I'm ready to start doing the body work and get the paint done on my t coupe. Thinking about having my friends brother do it so we went out to look at it last night. It pretty much looks like this still: What he's gonna do is take it from here- chop it, patch the doors, build the floor and firewall, do all the bodywork and paint it (chasis, engine, and body). We were talking gloss black (not set on that yet) and he says it will be absolutely perfect. I know he is good at what he does and has won quite a few awards. He also said he'd throw on whatever details/graphics I wanted (skulls, flames, pinup girls, scallops), possibly using an airbrush depending on what we do. With me helping out once in a while he said he'd do it for $8000. This was a bit of a shock for me as it's about what we have total into the car to this point. My questions are: Is this what good body work + paint costs and should I just bite the bullet and beg/ borrow money to do it? He even said I could pay as we go, don't need to do a down payment of half like he usually requires. Or should I explore other options: ask around for other people to do it, maybe see if he'll do a flat color and skip some bodywork for now?? The other, more fun question is what would you do as far as paint goes if it was all included. He pretty much said he would do anything to it for the same cost- just add in the diffence for material cost if I want to use more expensive colors, etc. I've already got black wall bias ply tires and the wheels painted shiny black (not on yet obviously) but the color could be changed easy enough I think. Thanks for any guidance you can give me on this- I've never really done anything of this scale before.
If you are gonna keep the car, Eight grand aint all that bad if he's really good at what he does... Set a schedule, and have him sign it.. For every week he's late 500.00 comes off the 8000.00 price.. These "buddy" deals are most often a can of worms.
For what you are planning that doesn't sound too bad for a price. But then again, take the time and do it yourself and save the dough for the next project if you can do it. Bill
Whats there looks good in the picture, but they usually do. I don't like bid prices for restoration, but that's between you and him. It depends on exactly what he's doing as far as assembly chassis, and all the related parts, but 8 grand is cheap for a quality restoration and paint for most any car.
8,000 isn't exactly a buddy price, its a shop price for that car, this could be your opportunity to learn how to do it, see how much he would charge you just to supervise during the tricky parts, like the chop... everything else is fairly simple and straight forward. But all and all, I wouldn't pay that much, judging by the pic and what you said its about a 5,000 g total job. figure, 1500 to 2000 for the chop, (depending on glass), 1000 to 1300 for the floor, firewall about 5 or 6 hundred, and about 1000 for all the body work and paint, its not a huge car. And I overshot those prices a little bit.
WOW! Your car looks clean from here. I would save the money unless you really want it done, you might try and get other bids. Those are small cars and I cannot see $8000. Hey, what is the seat frame from?
I own a body shop.I never set a price,my shop rate is 30$ per hour as long as it takes,plus matterials.8,000$ seemes high to me,but not by much.That is deffanetly not the buddy price.Like the others,I would do it myself.If I can do it,anyone can.All it takes is will powere,and follow the directions.JMO.....hope it helps.Oh yea......I like what Henrey Ford said,"you can have a Ford any color you want as long as its black" EVIL
Have you seen a sample of your buddy's work? If the work is top notch, that's a fair price. I tend to pay top dollar for my paint and bodywork, as this is what finishes the car off. If you would be happy with a less than perfect finish you may be able to get it done cheaper. Remember, "good work ain't cheap and cheap work ain't good." Doc.
Whats important is what you want and do. Spend some time with a paper and pen and draw up an outline of the project. Take inventory of your skills ,time, and budget. If your considering having someone do this for you , What's their written and itemized time estimated to complete the project in hours ? Materials for refinishing what you've described needing to be done will easily exceed $1200.00. You need a detailed definition of what you expect the finished car to be, for yourself and whoever may be hired.Can you tolerate a pinhole in the paint or not? Wheter doing this project with a friend's brother or paying a professional ,this outline is the most important step needed to make your project successful. A skill inventory will help you determine when you should pay someone . I have a big problem with the bid. The best arrangement for both parties is a dollar per hour worked agreement. There are to many unknowns in a ballpark bid with a project of this type. The proposed agreement will only leave someone dissappointed. When working with a part time business person be prepared for time delays. I'm unsure if your friend is working at this full or part time. Cost is a relative issue and needs to be determined by you. I believe that the $8k is way below market, but if he comes thru and your happy that's what counts . Dont forget to budget for the unexpected . Cost over runs happen in all types of work. I believe that this project can easily be in the mid teens at a professional shop. Some will say I 'm delusional about the costs but I've been there and done that. Larry
The seat frame is from a dodge caravan- The 2 seater from the middle aisle. Since this picture, the middle has been hacked out for the driveshaft and the backside trimmed a little to get it further back. Thanks for all the replies so far. It IS actually pretty solid but the parts you don't see are what needs some attention. The bottoms of the doors need patch panels(already have them), decklid needs some straightening (possibly going to louver it anyways), 4-5 bullet holes right behind where the drivers head would be, belt line in the back is a little rotten- fairly minor for an 80 year old car I think. I think I may try to get him to meet me in the middle somewhere. He wants to make it perfect and I'm fine with it being a little rough around the edges for a while. He was talking 3 coats of primer, a bunch of black and then lots of clear on top I think. Maybe leave some of the minor imperfections in the body then primer and a flat black. That would hopefully drop the price signifigantly- how much should that differ assuming glossy and perfect for $8000. For those from MN, I guess he painted the car that won best paint at the bad boyz show the other weekend in st cloud- I didn't go to the show so didn't see the car.....
