Projects 1947 Frazer Manhattan

I recently bought a 1947 Frazer Manhattan. It was parked in a barn from 1971 until 2018 two town over from me in northern Ca. Does anyone have any interest in Frazers or Kaisers on this site?
its in great shape and all original! it has surface rust, the trunk lid even has some pitting by the Darrin emblem. Does anyone have any interest in this car or Frazers in general?

 

Kaisers and Frazers have a loyal following. Yours would be one of the earliest models and the Frazer Manhattan was more expensive and better equipped than the Kaiser. It was Kaiser Frazer's top model. Introduced in March 1947 and only made for a few months before the 48s came out.
Earliest models had "Graham" on the name plate because Henry Kaiser bought what was left of the old Graham company. I think that name plate was used for the first year.
They were low and sleek for the times and looked more modern than the recycled prewar models the mainstream car companies were turning out. The flathead six was a Continental design made under license, an excellent motor long lived and economical but on the small side for such a luxury car. Many parts like engine, transmission, rear axle, brakes were bought off the shelf from specialist suppliers.
If it is in good original condition you should keep it that way, not many of them are left. There are collectors who love them but they were never good hot rod or custom material.

 

I learned to drive in a 48 Frazer three on the tree and over drive. Took my drivers license road test in it back in 1954. Was a great old car. Get it running and drive it. It's a classic..

 

Check out this 49 Kaiser daily driver cold start video from Alberta Canada. Looks like the sister to your car. Kaisers and poodles are game for anything.

 

Awesome! Thanks for the history, I have been researching as much as I can online about them. Seem pretty rare and parts are hard to find. I plan on keeping it completely original.

 

Yeah! the OD threw me off at first. Cable operated overdrive, pretty advanced for the day!

 

Henry Kaiser made a buttload of money and built a large industrial empire supplying Liberty ships to the war effort. His market disappeared overnight with the war's end so he threw his hat into the ring of automakers. He had brief initial success as most of the rest of Detroit was serving up face-lifted pre-war models but once they got retooled and introduced new models in '49, sales fell quickly. He had underestimated the amount of capital needed for a viable company just like Preston Tucker did, but didn't have any really 'new' features to offer unlike Tucker. The real blow was government limits on industrial expansion put in place during the Korean war which prevented further drivetrain improvements, by the time those were lifted it was too late to save the brand. Basically pre-war mechanicals wrapped in a new body didn't sell well.

They don't bring big money, so if you stick to a budget build you should be OK, unless of course you fall in love with it...

 

Wow, never thought I'd see a Frazer on this site, not ever !
My first car was a '47 Kaiser and ugly as a turd. I've related here trading
one of my trumpets for it, ( the neighbor guy wanted his kid to learn how
to play ) I was just 16, drove it to high school. Parked it as out-a-sight
as I could. Was a fun car in the snow with bald tires and all. Swear the body
was made from 3/16" sheet steel or maybe even 1/4".

 

Kaiser and Frazer were state of the art for 1947. Low chassis, wide streamlined body, 2 years ahead of the mainstream car companies. Kaiser was supposed to be front wheel drive but they couldn't get the front drive mechanism to work. So they went with a conventional layout but one that was state of the art for the time. They also pioneered high style interiors with embossed vinyl when other cars had drab gray, blue or brown broadcloth.
They were quite successful for a time, selling 300,000 cars by summer of 1948. But by the mid fifties competition was brutal and they ended up sending the tooling to south America where they made the Carabella model until 1962.
Henry Kaiser remarked "when I got into the automobile business I expected to throw $25 million into the pot. I didn't expect it to disappear without a trace". The company was undercapitalized, they had to make do with just a 4 door sedan body for the first 4 years, no 2 door, coupe, convertible or station wagon models. They did make a 4 door Frazer convertible and a hatchback Traveller, based on the sedan body. They also had a modern OHV V8 engine in the works but never got it into production. Instead they had a McCulloch supercharged six as a stop gap. When KF folded in the US, the engineers who designed the V8 found employment at American Motors and the AMC 250 - 287 - 327 V8 was the result. That was the engine KF was supposed to have but never did get.

