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Technical Pull head on SBC without removing intake manifold?

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by Greasyman, Jan 31, 2021.

  1. Greasyman
    Joined: Oct 23, 2010
    Posts: 174

    Greasyman
    Member

    I've never taken the head off of a V8. I was hoping I could pull the driver's side head without removing the intake manifold. (I think the gasket is blown) It's a 1959 283 with Power Pack heads. The engine is in a T bucket so I don't need to worry about fender clearance.

    I tried pulling it today and it would just rock a bit when I stuck a prybar in one of the exhaust ports. Then it occurred to me that if the pistons are sticking up into the combustion chambers at all I probably won't be able to get it out, since I need to slide it parallel to the deck.

    Anyway, is it possible to do this, has anyone done it? No biggie if I have to pull the manifold, but I'd rather not if I don't need to. Thanks.
     
  2. greybeard360
    Joined: Feb 28, 2008
    Posts: 2,074

    greybeard360
    Member

    Don't chance it. You have to replace the intake gasket anyway and trying to reseal it without pulling it is near impossible. But yes, it can be done.
     
  3. IF there are any locating dowels on the block surface you have to get up over them.
     

  4. dirrty
    Joined: Dec 10, 2011
    Posts: 30

    dirrty
    Member

    Don't forget about the dowel pins, it won't just slide out. Read a good manual a learn to do it right, one time. Redo's are a pain. Have fun. You will really be PO'd when the other side is ready to blow next.
     
    Elcohaulic likes this.
  5. lake_harley
    Joined: Jun 4, 2017
    Posts: 2,159

    lake_harley
    Member

    I'll agree that it would be difficult if not nearly impossible to do. The head is located on dowel pins in the deck of the block, so it would have to lift up and out. If you got the head off of the engine that way it would be likely you'd damage gaskets or even the head in the process of trying to get it back together. Similar to what greybeard360 said, getting the intake sealed again would be pure luck.

    BTW...if you need heads I have a pair of power-pack heads with casting number ending with 520.

    Lynn

    *Edit - I guess I type too slow. Two others beat me to it about the dowel pins
    .
     
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  6. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 55,933

    squirrel
    Member

    you can probably pull the head without pulling the intake, but you'll never get the intake to seal again unless you remove it and change the gaskets
     
  7. DDDenny
    Joined: Feb 6, 2015
    Posts: 19,133

    DDDenny
    Member
    from oregon

    And you're wanting to pass up an opportunity to never have to say that again!
     
  8. 2OLD2FAST
    Joined: Feb 3, 2010
    Posts: 5,215

    2OLD2FAST
    Member
    from illinois

    Used to do it in the dealership shop to beat flat rate patience , some wood wedges no sweat. Would I do it on my own.? Oh hell no ! Much easier to do it correctly & be assured of the outcome. With an open engine compartment especially , why bother ??
     
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  9. The amount of screwing around your going to
    do for about 1 hour work ( most of that is just getting the distributor in correctly and cleaning old gaskets .
    You’d be done by now.
    I’m all for taking short cuts n being lazy ,but now is not one of those times .
     
  10. Greasyman
    Joined: Oct 23, 2010
    Posts: 174

    Greasyman
    Member

    Thanks everyone, I didn't know about the dowels. That makes it seem pretty difficult.
     
  11. Johnny Gee
    Joined: Dec 3, 2009
    Posts: 12,600

    Johnny Gee
    Member
    from Downey, Ca

    Seen head pulled at the bone yard with intake still on the other head still attached to the engine.
     