Great reply, he figured 1500-1800 in supplies- giving them to me at his cost. Monday through Friday 8-5 he works in a shop doing this type of thing, a lot of collision work, etc. This would be a project for his spare time. Him and another guy have a shop set up just for this after hours thing and they do quite a bit of it. Would take about 3 months he said but he wants to start as soon as possible cuz winter is when he'll get more busy. He said his normal 9-5 shop would bid this out at over $12,000 for sure. Someone else on the HAMB said: Fast, Cheap and Good- you can pick two. I guess I'm just trying to figure out which two I'm getting if I decide to do this with him.
My thoughts - #1 - If your in shock at 8 large for "perfect", than do you really want "perfect" or is pretty good enough? Guys that want perfect expect to pay for it and it ain't cheap. Perfect is always time and material in my world. #2 - A "deal" or the "buddy discount" never works out for BOTH parties. Having done one such discount for a friend, I don't think I'd do it again. When your used to making --X-- for a days work, and all of a sudden your making less than --X--, as a favor, the temptation can be to shortcut something. Not saying that he would but having been in that position before, I'd be lying if I said that the thought didn't cross my mind. Part of why I wouldn't do it again is that I didn't shortcut anything and my pal got a hell of a deal instead of a good deal. #3 - How much of this work can you do? How much can you prep in order to lower the costs? Can you do this in steps or is he not interested in that? Most of the stuff we do is NOT done to the extent that we would like to do things but rather to work within the budget of the customer. If you come in and I can talk you INTO doing everything just exactly perfect and just the way I want you to, than my next thought is "can this guy afford this?" ie:will I get paid? My natural instinct is that those who may have trouble paying and paying on time will have to make a substantial downpayment. Covers my ass, if you know what I mean. He waived this for you. Why? Tells me that he really need this sidework for some reason. #4 - The one time I did the "buddy discount", I told him that he'd get his car back when it was done. Period. Took 8 months but he came over and helped every now and then or if I called him and asked him to help with something or make a decision on a certain item. Bottom line is that he saw the continued progress but was never given a specified time for completion. Want to pay regular rate? I'll give you a more definite finish date. Just my .02
"What he's gonna do is take it from here- chop it, patch the doors, build the floor and firewall, do all the bodywork and paint it (chasis, engine, and body). We were talking gloss black (not set on that yet) and he says it will be absolutely perfect." Man, if you're really in shock at that price, take it to another shop and have them bid on it for 'perfect'. It ain't cheap. Good luck getting the bid lower. Painter/bodymen are artists, and sometimes it's hard to get them to do something less than how they're accustomed to doing it. You're opening a potential can of worms doing this with a side-deal sort of thing. These always take longer/cost more than when they start out, especially for 'perfect'. Half down seems reasonable enough to me. My personal opinion, I'd say do it yourself. Sounds like money is an issue, and looking at your car, it needs interior/wheels/tires/misc in addition to paint and body, so you're looking at the better part of 20gs in that car before you're done, at least. Is that car worth 20 large to you, or is that more than you bargained for? What's your goal with the car? If you're looking to build a showcar quality vehicle, then spend the dough. It sounds like you can live with something less to me, and to that end I'd suggest doing it yourself. I think you'll be happier in the end, and won't be near as much in the poor house. Then again, I'm a cheap bastard
8K for good bodywork and paint on that thing is a good price. I'm surprised nobody mentioned for BLACK paint, its gotta be super straight or you'll notice all the waves... One thing I don't EVER plan on skimping out on is PAINT. You get what you pay for in my opinion.
Just remember you get what you pay for. A pro does pro work . A backyard artist may do the same- but can be few & far between. In our area it probably more expensive that where you are because we are near the city. Our shop is $60 per hour until the vehicle is done. I can usually give a great ballpark on the number of hours it talkes and the customer does the math and decides if they want it done. $8000 sounds OK- a bit on the low side for our area. Just make sure he isnt cutting corners on work so 5 years down the road you dont need rust repair on something done by him or paint repair becauss it peeled. Just remember that a customer can BCEOME a friend but a friend is a very difficult customer. Good luck
Sounds like a low bid to me as well. An "after hrs" price for sure. Our shop rate at work is $45/hr, at home I get $30. Chop it, floor it, build a firewall, all the incidental fab that accompanies that work, then smooth it to perfection and paint it black. Assuming $1500 in mat'ls leaves $6500 for labor. That's 217hrs to do all of that at $30/hr. I doubt I could do it in that time. 300+ hrs based on what little I see in the pic. I guess I'm not too surprised at some of the responses so far. The prevailing attitude toward paint and body work seems to always be a lack of respect for the talent and vision a good guy has. Or maybe it just doesn't seem that important to most to have it real slick and smooth. Anyways, that's my .02. I think you're gettin a good deal on it.
I'll NEVER do "Buddy Work" again! If this guy wants $8,000 for what was discribed he BETTER get it in WRITING what you expect it to be when finished. I can just about bet money how this job turns out, if it turns out "Perfect" it will still be nit picked and the cost bitched about until you off load the car at a profit based on the bodywork. No body guy I've known wants help from someone with no skills involved with jeopardizing any step between bare metal to finish buffing. If a body guy is expected to do "buddy priced work" how come it is NEVER a two way street?
The Jalopy Journal
