That's a good idea. I went out there to try it and the starter no longer works. This thing really wants me to replace it with a V8.
Trevor, sorry to hear about the engine. Have you looked into spark-knock? I hadn’t heard of it until after I test drove a potential Model A project that was knocking and rattling really badly. Maybe your knock has to do with timing? (I know it seems like that’s all I ever talk about, but it could be it!) A thread on the subject here: https://fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=75340&showall=1 Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
Hoping it’s just something vibrating that I haven’t found yet. It comes and goes and usually isn’t that loud. It doesn’t seem to get louder or faster when revving. If it is a knock and the engine needs to be rebuilt I am going to skip to the V8. I want the experience of driving and maybe hopping up the banger but I can live without it.
Have you tried adding a load to the motor and see if it gets louder? That tells a whole lot.. Bendix on starter is a pretty easy fix, alot of times its the spring that broke. You can rob one off the av8 starter and it should go right on.
Sounds like a broken valve spring with a floating valve, but if there isn't blue smoke out of the tailpipe, maybe not. Did the knocking start about the same time that the starter was going south? I wonder if the bendix is rattling against the flywheel?
It was working fine up til that last time. I am wondering if the bendix failed to retract after starting. The starter housing seemed hot after I shut the engine off. I bumped it this morning on my way out of the house and it is engaging the flywheel again. A stuck/malfunctioning valve was my first thought too but it wasn’t smoking. I wasn’t able to stop the noise by adjusting the timing. I think it’s weird that it comes and goes while the engine is idling without any apparent pattern. I’ll start it this evening and see if I can pin it down.
This assembly has been asleep for over a decade, with no idea what condition it was in when set aside. Small or large problems could have been there back then and others can develop now that it's running again. The noise in the video is slightly worrying, but can be identified and resolved. It almost sounds like a chunk of something loose that gets picked up and bounced around. Just as having it run again will clear up some slumbering issues, expect some things that were marginal before to fail now. The starter will probably respond to a bit of cleaning and lubing. These early mechanical wonders required a lot more maintenance than modern stuff, but are easy to understand and repair. I'd rather see you get this motor happy and ready for a buyer at a good price instead of getting frustrated with it and pulling it out to set aside without fixing or selling it off for scrap price. Each bit you can fix for little or no money builds experience too, which will help during the swap and running the V8.
Dumping the banger if it starts giving me problems isn't so much out of impatience but rather a budget minded decision. I don't want to tie up thousands in rebuilding an engine that I was already planning to replace eventually anyway. Of course I will spend the time trying to save it if I can, it would be stupid to toss it out without diagnosing it. No time to mess with it today but I ended up off work tomorrow so will have all day to tinker.
I fired it up today. Once again I didn't hear the noise until the engine warmed up. I took the oil filler cap off and "the noise" is definitely coming from inside the engine as I can hear it quite clearly by listening to the filler tube. I put the car in third gear and explored different throttle settings to see if it got louder with the engine under load. I can't tell if it only makes the noise at idle or if I just can't hear it once the engine gets noisy, but either way it doesn't get louder or more frequent when revving up under load, nor does the engine seem to vibrate unhealthily. That said: after I shut it off and restarted it, there was an unpleasant, occasional squealing noise coming from somewhere. I now fear oil isn't circulating through the engine. I'm going to drain the oil and look for glitter. Then I might switch to a high detergent diesel oil, which worked wonders for my V8.
I don't want to be a fly in the ointment but I think you and joey both need to skip to flathead. The money you spend putting this together as a banger with mech brakes is not saving money, it is costing money that could be spent on the av8 project and you still only have vehichle to drive for short trips. just my .02 good luck no matter which way you choose Tom
In addition to what studebaker46 said, DO NOT put high detergent oil in that engine!!! That thing probably has years of accumulated dirt and grunge in all of its little nooks and crannies, and the last thing you wat todo break 40 year old sludge and flush it through an inadequate (by today's standards) lube system. Drain (for evaluation purposes) and refill with 30 or 40 wt. NON-detergent oil (IF you can find it, if not, use LOW-detergent). If your ultimate goal is to have a flathead V8 stop messing with the 4 banger and move on before you induce catastrophic damage... the market for scrap 4 bangers is not all that great. Now...about those mechanical brakes...DON'T (regardless of what some 'experts' on here may tell you) spend more time, energy and money on 80+ year old safety technology! Keep yourself and others on the road safe, and go to hydraulics. If you can't afford it now, when will you be able to????
