Technical ***February 2021 Banger Meet Thread - 6 More Weeks Shop Time!***

Looks like fun, I sure hope it has the compressor oil seal installed.

 

On purpose,it so the purists can have one and still claim their purity...some kind of weird repressed reaction,like an abused altar boy

 

Talked to the guy on facebook. Apparently the engine has a stock head, .100 over, with stainless valves, adjustable lifters, inserts, and a balanced rotating assembly but still using the splash system.

What's interesting is he has an electric pump for oil pressure to the turbo.
I'm curious to see how the merc tea-pot carb works with it.

 

Looks like a really big turbo for the little A engine.

 

I spotted a turbocharged diesel in a little warehouse forklift sitting in a local scrap yard last fall. The turbo was maybe 6" diameter if I recall correctly. I didn't have time to grab it, but there are a lot of little 6' to 8' willows growing around it, so it's been there a while. Not a lot of danger of it disappearing.

It's been keeping my imagination busy all winter.

 

Why would it not have an oil seal in the compressor?

 

A lot of turbos did not have an oil seal in the compressor housing because they were not designed for a suck thru system. By putting a carb on the inlet, you basically put the compressor housing at intake vacuum. Without the seal, it pulls the oil from the bearings.
Don't ask me why I know this........
J

 

I have a T04D off a Kubota diesel..
Small turbine,fed a 3000cc diesel (about 185 cuin). My plan is to set it up draw through. A blow through works well with EFI,not so good with a carburetor.Not only does a turbo raise compression, it also raises volumetric effciency through added turbulence. You don't need much boost to affect performance.Un controlled large turbine turbos will cost you in the end,a quality manually controlled waste gate is critical large or small turbine.

 

Without a seal, what would keep pressurized oil from leaking into the compressor. Diesels do not make vacuum, but also do not make boost to hold oil in the bearing chamber unless the engine is under load. Cruising at low speed on flat ground or coasting they make no boost.
I'm not saying you didn't find a turbo without seals, but it makes no sense to build one that way.

 

Typically the oil in the bearing can go to the drain without having the compressor under boost condition. The issue is when you are pulling 15-20 in/hg vacuum, then you will pull the oil from the drain and bearing. Most of the diesel turbos do not have the seal unless there was a inducer vane system, Mercedes for example.
Ak Miller used to rebuild the center sections for me and added the seals when in suck thru systems. I just did the bearings last year in the turbo on my Dodge, it had the slinger, no seal.
Now some of the hot setups are dual ceramic bearings, too rich for my blood.

J

 

Reckon I'd best check for and install a seal if I decide to put the little turbo on my B engine. I also have a little 2.2 Isuzu Diesel in a 83' rust bucket p'up. The plan is to swap that into a clean Ranger pickup and it would probably benefit from a little boost.

 

Draw through will work, the compressor bearing is sealed. Problem is after some operation the fuel air mixture will eat the seal. All piston engines create vacuum. Boost in a diesel, as well as a car is controlled by a waste gate, the hot side is allowed to diverted straight to exhaust 'feathering' the turbine. Draw through with a carburetor is basically easier, the carburetor still sees atmospheric pressure at the horn, as it does with a naturally aspirated system.
A manual waste gate can limit total boost, an automatic gate that works on a vacuum signal moderates boost for drivability. Controlling boost is critical for limiting compression, with a stock head and 3 lbs of boost you go from 4.2 to over 7 to 1.Heres my little TO4D,for scale that exhaust manifold is slightly smaller than an A manifold..itty bitty turbine..

 

Put a Supercharger or Turbo Charger on an Old Iron engine like a T, Model A & B..? Do a whole bunch of study and thought. If not you better wear a "Flack Jacket, LOL! Years (decades) ago I wrecked a lot of stuff before I went to an uncle with experience in pushing fuel in engines in higher pressure! I finally got it somewhat right. The supercharger on this engine is a highly modified Detroit Diesel (including it's own lubrication system). It's mounted on a 4 bolt "Jimmy" truck Small Block; But I still treat it with respect! Having said that I'm glad there are guys "Pushing the Envelope"!

 

Great shot coming down thru the Cork Screw!! John Zanardi in a Hot Rod!!