    Tman likes this.
  12. 56sedandelivery
    Joined: Nov 21, 2006
    Posts: 6,695

    56sedandelivery
    Member Emeritus

    Knew a paramedic once who had bought a really nice, mid 60's Chevrolet P/U truck with an even nicer 327 in it (cammed up and sounded good). He'd drive it to the hospital, where we both worked, and it was a nice truck. Had double hump heads, an aluminum intake/Holley carb, and headers. He came to the conclusion he'd blown a drivers side head gasket (I forget why that was), and decided to do just what the OP proposes here. Well, he ultimately snapped off a corner intake bolt flange at the drivers side rear, and then kept prying up on the head until he snapped off a corner of the head that he'd he'd also missed a lower, rearmost bolt on. The heads had considerable work done to them, and he wanted to know if I had a head to sell. Only thing I had was a set of Power Pack heads that were in good shape, and I just gave them to him. Told him to remove both heads now, and see if a welder local to him could weld the intake back together (that came out OK apparently). Moral of story: NEVER try to skip on the important stuff, always read the manual, and formulate a plan before you start. This guy did't live close by, so I could't really help him, and it took him a few weeks to get it together and running again. Then he wanted me to take the old heads (???); he actually wanted me to buy them, but I told him to just drop them off at a machine shop. Here's a smart guy, he's a PARAMEDIC, and saves lives every day, but apparently has little mechanical aptitude. And I was just a dumb X-Ray Tech (NOT!!!); I used to say that to the Drs. and Nurses, while operating several million dollars in Radiology equipment. To the OP; did you do any diagnostics to arrive at, "it's a blown head gasket"? SBC's are known for leaking intake manifold water passage gaskets at the corners. It could be a head gasket, but did you do a compression test? Water in oil or cylinder (s), or cooling system getting pressurized, or have signs of oil in the coolant, or water vapor going out the exhaust? What was the engine doing/not doing? And like has already been noted, Chevy's have locating pins AND small "rings" to align the heads to the block, so you can't just remove a head without removing the intake manifold/distributor. First, the distributor needs to come out, then the intake manifold, unbolt the exhaust, back off on the rocker arms, and remove the pushrods, pull the spark plugs, and keep everything in order,and labeled if you have to. Course there are other small parts and steps to take. Good luck. Report back with your results. I am Butch/56sedandelivery.
     
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  13. scrappybunch
    Joined: Nov 16, 2011
    Posts: 412

    scrappybunch
    Member
    from nj

    At the dealer it was real common to do it, we had a clock to beat. Hardest part was scraping the intake gasket. Those tuned port intakes sucked to remove.
    On my own vehicle, no way.
     
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  14. Mr48chev
    Joined: Dec 28, 2007
    Posts: 33,861

    Mr48chev
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I don't really see the reasoning for leaving the intake on on a T bucket. You have to buy a full intake gasket anyhow as they don't just sell one side.
    It takes less than a minute to take the distributor out, Less than five minutes to finish taking the intake off.
    While you are fighting with it and risking breaking the intake you can have it apart and the head off and checked out. Don't forget to take the row of bolts off below the exhaust ports. I have seen one of those heads that were broken at the bolt line because someone used a huge pry bar to take the head off without unbolting the exhaust.

    Don't give us the nonsense that you won't be able to get the distributor back in time either. I or one of the others can walk you though that step by step if the need arises.
     
  15. Hnstray
    Joined: Aug 23, 2009
    Posts: 12,355

    Hnstray
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Quincy, IL

    @Greasyman

    an old adage....”if you don’t have time to do it right the first time, when are you going to have time to do it over”

    Ray
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2021
    RICH B, belair, Jalopy Joker and 7 others like this.
  16. Mike VV
    Joined: Sep 28, 2010
    Posts: 3,029

    Mike VV
    Member
    from SoCal

    You can...BUT you have to prepare for it when installing the intake manifold in the first place. It's a long story, but I got to where I could replace a small Chevy head gasket, by myself, in just over 15 minutes.
    But as I said, prior preparation IS required.

    In general, NO it's just not worth the chance if not getting the head on correctly and having to fight it and having the intake gasket not seal.

    Just do it right, remove the intake manifold.

    Mike
     
  17. Greasyman
    Joined: Oct 23, 2010
    Posts: 174

    Greasyman
    Member

    Thanks for the long and entertaining response. The car was idling at a stoplight when it started to sound like it was missing. As I drove it, it began to sound even worse, wouldn't idle and ran like crap at higher speed.
    Couldn't find any vacuum or electrical or fuel issues, timing was ok so no timing chain issues, so I did a compression test. Passenger bank was all 150, driver's side was 120 and it would slowly drop to about 80. Didn't find any evidence of water in oil. By that point I figured since the car is so easy to work on I'd just take a look at the gasket, though I can't imagine what else it might be.
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2021
  18. 56sedandelivery
    Joined: Nov 21, 2006
    Posts: 6,695

    56sedandelivery
    Member Emeritus

    The 454 in my DD truck did something very similar a few months back. I ran the valves (hydraulics), and it ran better for just a second (???). I decided I had a cam going flat, and just said forget it for a while. I even "magnetized" the dip-stick, to see if it would pick up any metallic particles if it was the cam going flat; no metal (???). A couple days before my last spinal surgery (1-5-2021), I pulled the drivers side valve cover again to try adjusting the valves again; number 7 intake valve was the problem, specifically, a stripped rocker arm adjustment nut. I really don't know how I missed it the first time, other than I was pretty bummed out about it all. New nut from my stash, adjusted it, and it seems to be running fine again. I had even bought a new cam for it; had the gasket set, lifters, etc on hand already, and now I don't have to use them! You might want to even try re-torquing the head bolts, but drain the block first. A pint of sodium salicylate (AKA water-glass, egg keep), the main ingredient in most stop leak or block sealants, to see if that does the trick after re-torquing the head bolts. Ain't this hobby of ours fun? I am Butch/56sedandelivery.
     
