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Technical 1940s Ford Steel Rims

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by RobG, Feb 6, 2021.

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  1. RobG
    Joined: Feb 5, 2021
    Posts: 21

    RobG
    Member
    from WA

    I apologize if this has already been answered but I couldn’t find the answers:

    A couple of questions regarding Ford 16”x4” 5 on 5.5” steel rims from the early ’40s:

    What is the size of the hub opening (center bore)?
    What is the rim offset?

    I'm hoping these specs are fairly consistent and that I’m not opening a can of worms.

    Thanks!
     
  2. With a 4" rim there won't be much of an offset.
     
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  3. And the centre hole is the same as all 5 on 5 1/2 bolt centre wheels on cars up to 48 and 1/2 ton Ford pickups to about mid 60's.
    "I think."
     
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  4. RobG
    Joined: Feb 5, 2021
    Posts: 21

    RobG
    Member
    from WA

    Thanks guys.

    I've spent a lot of time searching and while I’ve learned a lot I haven’t found a definitive answer to the center bore size. I found an aftermarket ‘40 Ford hub that has a center bore of 3.25” and a set of aftermarket rims I bought had a center bore of 3.75”. So I’m inclined to think that 3.25” is correct. I need 4” so I don’t think ‘40 rims will work for me. Oh well ...
     

  5. Smaller than a Jeep !!! That might be your answer but not sure if I have a stock one around. What axel/hub are you working with - pictures help !
     
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  6. 19Fordy
    Joined: May 17, 2003
    Posts: 8,027

    19Fordy
    Member

    Rob, the folks on Fordbarn will know the answers.
     
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  7. RobG
    Joined: Feb 5, 2021
    Posts: 21

    RobG
    Member
    from WA

    They are rims from a ‘51 Indian 3-wheeler (see motorcycle discussion group). They were probably catalog/off-the-shelf at the time. The axles/hubs were custom machined to match. I tried rims from Summit Racing - Deuce 16x4.5 and 5 on 5/5.5 but the center bore was too small (3.75”). The original rims appear to be irreplaceable so I want to get rims to use for daily use. I did see that some older Jeep CJ rims were of similar size but was following thru on the Ford rims. Size matters because they need to fit under the cargo box.

    FC3F70F9-6C2B-4F31-B556-93865477B404.jpeg
     
  8. RobG
    Joined: Feb 5, 2021
    Posts: 21

    RobG
    Member
    from WA

    Thanks! I’ll check with Fordbarn.

    Rob
     
  9. 97
    Joined: May 18, 2005
    Posts: 1,982

    97
    Member

    If this is one of the six 51 Indian's built with sport scout engine, maybe it is the same from seat post back as the the 1952 500CC Warrior motor based patrol three wheeler , in which case , the differential is from a Crosley, rear brakes are from Studebaker Champion, so one would assume the wheels probably came from one or the other!
     
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  10. brading
    Joined: Sep 9, 2019
    Posts: 704

    brading
    Member

    If the centre hole in your 3.75" rims are just a plain hole as per picture post #7 is there any reason why the centre hole could not be bored to 4".
     
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  11. RobG
    Joined: Feb 5, 2021
    Posts: 21

    RobG
    Member
    from WA

    It is! I think the count is up to approx 10 Dispatch Tows and 10 Patrols discovered so far. I knew about the Crosley rear end but not about the wheels and brakes. I’ll ask one of the Patrol owners. There’s at least one of these DTs down in Australia (converted to 2 wheels). Are you into Indians as well?
     
  12. RobG
    Joined: Feb 5, 2021
    Posts: 21

    RobG
    Member
    from WA

    I thought about that. Then I tried to find a machinist. The custom wheel shops didn’t have the equipment nor could I find a machinist on Craigslist. So I thought it would be less expensive and easier to find wheels from the past. (I also thought about looking for a compact spare but couldn’t find a size cross reference).

    What would be the correct tool? Mill or large lathe or ...

    Thx!
     
  13. brading
    Joined: Sep 9, 2019
    Posts: 704

    brading
    Member

    I would try the local engineering and rod shops in your area. If they could not do it there is a good chance they would know someone that could.
     
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  14. Marty Strode
    Joined: Apr 28, 2011
    Posts: 8,799

    Marty Strode
    Member

    One that will swing 18", like this. IMG_2958.JPG
     
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  15. 97
    Joined: May 18, 2005
    Posts: 1,982

    97
    Member

    Yeah , I have a few Indians , (had a lot more) , but no three wheelers. My information came from a discussion during a visit with Bob Stark, but that was over 20 years ago. 1994 if memory serves me. I made assumptions on the wheels but I am incorrect , Studebaker uses 5 on 4.5 and Crossley has 4 studs according to today's research.
    Here is a list of vehicles which use 5 on 5.5.... probably all too wide, BUT if you look around you might find some of them have narrow space saver rims with the correct stud pattern. Early Jeeps had 5 on 5.5 with a big center hole so the Jeep, Lada and jappa Jeep copies might be promising .
    https://www.wheel-size.com/pcd/5x139.7

    If you have the original rims , what makes you think they will fail in daily use?
     
