the fun of it but I also have had several bangers that would need to be rebabbitted before I would want to use again.
I agree fully. Like I said, hop up parts aren't even in the budget right now. This motor won't be getting anything until I feel confident in using it as a runabout. I'm just trying to get some ideas so I can plan ahead.
Trevor how far away are you from taking that old car for a spin around the block. I just happen to have a front floorboard pattern I made from the A I worked on awhile back. I'll come by in the next week or two and see if it will fit.
Genebob, Please report back on what you find with your's. It is always interesting in finding out what others do and the results. Someday I am going to build up a banger to use since the flathead V-8's have become the new bellybutton motor.
I ordered the last few parts I need for the fuel system last night. I have an issue with the e-brake to chase down. After that I just need some kind of seating solution... I was going to just bolt down the Mercedes 2x4 that's in there but it's all at kind of a fucked up angle. I have those parts of a Model A seat so I think I'll make the missing parts out of wood for now and throw a mattress pad and Mexican blanket over the springs. That should be ok for now.
When the rear driver side wheel locks up, you can whack the drum with a hammer and it will unlock for a few revolutions before catching again. I'm quite sure it's the e-brake but I don't have a puller and the drum doesn't want to come off the easy way. I'll borrow one from O'Reilly tomorrow while I'm running around.
you really should have the correct puller, doubt O'reilly's will have one. the real deal pulls on that ring around the hub, not off the studs or the outside of the drum. you could try, but if its on correct, its on tight
I've sometimes had luck with backing off the axle nut and rocking the car side to side with the wheels on the ground, or a short drive. The correct puller is definitely the best option though
If you have a welder and cutting torch, here's the home made one i made many, many, years ago, never failed me yet. used a threaded shaft from one of my other pullers, a long fine thread nut, like from a rear end U bolt, and cut the notch so close tolerance that you have to hammer it on. 3/8 thick i think.
I have a welder but no cutting torch yet, too big of an investment for something I won't use very much at this stage. O'Reilly's 3-jaw puller should work as it can be adjusted to where the arms will grab the ridge on the hub. If it doesn't work I will buy one of the early Ford pullers on eBay, which are pretty much the same idea as what you made.
A 3 jaw puller can break out a small section of the lip. I haven't done this exact pull, but have tried the 3 jaw on other stuff with a lip and it will break the lip of the part before popping the part loose. Try other options like Dedsoto mentioned. The owners back in the 30s didn't have all the special tools either, and they didn't have a 3 jaw to borrow.
I tried rocking the car to no avail. I can’t take it around the block right now either as something is sticking and won’t let it roll forward.
The nut on the rear axle is torqued to 200 ft lbs, so you can imagine the press that hub has on the tapered axle. Using a 3 jaw puller on the edge of the drum is just going to tweak it and then it will be junk. There's got to be a guy around with one of the KR Wilson pullers you can borrow.
If you have a hub I can use for a pattern/mock up kinda deal, I can probably make you up a puller like I've seen on several other threads. Maybe even just the dimensions would work. It looks fairly basic.
There is excellent advice here to not get ahead of yourself. I was not suggesting that you go straight to high compression and a Weber carb. My intent was to point to where you can find information and about some possible deals that I have seen recently. On that note, FordGarage.com is where I got my information on compression ratios. There are a few articles written by Larry Brumfield that talk about proper head installation and torquing, as well as compression ratios for babbitt versus insert bearings. It is one of many good sources for information on stock as well as performance parts. I am still collecting the parts for the Lion III install but cannot wait to feel the results. Check out Pirianos dyno sheets and you will be impressed with how you can get to 55 to 65 HP pretty quickly. Beyond 70 HP gets more expensive. I am interpreting what I see but these engines seem to respond to less drag on flow through the manifolds, a cam that opens the valves enough and compression. Pretty standard performance stuff except the flatheads seem to really respond to what would be considered over carburation on an OHV V8. Anyway, buy the correct puller for your rear drums. It is annoying to spend that much on a special tool but the correct tool works.
I am in the same boat on the rear hub situation. I just ordered a puller from Vintage Precision, it’s the improved version of the old KR Wilson puller but better. It clamps around the hub and has a plate inside it to protect the axle end. 150 bucks but it’s way better than tearing up an axle
That bottle jack one looks scary I have a big piece of heavy plate we can cut up to make something. I can bring it over there but I’m not sure when my next day off will be.
Anytime is fine with me. You can come see my project in person! I've got some plate here as well, but bring what you got. Do you have a hub that is already off to use as a gauge for the opening? If not, make a cardboard template of how big the opening needs to be. I bet we can knock that out with no problem! Probably need to pick up a fine thread Grade 8 bolt, maybe 1/2" and a nut to go along with it.
The Jalopy Journal
