Folks Of Interest Early 50's Brakes - Disc and Drums

Those look like a variation of the Kinmonts, don't they?

Or maybe it's the other way around. . .

 

Kinmonts came first. They were based on the Milan brakes:
"Joseph M. Milan, an exotic car mechanic, recorded the first of his 10 disc brake patents back in 1936. Allegedly, the basic design was patterned after a clutch-like brake assembly used on mobile World War I German heavy artillery pieces. Relentless researcher Fitzhugh traced the first competition use of the Milan-style brake to a 1941 Indy 500 race car owned by Joe Lencki and driven that year by Emil Andres."*

There is a cool set of the Milan brakes at the Speedway Motors museum. I have pics somewhere but couldn't find them if my life depended on it. You can obviously tell they are an ancestor of the Kinmonts.

I'd bet the Ausco-Lambert engineers were aware of Kinmonts and used some of the elements in their design. Maybe someone can search the patent records for their design?

* https://www.hotrod.com/articles/kinmont-disc-brakes-myth-and-reality/

 

Bibendum is actually Latin for drinking. Early ads showed him raising a glass full of road hazards.
The TR3 didn't come out until 1955 and had drums until 1956. The OP appears to be looking for something larger.

 

I'm already a poser on this forum. Just collecting parts piles, and watching you guys play.

In any event, this may be on topic, or not.

.. but who doesn't love knock off hubs, hand formed, louvered panels, cut down windscreens, C types, side exhaust, and flat out '50's racing ??

Spoiler Alert : Stirling Moss, Norman Dewis, Jaguar, Dunlop, and flogging early disc brakes for the win.

 

/\ that car
are the hubs from a 1950-53 gm production vehicle and made by dana spicer - drum bolts on the back
what gm car of the era has a zerk fitting accessible from the front of vehicle after removing wheel cap
where is the steering rack from - is that aircraft - is it a steering rack?
are the diff parts dana
does it have for example a live axle from a 53 ford f100 - dana
jeep shafts,
seperate rear hub flanges - keyed and wedgemated like the front
where else is a bolt in stubby axle - stub axle wedgemated and bolted to the up right - trunnion on a front spindle like a jaag

 

The Dunlop one puck calipers show up on the 'Bay auction site, regularly. Set in Pennsylvania as we speak. Dunno' how "exotic" you want.

Not the 3 piston C type version, but likely well enough.

1957 - '61 >>>



.. and the 3 pistons >>>

https://www.jaguarheritage.com/jaguar-history/jaguar-engineering/disc-brakes/

Yes. Unobtainium.

 

Found some more info to add to this. Lotus was running Girling AR and possibly BR brakes on their little 1956 Lotus 11 with DeDion rear suspension. These Girling calipers seem to be pretty much the same up through the early 70's. GT40's I believe ran Girling CR and BR calipers (front/rear). Also seems these are now being reproduced and looking authentic to the originals. Anyone familiar with these Girling calipers?

Pretty spicy lookin' setup for 1956!

 

Is that just a giant torque tube setup or am I just seeing things??

Sent from my moto z4 using The H.A.M.B. mobile app

 

its keeping the wheels upright, but snaking around the diff house
=non altering contact patch, no camber change, sliding driveshafts = non independant
verses 1961 jag irs
lower control arm / driveshaft - = parrrrallelogram I=I
non sliding drive shaft, but camber change = contact patch. /=I

what is interesting is the location of the 4 bar being behind the centre line
this is where you see a diagonal track locator = no idea?

 

It's a De Dion rear suspension arrangement. There are several variations of this concept. This arrangement is still used today in several applications. Here's an article discussing it a bit.

https://www.uniquecarsandparts.com.au/auto_terms_de_dion_suspension

 

Yeah, or in several cases a watts link with these types of setups for lateral placement. It seems they've flipped the 4-link mounting and the locating link, which is also diagonal in the forward direction, as seen in this picture on the passenger side and up to the back of the driveshaft tunnel. Interesting. Wonder if this was to get the links as long as possible given the layout of the drive's position and the rear firewall.



Without getting too far off-topic, I have to say, I'm fascinated by these early De Dion setups. Would love to set one up. This could go off in a huge tangent. HAHA

 

Here is a 60's style Alfa Romeo DeDion, with trailing arms, coil mounts, and the Watts link on the torque tube. VERY good handling. They also had a version with a transaxle built in.

 

Yes, the Ferraris and Maseratis used the transaxle. Probably others too, I suppose.

 

Sorry guys! I derailed this conversation. I should have seen that coming. HAHA! Cool stuff!

Let's get back to brakes.

Talk to me about Girling brakes. Seems they were SUPER common on a lot of race cars from the early/mid 50's on up. Does anyone have experience with any of the reproduction brakes and from which of the current makers? Seems Girling today, no longer makes these types of calipers.

 

German manufacturer used the 2 piston Girlings in early '60's. British manufacturer used 3 piston Girlings in one of their "2nd vowel" types.

Can I say those manufacturers ?? Haha.

Honestly, in my wheel house a little. Playing around with upgrading older, original imports .. with unobtainable service parts. Now a days, easier than what it was 20 years prior.

Used to have to cross reference U.S. parts, and sleeve appropriately. Or wait on overseas rebuilders to help the cause. I worked close to an airport, who had a willing machinist, that was "one of those" 50's/60's era import owners.

Both the 2 & 3 piston calipers are .. yes, reproduced. I would just rebuild whatever decent originals you can find. They are a click away, usually.

This is a fun thread.

 

Is that technically traditional (not asking to be a dick)? I had a very vivid dream about putting that rear end with a transaxle in into a model a coupe.

 

They had them in Allards, and other early specials. I had the same idea RE the transaxle, but I think the whole unit is too long to fit before interfering with the front seats. Perhaps not. Using a DeDion from a 50's sports car might also have too narrow of a track, so you'd have to widen everything. But it could be done ifn you are crafty and skilled.

 

Anyone happen to have a resource that compares or cross-references the different Girling calipers? Seems the BR and CR type calipers were used from the mid-50's up through the mid-60's for performance applications (and longer). But there also seem to be some calipers that look very similar or maybe identical that are not labled as BR or CR calipers. Like maybe they were cross-utilized for OEM applications. Ford really seemed to use these BR and CR type calipers quite a bit.

Thoughts? Info?

 

I realize this is an old post, but it just popped up in a search so maybe one of you can help ID this inboard brake rear-end assembly, and what it may have been used in. I originally purchased it for the 50's Chrysler total contact brakes, which are fitted with Buick drums, and the 16x7 Halibrands that came with it to use on my Kurtis 500S. It's a Ford banjo converted to an open driveline with what appears to be bracketry for DeDion or swing arm-style suspension. A friend thought possibly Allard, although they were mounted from the top. Interestingly, it seems to have a spool in it though, so a road-race car seems unlikely, but swing axles mean a drag car is unlikely. That got me wondering about an Indy, Champ, or Sprint car. The same Chrysler/Buick front brakes came with it though, so that gets me thinking of a sports car again. Thoughts?