Has it always been a Texas car? I wouldn’t think it would get cold enough to freeze that hard there. If it was me I’d start by dropping the pan( they make a little tool that screws in the side of the block to hold the oil pump up) and then filling the radiator and see if water comes out the block somewhere.
That sounds like as good a starting place as any. For this volume of water, I would think it would certainly have to be cracked, right? Then I suppose it depends on where the crack is at. If not repairable by brazing it would probably be best to skip the banger and just move on to the V8. I have no history on the chassis, but it does occasionally get cold enough for long enough to freeze an engine with just water in it. We had a decent freeze earlier this month that could have been enough to do it.
Could just be a bad head gasket. My roadster drained damn near half the whole cooling system into the cylinders and oil pan. Pulled it apart, checked for cracks, reassembled. Done.
Bad head gasket would deff flood the engine, I would try to pull the head and pan... Those banger motors if cracked will show very easily, but honestly they are so dang tough that I would think its just a head gasket myself.
This is awesome. I'm so happy for you to have found this coupe. Please let me know if you need any help.
The one banger that I worked on had a bad head gasket. It was a MF'er to get the head off it. I had to make hardwood wedges and I slowly drove them between the block and head all the way around, 3 cans of PB Blaster, raising the head up 1/64" at a time to begin with, and over the course of a couple of days of soaking and banging in wedges I finally got it off. The tip-off that it needed a head gasket was that you could see exhaust bubbling in the radiator while it was running. You might get lucky and it only be a head gasket. Let me know what your schedule is and I will come give you a hand doing the teardown.
I don’t have any days off for the forseeable future, but I work 8-5 every day, so any evening would work if you don’t mind coming out that late... I am going to drop the pan today and fill the radiator like modelacrazy suggested, go from there.
Do yourself a favor and go buy a can of PB Blaster and start soaking the studs on the head. And then soak them some more....and some more.....don't rinse, and repeat......
The studs make removing the head a real pain for sure. One nuts and washers are off I spray solvent down each one to loosed the build up of crud around the studs to soften it up. I also made a set of 4 Jacking bolts that have proven to help a ton. It takes 4 junk spark plugs and some all thread. Knock the center out of the plugs and weld a nut on the underside (inside the cyl) of the plugs. Make the end of the all thread that's going inside as Flat and Smooth as possible. Run all 4 down till they make contact on the Pistons. Now 1/4 turn at a time turn the all thread. Jamb nuts on the top end will help ya. Keep the pressure even and take your time, it'll let go and keep using the all thread till you clear the Studs. Much easier than trying to wedge between the block and head because you can't stay square to the studs that way. You should also be able to read the old gasket this way to know where or if you have a water leak.
Trevor we can use the plugs that came with the engine to make some of those Like PNB is describing. My 1 and only experience with a banger tells me it's worth the effort. I tried everything including sticking rope down in the cylinders as well as just loosening the nuts on the studs and turning the engine over. It was a task to get that head off.
Even under the best conditions it's always a task. Take your time getting it to let go. Once you can see movement then you can just crank it up and off. You want it to brake loose first. Also, braking a few studs isn't uncommon. That's a real Mutha when it happens but it's one less to mess with. Drilling out the end also can have it's problems. Just go easy id the best method.
I forgot to mention this part. If it feels like your twisting a Stud instead of the Nut letting go and just coming off, STOP! Get yourself a nut splitter and sacrifice the nut in lou of braking a stud off.
I have no idea what a full rebuild on a banger runs these days, but I'd guess that 3-4000 dollars isn't crazy. At that price, I'd be considering other options. 1. find a "good used" banger and swap it 2. back to Plan A and gather up the parts to build the AV8 Now if you can get away with dropping the pan and pulling the head (along with pulling the side cover, rebuilding the carb and a full tune up), you will be ahead, but check into pricing out everything needed to bring this one back to happy. If you can find another banger for the same or a couple hundred more that runs okay (hits on all 4, doesn't overheat, doesn't leak), you will be time and money ahead without the risk of the current engine having deeper problems. Look at rod shops that are converting good older restored cars into rods for clients. They may have the brake rods too. Moral of the advise, look at your options before you leap! Videos of head removal https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=model+A+head+removal&&FORM=VDVVXX
I’m gonna try to save this one but if it’s toast I’m going to move on to the V8. I went ahead and ordered a head gasket. If I end up not needing it I’m only out 30 bucks. I’d rather have it on hand than have to wait a week or two for it to get here after identifying the problem. Worst case, I hold on to it for a while and I can give it to a friend who needs it down the line. In that event I’m going to dump the ‘40 rear end and convert the A banjo to juice brakes. I understand a late 30s transmission will work between the V8 and the banjo, without needing to cut up the torque tube. Since I’m not planning on big power that should be fine. Then I’ll swap my juice converted A front axle on to this car and be halfway there. Thanks for all the tips on getting the head off. I’ll snag some PB at the store today and start soaking.