 

My Dad came home from the war in the Pacific and bought either a 47 or 48 Frazer Manhattan. He bought it from an acquaintance who had the dealership, and was in line to get a Tucker dealership (or so the story goes). Disappointed in the performance he bought a Cadillac engine and transmission (hydramatic), new from government surplus.

He and his buddy George (who was a shipyard welder) stuffed it in the Frazer using mostly just a torch. "Made a car out of it". I heard that story many times as a boy. Later Dad replaced it with a Kaiser Manhattan which he taught Mom to drive in. That one I just barely remember. He sold it and bought a used Lincoln Capri in 1955. He was who started me on the cars.

I look at any of those and think what a great project it would be, at least for me.

 

Haha Oh man, The awesome stories our dads tell! Reminds me of my dad!

 

@BJ Micheli .....Glad you posted about your Kaiser. Now, I can come out of the closet.....a year or two ago there was a big sale in Ohio with scads of Studebakers, Hudson, and other less common makes, including a Frazer that I really was interested in.

Unfortunately(?) I had too many cars already so I put a self imposed upper limit on what I would bid on the car, but kinda, sorta, thought I might get it for my figure. Alas, it brought more than my limit.......but here a a few pics of what I missed......



Ray

 

You just don't see that many of them these days, an orphan car. I loved the look of the 1952 Kaiser Virginian Traveler with an opening rear window and tailgate. Something to consider, a phantom 47 traveller?

 

I saw this one down at the Portland swap meet several years ago.

This brown one was photographed out at the PIONEER Auto Museum at Murdo South Dakota, several years back.

 

I have a finned "Kaiser Supersonic" head on my office wall from a local junkyard, was the last car out of the yard when it got emptied.

I always thought a cut down first gen Frazer would make a great basis for a Muntz Jet style sports car, the shapes are so similar. There was a guy named Nix on here that was making a custom 2 door Kaiser but I haven't seen his thread updated in a long time.

 

All I can say is that if your intent is to resell it don't change it. Most of the guys who are into that out of the main stream stuff want all original. Cleaned up and out and presented well helps though. Barn find dirt is way over rated.

 

Hey, Ruasty;
Thanks for the comments. Always liked the Traveler, never found one usable, much less affordable. Any more info on the4dr convert? & the still-borne front wheel drive system? IIRC, the Al hemi headed OHC fit on a continental 6, was used in the Jeep line. As w/his other car ventures, that, n some jeep models went to Argentina + the rest of South America, doing very well for him in Argentina. I think some very light chopping n reworking of the C panel, + some mild customizing would really set one of those things off.
Marcus...

 

I learned to drive in one.

 

You can make a convertible out of it.

 

They made a few hundred Frazer Manhattan 4 door hardtops and convertibles in 1951 only. Every one a custom job hand made from a sedan body. They sold for over $3000 which was Buick Roadmaster or Chrysler New Yorker territory. They say it cost them $5000 to build each $3000 car, they made them for prestige and to draw showroom traffic. It couldn't have worked because that was the last year for Frazers.
I am impressed that you know about the OHC six which was indeed based on the old Continental flathead six. It was the work of an Italian engineer named Lampredi who had previously worked for Fiat and Alfa Romeo. Wouldn't it be fun to put one in a Frazer?
Speaking of customizing, the body design was by an old time custom car designer Dutch Darrin who was responsible for the Darrin Packards among others. He wasn't happy with what they did to his design, they raised the roof after the drawings left his hands. The engineer responsible said he had no choice, Darrin did not allow for enough head room over the back seat and it was impossible to lower the seat because the very low chassis had a high kickup over the rear axle. If you look at a profile view you can see it has a hump backed look that is not present in the prototype clay models, with the high point of the roof over the back seat. Once you see it you can't unsee it, I would like to see what one looks like if they flattened out the roof and tapered it toward the back. You wouldn't exactly chop the top, all the mods would be above the drip rail.
The big drawback of the front drive system was hard steering. This could have been solved by power steering but that was not on the market yet. I believe they did consider some kind of power steering but it would have made the whole car too complicated and expensive and who knew if the public would buy it. It was easier and better to use a conventional chassis. According to road test reports the chassis was a good one, with a low center of gravity good handling and smooth ride for the times. Body design was by Howard 'Dutch' Darrin, major components from Continental, Warner Gear, Spicer, etc etc. The car was a success from the start sold well and proved reliable with no major flaws. But somehow the public turned against the independents and they all lost sales after 1950 and were finished off by the recession in 1957 and 58. AMC survived by dropping Nash and Hudson and making only the Rambler while Studebaker Packard dropped everything but the Lark. Those 2 compacts were the last remnants of the independent car makers.