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  16. phoneman
    Joined: Dec 5, 2010
    Posts: 109

    phoneman
    Member
    from Missouri

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  17. RobG
    Joined: Feb 5, 2021
    Posts: 21

    RobG
    Member
    from WA

    I just heard back from the guy that owns a couple of Patrols. They do use Studebaker brakes but use Crosley 12” wheels. They are very cool bikes - shaft drive with reverse. But my wife tells me that I have enough toys.

    I am almost OCD about having or identifying a source of spares for all of the hard to find parts. And I’m retired so I have time to be OCD.

    I met a few Australians at Davenport when I’d go there with my father (1995-2014). Jim Parker would often be there. Very nice folks. Seems like they have bikes mostly of WW I and WW II eras. Don’t remember meeting New Zealanders but it’s been a long time and my father was the social one. Are you still able to get over here for the shows? Before the pandemic?

    Thanks for the rim information. It’ll give me something to keep me out of trouble.

    Do you have pics of your treasures?

    Rob
     
  18. RobG
    Joined: Feb 5, 2021
    Posts: 21

    RobG
    Member
    from WA

    Very cool! I have an old small Atlas but it wouldn’t do the job. In the old days, pre virus, I’d just drive around visiting shops but that’s not as easy now.

    Thanks for the pic.
    Rob
     
  19. RobG
    Joined: Feb 5, 2021
    Posts: 21

    RobG
    Member
    from WA

  20. enjenjo
    Joined: Mar 2, 2001
    Posts: 2,689

    enjenjo
    Member
    from swanton oh

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  21. Beanscoot
    Joined: May 14, 2008
    Posts: 3,055

    Beanscoot
    Member

    Steel wheels typically have a little raised lip on the metal at the center hole, so if they are bored out this will be removed.

    If you do bore them, it is probably more important to be concentric to the bolt pattern that to the OD.
     
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  22. brading
    Joined: Sep 9, 2019
    Posts: 704

    brading
    Member

    Rather than driving around contact companies on the phone and send a copy of the picture so they understand what you want done.
     
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  23. Lots of farm implements use wheels with 5x5.5 bolt pattern. I have only seen them in 14, 15, 16 inch sizes. I also have some I believe are studebaker, they might be artillery wheels, jeep has already been mentioned.
     
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  24. Moriarity
    Joined: Apr 11, 2001
    Posts: 30,778

    Moriarity
    SUPER MODERATOR
    Staff Member

    can it be larger than 4 inch? my boat trailer has wheel vintiques chrome OE wheels 15x5 and the center hole is 4.250. they probably make them that way to please the 4x4 jeep guys. I have a 40 ford wheel and measured it at about 3.5 inches.

    here is a link to summits offering of 15x5 wheel vintiques chrome wheels. (I think they make em painted too )

    https://www.summitracing.com/parts/wvi-64-555503 wheel1.JPG wheel2.jpg wheel3.JPG
     
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  25. wheeltramp brian
    Joined: Jun 11, 2010
    Posts: 2,556

    wheeltramp brian
    Member

    I've got a pair of those wheels on the back of the 33 as rollers 20210208_170529.jpg
     
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  26. RobG
    Joined: Feb 5, 2021
    Posts: 21

    RobG
    Member
    from WA

    Those really look like my rims! Do you know the center hole size? Do you know where they came from?
     
  27. wheeltramp brian
    Joined: Jun 11, 2010
    Posts: 2,556

    wheeltramp brian
    Member

    They were on an old trailer.i got em about 15 years ago.the center hole is 4" or a hare bigger
     
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  28. RobG
    Joined: Feb 5, 2021
    Posts: 21

    RobG
    Member
    from WA

    That’s amazing. Confirming that they are 16”x4” 5 on 5.5”, please let me know if you decide to sell them.
     
  29. wheeltramp brian
    Joined: Jun 11, 2010
    Posts: 2,556

    wheeltramp brian
    Member

    I'd let em go. definitely 5x5.5. ill measure the width for sure tomorrow but pretty sure they are 4" wide.
     
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  30. 31 Coupe
    Joined: Feb 25, 2008
    Posts: 383

    31 Coupe
    Member

    Early 4WD Suzuki wheels have a 5x5-1/2" bolt circle and a largish centre bore.
    WW2 Jeep wheels must be close too.
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2021
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