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Technical Reusing old Ford spindles and kingpins

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by Boxcar's 1928, Mar 1, 2021.

  1. Boxcar's 1928
    Joined: Aug 30, 2011
    Posts: 771

    Boxcar's 1928
    Member

    Need some guidance on something I'm working on. I've got a 37-41 front axle assembly that I've broke down last night.... I plan to reuse the round back spindles with the addition of new bushings (supplier unknown) I was considering the potential use of the kingpins (supplier unknown) but suspect that as there is some level of wear to the bearing surfaces....they are typically replaced.. Is that correct? At the time of this post...I have yet to search suppliers....recommendations?

    FWIW....I've got a new 4in drop axle that I'll be throwing all these used parts at...hopefully there's no surprises.

    Trying to understand the steps to sync a new kingpin to a new bushing in a new axle. Any input is appreciated.

    R/
    Boxcar
     
    Big mike 1968 likes this.
  2. Doublepumper
    Joined: Jun 26, 2016
    Posts: 1,534

    Doublepumper
    Member
    from WA-OR, USA

    Last one I did I just bought a kit, pressed in the new bushings and reamed them to fit the new pins. Sometimes used pins are ok to reuse as long as they mic out ok....I like new. There are several different suppliers out there, I'm not sure of any quality differences between them.
     
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  3. You will need to replace the king pins along with the bushings... and the bushings will have to be reamed or honed after they are installed.
     
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  4. adam401
    Joined: Dec 27, 2007
    Posts: 2,856

    adam401
    Member

    Are the kingpins tight in the spindle now with no slop? If yes just run them. If theyre sloppy buy a kit and install and ream the bushings or have it done at a machine shop.
    I personally would and do run original kingpins if they're in passable shape with new bushings but thats me
     

  5. rusty valley
    Joined: Oct 25, 2014
    Posts: 3,883

    rusty valley
    Member

    new pins and bushings are cheap to assure a nice handling car. what brand of new axle have you bought, there are some bad ones out there
     
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  6. Boxcar's 1928
    Joined: Aug 30, 2011
    Posts: 771

    Boxcar's 1928
    Member

    Cant speak Chinese.... No idea, no mfgr info...a Swapmeet buy. Fingers crossed.
     
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  7. Doublepumper
    Joined: Jun 26, 2016
    Posts: 1,534

    Doublepumper
    Member
    from WA-OR, USA

    The only thing to watch out for, whether you do it or a shop does it, is to use a piloted ream on the bushings. Without one the bushings will be reamed out of line and bind up when the spindle is rotated.
    This ream is specifically intended for reaming king pin bushings:
    ream.jpg
     
  8. Boxcar's 1928
    Joined: Aug 30, 2011
    Posts: 771

    Boxcar's 1928
    Member

    So before I broke it all down...everything was pretty stove up (tight) but it was a mess. One side the bushings came out in pieces...the other side, both were together.

    I did randomly mic the pin and while rotating in a few places...I did find a few thou variance here and there (after having cleaned them up with a wire wheel) Would like to avoid a machine shop bill if I could accomplish the job.

    I'm not sure if I'm adequately informed to attempt a reamer operation. I'm assuming that is not a...dare I say Hand job...sorry
     
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  9. bchctybob
    Joined: Sep 18, 2011
    Posts: 5,190

    bchctybob
    Member

    What Doublepumper said... It's important to have the correct reamer but if you have a good old front end or truck repair shop nearby they may have a Sunnen hone that's set up for honing king pin bushings. They absolutely must be reamed or honed on the same centerline for the king pins to slide in properly. I wouldn't have any problem reusing the old king pins if they are smooth and mike out good. Chances are they are made of better stuff than the reproduction parts we get these days.
     