 

...years ago in Street Rodder magazine (I think), someone turned a tudor into an el camino -like project,..looked very nice.

 

I have one- mine’s a hatchback

 

I'm actually picking up a 1948 Frazer tomorrow! I've always had a soft spot for these cars. My plan actually is to make a custom out of it... I've never seen a chopped one, so that's the plan! Found this one in Stockton.

 

A short story about a '47 Frazer.
A "little ol' lady" in our town had one. (an aside......her first name was the same as her mother's. not so unusual for the times, but you hardly ever hear of that now)
A couple of us teens snuck up to her garage one time to get a closer look at it (damn kids......always snoopin around).
When I opened the driver's door I saw the door release buttons. Wow, what an unusual feature!

She had had it worked on; new rings, bearings, ground valves, etc, but the fuel pump went out shortly after, and she got a newer Chevy rather than put more money into the Frazer.

Years later, I had been at an old car auction with my Dad on a Sunday (the bug was planted!...again!)
Figured, what the heck Dad, let's stop at Bertha's (now, this Bertha is not the type that comes to mind; she was very thin and wispy, but sharp as a tack)
Asked her if it was for sale, and she said yes. How much? $450 .....that is what she had spent on it for the repairs.
OK, paid the lady. Drug it to my Dad's place in town. And there it sat for quite a few years.
Even pulled the plugs and drenched the cylinders with oil.
Decided to take it out to the farm where it wouldn't be such an eyesore, as my Mom never said anything, but I just knew what she was thinking.
While my cousin towed me with his pickup, I tried popping the clutch to get the engine to turn..... no such luck. No brakes at all; so it was an "event" turning corners.
So, there it sat for another 20 years or so.
Farm got sold and the new owner wanted it gone. Had a 20' tilt-bed trailer with a 12v winch and went up to get it and take to the cousin's farm. Rear brakes were locked up and one rear tire was flat.
Damn winch gave out in the first couple of feet. (Yeah, I know...cheap import stuff)
I had to hand winch that sucker onto the tilt-bed trailer using a come-along.
My arms about fell off. Hot summer day.... no water.

Got it over to cousin's farm; and there it sat for a couple years.



The body was in fairly good condition; no rust out. Bumpers needed a little truing up.

Interior needed replacement, but the dash was a nice design and would have cleaned up well.



Maybe I should've kept it, but it just didn't generate the interest it once had.
In time a guy from another town was combing the area and buying up "junkers"
He said if I had a title; $400, if not; $250. Fortunately I had the title and it was already transferred into my name. So for a number of years, I had some not-so-expensive entertainment.

 

I still work on it, I updated post

 

My dad just passed, he had this ‘48 Frazer and a couple more rough ones, there is one I helped him drag out of a barn decades ago that’s some kind of wagon looking thing called a Vagabond I think. Seems like the spare tire mounted inside on one side And it only had a door on one side in the back or something goofy like that.

 

This thing just followed me home. I’m planning a late 40’s custom look with it.

 

I have a 47 also.It's pretty much a rolling shell.I'm slowly getting it together.Not really concerned with keeping it original.I have fitted a 250 chevy I6 into it with a 700r4 trans.I recently got a wiring harness kit to rewire it and upgrade to a 12 volt system.It's going to be a driver.

 

My buddies... I'll try to get some more photos.
He has porta walls on the tires. You can hear him coming... they squeak

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