I have most of a '40 brake system, less master cylinder and pedal, awaiting rebuilt. I am not interested in converting the 4 cylinder chassis to hydraulics at this time. I don't feel like I need to repeat my reasons for doing that once again, my reasoning is the same as Joey's and most here feel that reasoning is completely sound.
Tom, your input is greatly appreciated. Both @trevorsworth and I will make our A-V8s happen. We're building these cars on shoestring budgets and learning as we go. In both of our cases, space and tools are just about as limited as the money. I can only speak for myself here, but I've enjoyed learning about Henry's early systems so that I can enjoy the more advanced systems of the '40s and '50s when the time comes. Besides, I plan to keep my car in the family for a long, long time. It's fun to enjoy the process.
When I started - knowing nothing - I planned to just dive in and build a V8 hot rod. But the more I learned and saw, the more I felt like I was skipping a step. This isn't just about having a cool hot rod anymore - it's about experiencing something that happened well before my time. I didn't grow up around these cars. In fact, I've never seen a stock Model A on the road, let alone driven one. After exploring the scene more, the thought of skipping straight to a V8 without ever driving a banger-powered car feels a bit like paying for your lady's implants before you meet her. If I had just got a bare body, I wouldn't have gone looking for the 4 cylinder, but this one came with my car... It's there, I might as well give it a shot. I want to retrace the steps of the early hot rodders and get the firsthand knowledge that a lot of guys my age don't get. Some of you guys lived it, but I didn't. 4 bangers and mechanical brakes are mundane to some of you, but to me it's an experience I missed. The car will eventually have a V8 and hydraulic brakes - unless the banger bug bites me so hard I end up building a separate AV8 (which is totally a possibility - I have about half a chassis worth of separate parts right now). I just want to know where I'm coming from.
I ordered something from eBay the other day, so I wasn't too surprised to find a package in my mailbox when I got home today, although it would have been a little early. However, when I rolled it over and saw @J.Ukrop's name on it I didn't waste any time tearing into it. I don't know where he dug this thing up, but my eyes just about popped out of my head when I saw it. It took a lot of self control to tuck it away in a safe place rather than go slap it on the rear window immediately. I'm super stoked for the day this decal goes on the car where it belongs. Joey also came up with another Flathead Ted floating brake kit and sent it over my way! I'm just gonna pretend the banger isn't possibly a boat anchor and dive in on the next warm, dry day we get. I've said this before but the generosity around this place is just outstanding. I'm looking forward to being in a position to pay it forward (and back, as called for!). If I hadn't posted this thread, I think I would have given up on the V8 in frustration and never wound up with my dream ride.
@trevorsworth, it's been inspiring seeing your progress on this project. I've experienced the generosity of the H.A.M.B. firsthand on my thread, and there's no better feeling than having friends help you with your build. Feel free to give me a shout when you're digging into the brakes. I have a ton of pictures and videos on my install that I can send your way—plus tips on how to not waste a whole lot of time. Keep up the great work!
The sun is shining today, so I decided it'd be a good time to get the brake rods installed. My e-brake is fully functional! The service brakes, not so much. I got them freed up enough to roll again. Hopefully I'll be able to back it out soon so I can get the wheels (and that extra fender) off and get into the brakes properly.
May I suggest either a pool noodle or a couple cardboard boxes next to the running board brackets once all the fenders are off? Also, I saw on another thread that a poster had found a restoration place that supplied every fastener needed for the body for $100 all bagged and tagged!