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  19. BLACKNRED
    Joined: May 8, 2010
    Posts: 366

    BLACKNRED
    Member

    Do it, just make sure you take both heads off, if one head gaskets gone, it is likely the other won't be far behind.

    !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
  20. Tow Truck Tom
    Joined: Jul 3, 2018
    Posts: 1,879

    Tow Truck Tom
    Member
    from Clayton DE

    Lining up the distributor can go wrong without paying attention. I had to learn the hard way, when I was in high school. A good friend had let me have his quad manifold when he wrecked his '55.
    I remembered to mark both the rotor position and the distributor housing before yanking out the distributor. ( My preference is to mark the houstng to the motor and the rotor to both the housing and a point on the firewall that matches up to the rotor either pointing at or away. Probably wisest to set the motor to TDC #1 using the compression stroke and crank timing mark ) Upon reinstalling it I was ignorant of the oil pump drive. About two days after, the morning-start up was was announced with a dread rattle from the crank and rods. Immediate shutdown saved the motor.
    My mentors told me I had a busted oil pump drive rod. The solution became apparent when I studied the drive gear that engages with the camshaft.
    In order to phase the pump drive with the rotor setting, one needs to take notice of the dist. drive gear's bevel. Since the cam gear catches first, then the pump rod is engaged. I found it best to note the rotational distance of a tooth from bottom to top.
    Now here's where we make it all good. With the dist. in your hand and the rotor where it should be pointing, flipping the dist bottom up you can see that the pump drive rod slot is in position. Armed with a flashlight and a long thin screwdriver I turn the pump drive CCW about 2/3 to 3/4 the distance of the gears bevel rotational difference. This will allow the drive gear teeth to engage, and the pump shaft to engage as the dist housing is lowered to the manifold.

    I have successfully used this method many times since.
     
  21. Greasyman
    Joined: Oct 23, 2010
    Posts: 174

    Greasyman
    Member

    Thanks 56sedan for the advice, I'll keep it in mind, but I'm already to the point where I was ready to pull off the head, all the bolts out, rockers loosened, exhaust manifold off, etc. I may as well just pull off the intake manifold and see what's what.
    Thanks to everyone for their advice.
     
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  22. sunbeam
    Joined: Oct 22, 2010
    Posts: 6,213

    sunbeam
    Member

    This fits the old adage " not enough time to do it right but enough to do it over"
     
  23. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 55,933

    squirrel
    Member

    were all the cylinders on the driver side low? Or just one?
     
    Wrench97 likes this.
  24. Gearhead Graphics
    Joined: Oct 4, 2008
    Posts: 3,890

    Gearhead Graphics
    Member
    from Denver Co

    Do it all the way, do them both, or why bother. Its a bucket, its the easiest way to do it
     
    GlassThamesDoug likes this.
  25. alanp561
    Joined: Oct 1, 2017
    Posts: 4,609

    alanp561
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I've seen 1959 Motors Manuals on eBay recently from $4 to $28. It would be a real handy thing to have
     
  26. The head has to come up to come off. it is sitting on a pair of dowel pins. Do not force it or try too that will be an expensive lesson.
     
    LOU WELLS likes this.
  27. Matt55folife
    Joined: Nov 28, 2020
    Posts: 127

    Matt55folife

    Theres only a distributer bolt and 6 other intake bolts in the way of taking it all the way off. Just do it the right way and dont take chances of breaking the intake or pinching your new head gasket trying to get it on. The worse part of taking off the heads is getting antifreeeze everywere and you have already done that! Get u a copy of the torque specs to put her back together. Good luck!


    Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
    LOU WELLS likes this.
  28. Yes you can.:D Anything is possible with a 12 Lb. sledgehammer.:oops: Wear proper PPE like goggles, gloves, and shin guards if it is out laying on the floor.:p A better way is about 2 Lbs. of C4 but you will have some difficulty acquiring that.:eek: Prepare to get greasy and dirty if you want to do it non-destructively and proper.;)
     
  29. There is a reason why head gaskets come in pairs. Don't forget the torque wrench and proper torque "sequence"!
     
    GlassThamesDoug likes this.

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