 

Finally going together, like a porcupine..........

 

Back when I was in the service another mechanic and I worked 'deep six' on Diego Garcia.. the heavy equipment junkyard.. we would pull roots blowers off the Detroit's and ship them back to the states ..back then it was more risk than what is was worth, but we were young and stupid, with hotrod fever..

 

I ran that "Pelican' at Buttonwillow one time! A "Gold chained and silk slacks' dude w/"Arm Candy" came by my Pit Space. Said: "Look Honey, that's a Hot Rod! He'll go fast on the straights; but can't "Corner"!" I went around him on the outside (he in his Cobra Replica) on Turn 2 (a 180 degree, uphill); and sucked his goggles off down the straight with the "Deuce's" thunderous acceleration. Had great fun all weekend; beating the Corvettes, Shelby clones and Cobra replicas! I've always had "Pipe Dreams" about dueling with my friend Bill Pollack (he in Tom Carstens' Cad-Allard) thru the forests of Pebble Beach! But alas: I was too young and broke in the '50's! Bill (he died at 95) when seeing the "deuce" allowed that it'd be a "good race"!

 

John! Who's head is that? The "Cast In" drive towers confuse me!

 

John,
The cam tower is not cast in, just looks like it. I'll show more later after air test verification.
The head is a CREE, developed from the late Bruce Johnson Bee-Jay of Burbank Calif.
The basic design holds a few Bonneville records as of late but more refined than this particular one.

John

 

Hi John can we see a picture of the cumbustion chamber side of the head and a view of the intake and exhaust port sides " Please"

 

No, I am not taking it back off unless I killed a sealing ring.
It is like any other 4 valve head, you can only do so much with it.

J

 

With all my bloviating and chest thumping about my Detroit Supercharged "Deuce"; I forgot to mention a few MORE things one needs to address when stuffing more pressure into an engine. We talked about bottom end strength; but going further up; you gotta get strong (forged) pistons! When putting the rings on those pistons, put a greater than normal gap on the rings. This because you're probably going to create more heat (those rings'll need more gap to expand). Next you need to decide how much boost you want. I've got a drive pulley on my supercharger, the same diameter as the crank pulley (1:1). My max boost is about 8 p.s.i. You can create higher boost by putting a smaller pulley on the "huffer"! Incidentally my rig is pulled by a Gilmer Belt (V-Belts can and will slip). When you set the max pressure you want; the carburetor (s) need to be set up to dispense a charge greater than the pressure of the charger. If they're equal or less the engine won't run well (if at all). I've got two Holley 650? cfm four barrel carburetors modified for my installation. I had a guy that hand more diagnostic equipment and expertise set mine up including a pressure pump! Actually, I've been told that EFI would avoid all that trouble! All that said: get in, buckle up, fire it up, put in gear, hit the pedal and hang on! Don't expect good gas mileage; or near tens and hundreds of reliable miles! It fact don't be surprised if at some time it goes WHUMP!; and the whole "shoot'n match" flies over them house!

 

Yeah, by golly it does look like something Roy would come up with!

 

I get it ..........Was hoping you might have some around from before you installed.....Thanks

 

Steve,
Yeah, sorry, it is sealed up, I might have pics in other boxx.
It is very close to a McDowell style but with 4 holes. The pistons worked out to be McDowell domes and about 11to 1. I am not sure how many are still around, I found one about 3 years ago and it was in pretty bad shape. From what I understand, not many were finished and run, I think there is still a casting set in the Glendale area.

John

 

Thanks John ......Hope to see it run some time...............

 

I had the exhaust off to fix a leaky gasket so I fired up my warmed up banger and let it breath through the open header for a little bit

 

Thanks Steve, It will not fit into existing car. It may be a while........J

 

Dawg, if you push 8lbs though a Model A engine you better have panties on snug, parts are gonna fly..what Im considering might peak at 2.5 lbs or so..street able boost...

 

On the starter bendix ,is a V8 spring the same as a model B spring? Ours is on 12v and the B with the new lighter flywheel just sounds a little harsh when it engages, but it starts quickly. Just thought we should carry a spare spring . Though in all my years of 12v v8s we must have got lucky and have never broken a spring.