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  10. rusty valley
    Joined: Oct 25, 2014
    Posts: 3,883

    rusty valley
    Member

    there is a guy on the barn that does bushings with a long wooden dowel with emery paper ! i dont recommend it, but its been done by many i am sure. the reamer shown by doublepumper is the home method, but not worth buying unless you plan more than one use. most folks have an engine shop hone them on a sunnen hone for a perfect fit and usually around 50 bucks. new bushings are made smaller than the pin so they can be machined to size after being installed. the pins wont go in without it
     
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  11. adam401
    Joined: Dec 27, 2007
    Posts: 2,856

    adam401
    Member

    I believe its a long .812 reamer. Maybe someone near you will help a brother out if you install them. I dont know what kinda car scene youve got near you.
    Id consider not using a possibly cheap cast axle. It may be a good quality axle you bought but without any marks its a little suspect. I'm a guy that builds on a budget but I like Henry axles. It might be fine. You'll see I guess.
     
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  12. bchctybob
    Joined: Sep 18, 2011
    Posts: 5,190

    bchctybob
    Member

    It used to be one or two uses and the reamer would pay for itself but I just looked and they are $120 - up. I paid $85 for mine 25 years ago. You may find that a machine shop bill is in your future unless you have a friend who has a reamer.
    Depending on the axle you will probably have to reshape the steering arms on each spindle. There are threads on here on how to do it.
     
  13. Fordors
    Joined: Sep 22, 2016
    Posts: 5,372

    Fordors
    Member

    Nobody is going to look down on you, but for your own personal safety can you post a photo of the axle you bought?
     
    clem likes this.
  14. wheeldog57
    Joined: Dec 6, 2013
    Posts: 3,181

    wheeldog57
    Member

    I did the same as what you are describing here not long ago. I bought a kingpin set from Speedway (I know, cheap stuff) and brought everything to a shop. $120.00 done. Normally I like do do everything myself but I am very happy with the deal.
     
  15. Boxcar's 1928
    Joined: Aug 30, 2011
    Posts: 771

    Boxcar's 1928
    Member

    The car scene around me sucks (as far as I can tell) NW Florida. There is an old school shop near but I'm a little suspect of their practices.

    I just sent an email to a local machine shop that I respect...will see if he asks me to drop by. Told him that I can show with all the parts for him to better understand the job/quote. Suspect I'll go ahead and finish cleaning the parts, primer and paint so I don't have to brake it all down to paint later. I'm early in the build but could touchup on it later I suppose.

    A friend of mine thought I was crazy when I told him how hot I had to get those holes to drive the damn pins out...he acted as if he's never heard of such nonsense. I suspect he's either never done it himself or nothing this early. Am I missing something? I had ti use a oxy/Acetly rig and torch with a cheap propane torch blowing on the otherside...then I used both an air hammer w/punch and a brass pin and mini slege to drive em out.
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2021
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  16. rusty valley
    Joined: Oct 25, 2014
    Posts: 3,883

    rusty valley
    Member

    you need an engine rebuilder shop, thats where to find a sunnen hone, normally used to fit piston pins
     
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  17. Boxcar's 1928
    Joined: Aug 30, 2011
    Posts: 771

    Boxcar's 1928
    Member

    Sure....here ya go. Overall, I thought it looked as clean as a typical Speedway or Lucky. Suspect I'll take a flap wheel to the casting marks before I paint. I'm going for well executed with what I have available. This will not be a runway car.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Mar 1, 2021
  18. Jmountainjr
    Joined: Dec 29, 2006
    Posts: 1,672

    Jmountainjr
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    What is the new front axle? There are a lot of cast axles on the market, but you should stay away from them. Do some reading on the subject. If you ask around you may have a friend, or a friend of a friend, that has the correct size adjustable piloted reamer to do the kingpin bushings. And the reamer is a hand job. If not, take them to a shop to get them done either with a reamer or a machine hone, like a Sunnen. Don't try to use a ball hone, brake cylinder hone, emery paper, etc.
     
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  19. Boxcar's 1928
    Joined: Aug 30, 2011
    Posts: 771

    Boxcar's 1928
    Member

    Got it Jim. I believe it'll go to a shop so it's done right. This is what I got. It'll be fine up until it's not I guess. Maybe the shop can give me some additional perspective on it once they look it over and size up the job.
     