Does anyone that is watching have any input on the timing advance levers and the hand throttle levers on the steering columns? Without doing a lot of research I was wondering if they are rebuildable, as far as being able to get them moving freely and actually feeling the detents in them. The '29 Model A I worked on was in great shape, and you could actually count the "clicks" of the timing advance lever. Just wondering if that control can be rebuilt.
Good luck! There is a tech article at the top of the banger thread about building a plate to bolt to the head so you can hook it to an engine hoist, might be worth a look. Those engines are pretty darn tough, if they aren’t stuck they almost always will run with a little love. The banger thread has a treasure trove of info on these engines
I am with you on dropping the pan to see where the water is coming from. Be careful with the gasket. If the block looks good from the bottom side, I would go back to getting the motor running. You don't need water in it for that. If you want the head off, loosen the nuts on the studs, soak with penetrating oil, then start up the motor. Maybe you will get lucky and the head will lift up some.
Trevor, you have that little MAP gas torch. When you start to loosen the nuts, I would heat cycle the nuts on the head SEVERAL TIMES and alternate with PB Blaster or equivalent. That torch doesn't really have a way to concentrate the heat, but try to keep the heat towards the top and sides of the nuts. Work slowwwwwwwlyyyyyyyy when trying to break the nuts loose. Use an open end or box end wrench so you can see if the stud is turning. If the stud is turning, it is either twisting/unthreading out of the block, or is twisting/breaking off. Neither is what you want. That is where the nut splitter PNB mentioned is needed.
The problem with the steering column attached to the gas tank was that the tank would crack where the bracket was attached from the stress of people pulling on the wheel so they came with the one that you have that is separate from the tank. If you plan on using the tank for gas, probably not a bad idea to check your tank for leaks. Better now than later.
Pull the steering wheel, a little heat and pb blaster at the top of the column will expand those bushings a bit and let the pb clean, moving the arms back and forth, if no real resolve there, pull the nuts down low, pull the rods up a bit and polish the surface that rides in the bushing with Emory cloth, lube up real good with some MM oil and re assemble, make sure you oil or grease the lower area also. I have done this with pretty good results over the years.
The leak is likely due to either a cracked water jacket in the block, or a bad head gasket allowing water to get into the valve area from the water passages in the head. You would think that there would still be water in radiator, below the level of the angled outlet pipe. You can pull the valve inspection cover easily to check for water residue there. I think it's odd that there is no orange tint to the water (indicating rust). If that water was sitting in the oil pan for a while, you would think that it would have caused rust or scale there. You said the car was sitting in a field for a while. Any chance that the field flooded while the car was stored there?
I’m not really sure. There seems to be a lot of sediment inside the car, but at least where I picked it up there’s no way it could have been submerged anywhere. The water that came out of the pan was crystal clear and the water in the exhaust pipe was algae colored. I was wondering if the water didn’t enter the pan through the oil filler. The lack of rust in the water struck me too. E: I got in touch with the former owner and he says it spent some time outside, uncovered, during a long spell of heavy rainfall. The guy that checked it out for him left the spark plugs only hand tight. It must have entered that way. So probably not a bad head gasket or a cracked block but still possibly bad news. I should get oil back in this thing and circulating asap. With the water out of it now it will start rusting.
What do I do with this oil pan? I have removed all the bolts but you wouldn’t know it from the way it’s still stuck there. I have tried knocking the shit out of it with a mallet and prying. Not sure what to do now. Fun detail: it has an oversized, poorly cut leather gasket hanging out all over the place.
The oil on the crank looks milky. I see some of that milkiness in the cylinder bores, but the bores are nice and bright under it. The bores and rods would have flash rusted if the water was sitting in there for a while. I think the oil was pushed up in the bores when you ran it briefly - not introduced from the top down. I think you're ok to wipe it down, add fresh oil and water, and hope for the best... Worst case you're out 3-1/2 quarts of oil. You'll get a lot of white smoke in the exhaust with all that water in the exhaust..
Pan is cleaned out. Just need gaskets and a rope seal and I'll be ready to reinstall it. In the meantime going to wipe down everything I can reach from the bottom and hope oil circulation & oil changes take care of the rest. Hopefully it'll be OK for a few days until the gaskets get here and not start rusting now that it's exposed to the air. The old gasket was leather & was affixed to the pan with what could only have been rubber cement. What a shame this engine was allowed to flood like this. It's really nice in here!
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