Man, installing those brake rods on the passenger side, working around the fender and exhaust, was a pain in the ass, but I did it. I have working brakes, emergency and service, on all four corners... adjustment notwithstanding. I'll have to pop one end of each rod back off when the replacement springs come in but it won't be hard now that everything's in place. I guess tomorrow I'll try to back it out under its own power... I'll need to find a way to secure the lawnmower gas tank temporarily but otherwise it should be able to move and stop forward and back no problem. Not gonna risk going around the block yet but maybe forward and back in the street just for grins. Fortunately the running board brackets are held on by bolts and not rivets like my other frame. I'm assuming that's aftermarket... this frame may have been a hay wagon at one time. I have left the driver side pair on so far because they give me something to grab on to when moving around under the car! That kind of fastener set is exactly what I need. I'm gonna go digging for that. In other news, while I was working under there I found out the speedometer gear/housing just isn't there at all, so that's another ~$65 to lay down, and also an oil leak. Fun side note: I kept feeling dead grass and stuff touching me while I was down there. Frustrated with the lack of light, I dragged a shop light under there and lit her up. I REALLY wish I hadn't. There were spiders EVERYWHERE. Apparently I disrupted a few egg sacs. I'm not arachnophobic, but stuck down there the way I was with just a few inches of wiggle room...
What's a good grease for the Model A's chassis lube points? I have Sta-Lube premium red - is that ok? Should I use different greases for different points? I assume a good chassis lube is not necessarily a good water pump lube etc.
I completely understand your point about wanting to live with the original Model A. I bought one about 2 years ago and originally wanted to build a hot rod but I have ended up with a pretty serious banger. I went back and forth on the brakes and ended up with the Flathead Teds kits on the mechanical brakes. The mechanicals are a brass plated bitch to get working well but are impressive once they are truly working. Here is the down side to where you are starting with your mechanical brakes; you need to be willing to completely disassemble all four corners and rebuild with known good parts before you will have half a chance of ever having good mechanical brakes. These cars have been around so long that many a shade tree mechanic has had a chance to totally defeat the correct function of these brakes. If I had known at the start what I know now, I would have gone to hydraulics and never looked back. Of course, going to hydraulics will cost a good chunk of money too.
Dude, awesome! I'll get in touch in just a sec! Lying on my back down there fighting with rods and clevis pins and sticking brake levers has definitely shown me why hydraulics are cleaner and easier. But still... I need to know how to do this. It's hard to explain, but I think everyone here knows the feeling. I think I'd feel like a chump hanging out with the Model A guys if I didn't at least try the mechanicals first. The chassis is all lubed up. One step closer!
RE: Grease - various levels BEST Restoration - remove, clean and inspect each component. Repair/replace to original finish and specifications of clearance. Lube with OE or better to provide proper anti-corrosion and support for surfaces. Expect as new operation. Working - clean and inspect each component and fix wear that would hinder normal operation. Lube with OE or better to provide proper anti-corrosion and support for surfaces. Expect reasonable operation with possible minor faults. GOOD Get it to not causing more damage - shim or adjust to take up worn components if possible. Lube with something correct or similar to provide proper anti-corrosion and support for surfaces. Expect less than optimum operation. Try first - lube to flush grit and hope it works long enough to operate for testing while not expecting normal operation and service intervals. FAIR Try without any work - accept that it may cause damage, but just want to check operation before any attempt to fix. Have you turned the steering wheel, pushed the car around and worked the pedals? It probably won't hurt anything, but it could. Expect to at least lube if not inspect and repair before repeated (not normal) operation. POOR Rinse off with pressure wash or solvent, no lube - removing any trace of lube and allowing the surfaces to contact while possibly leaving grit. Different levels of complexity in accessing the components and damage that could result means the parts will be treated differently. You have to determine using your level of experience, ability and comfort level with cost and time which level is acceptable for you.
The Jalopy Journal