  20. rusty valley
    Joined: Oct 25, 2014
    Posts: 3,883

    rusty valley
    Member

    only the spindles need to go to a shop, not the axle. you can put the bushings in at home, dont forget to line up the grease zerk hole
     
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  21. lostone
    Joined: Oct 13, 2013
    Posts: 2,820

    lostone
    Member
    from kansas

    yeah just take the king pin kit complete with NEW pins and just the spindles to a shop and have them install and fit them.

    I've done more sets than I can count on all my fingers and toes and thats going around them several times!

    want to have fun, try doing it on semi truck spindles, those are always a blast....

    If you decide to do it yourself, do yourself a big favor and buy an adjustable reamer, I would'nt own or use a one size reamer. I prefer to take small cuts and work up to my final fit. With the adjustable reamer I can put the bushing to pin fit anywhere I want it to be.

    honestly thinking about it after the last 40 yrs I've probably done several hundred sets.....
     
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  22. Check the pin you are going to use,and make sure they fit the axle.I bought a new axle from SoCal,and the king pin wouldnt drop in.....at all. I had the end reamed to fit the pit. As for the spindles.....dont put the new bushings in,and pay to ream them until you have the steering arms figured out.Often they need to be heated ,and bent.You dont want to heat new bushings you just paid for only to find the heat affected them some how,and their now looser.Save the fitting until your sure of your steering arm set up.
     
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  23. rusty valley
    Joined: Oct 25, 2014
    Posts: 3,883

    rusty valley
    Member

    very good point ^^^^, keep the old king pins and bushings in until the plan comes together
     
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  24. deucemac
    Joined: Aug 31, 2008
    Posts: 1,483

    deucemac
    Member

    I agree with Rusty Valley. I have both reamed and honed king pin bushings and get lots longer life by honing. Hand reams almost always chatter to some extent. That leaves high spots that quickly flatten out and the fit is now slightly loose and shortens the life of the bushings. A good operator using a Sunnen pin hone can give you the precise clearance you need without chatter and longer bushing life. Just my 2 cents worth, I have been doing them for over 50 years (darn, I feel old just admitting that!) and learned from practice?
     
  25. I would put the spindles on the axle and see if the steering arms will swing lock-to-lock.

    If you need to heat and bend the arms; you will want to use the old kingpins and thrust bearing along with the old bushings in the spindles.

    Maybe see where the tie rod needs to go if you are bending things.
     
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  26. Gary Addcox
    Joined: Aug 28, 2009
    Posts: 2,528

    Gary Addcox
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    For a lifetime fit, you might try the needle bearing kits that replace bronze bushings and eliminate honing/reaming. They are not cheap but outlast the car if lubricated occasionally. Also, you can do the job and save labor from someone else.
     
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  27. Fordors
    Joined: Sep 22, 2016
    Posts: 5,372

    Fordors
    Member

    The reason I asked was to see if you bought a cast or forged axle. I see what look like forging laps that have been ground to smooth them out. The upper and lower forging dies extrude material and it will be 3/8”wide C8AFF4AE-5E05-48C1-9422-DF64374CCC37.jpeg or greater, a casting would only have a narrow, knife edged look to it rather than the wide one seen in your photos.
     
  28. Budget36
    Joined: Nov 29, 2014
    Posts: 13,173

    Budget36
    Member

    I’ve always wondered about those. I’ve some questions on how to use it, but if you explain the process it will save my thumbs some work from me asking them;)
     
    Boxcar's 1928 likes this.
  29. Michael Ottavi
    Joined: Dec 3, 2008
    Posts: 266

    Michael Ottavi
    Member

    This is what the warning about cast axles is all about. I would not go any further with your project till I was 100% sure you have a forged axle. My ribs still hurt after this failure years later. fullsizeoutput_7e3.jpeg
     
  30. Budget36
    Joined: Nov 29, 2014
    Posts: 13,173

    Budget36
    Member

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