Oem seatbelts in a hotrod?

I remember looking for belts im my local pick a part, and all I found were old dirty hard dry stuck belts, was like I want to use these nasty things, so I looked in the old evil bay bought a new set, new retractor the color I wanted, under 50 bucks. I also bought a of racing 4 point harness that were great, but trying to reach the radio and other things was a little restricive. and unpratical so went to the OEM style.

 

I am the best driver and dont need no stinkin seat belts......Bloody hell some idiot just pulled out in front of me and my kids, T boned him good and proper, now I am just a bloody pulp on the road for the medics to clean up.
Down here we need to pass stict certification rules as far as seat belts go before we can take our rod on the road. I am pondering at the moment how to put belts in a 54 hardtop, I want lap and daiagonals but think its going to look real ugly with a belt hanging down from the roof in a hard top.
Dont mess with your life over political era correctness.

 

Rear seat belts from a Volvo 240 sedan work great! retractors already have covers on them,short enough belts that in a small car they can retract all the way.

 

sports cars - miata, corvette, fiat, bmw etc.

 

There is a real thin line between "being cool" and a lack of good common sense sometimes. Don't believe me I'll show you some close ups of my wife's cheek and knee 32 years after she tumbled ass over teakettle out of the 48 when the door flew open on a turn going 10 mph. The big problem is that we (my kids and I) still have a time getting her to buckle up and she just got what was probably her 10th no seat belt ticket in the past 20 years last month.

Had three local people killed here Sunday night because they ran off the road and both the adults got pitched out of a late model suv and their nephew got thrown half way out. No seat belts buckled on the adults and the 8 year old had one that wasn't properly used.

My 26 year old is alive because he is hard core about seat belt use. Ran his 79 Elkie Straight off into a drain ditch and into the other bank and folded it up but he walked away from the crash. The frame was bent double on that truck at the firewall from the impact.

 

No way I'd use 17 year old seat belts that have been weathering away in a junk yard-or used belts of any kind. You just can't tell what wear,weather or trauma has happened to them. Seat belts are cheap enough. Just get new, DOT approved belts and be safe.

 

I never understood the mantality

Up -grade the power..(engine HP out put)
Up-grade the brakes to stop the HP out put

leave out the restraints for the occupants

Do what ever it takes to keep the passengers restrained in the case of an accident

 

First off, I don't work for them. I just ordered from here:

http://www.trubelt.com/products/details/id/2

I looked all over the internet. These look pretty decent (chromed parts) and were less expensive than some others. I hated buying sight unseen, but where are you going to see them in a store? These guys are somehow in business with Retrobelts, but if you buy from Retrobelts they are more expensive. The other thing about these is they have a lot of flexibility in mounting (check the Retrobelt site out for this info). I plan on mounting the rear seat retractors on the package tray. I will be sure to reinforce the mounting on the package tray. I was thinking of making a bracket under the package tray that would tie into the rear quarters. I've been driving around for five years without belts, time to make it right.

 

What do you guys think about lap-belts in the front and shoulder belts (for the kids) in the back of a four-door '53 Chevy that doesn't see much freeway use?

 

Well think about it like this. Your waist is designed so that you can touch your toes. That is exacty what is going to happen without a shoulder belt. The only thing that will stop you is the steering wheel or dash.

 

I thing its the Chrysler Sebring, or something like that, has seat belts that go down through the seat to the floor. Works great for conv. or car where you have no way to fasten the third mount. I have a 4dr. and had a 3/4 in. plate fit between the dr. post, drilled and tapped to hold the top mounting bolt. The retactor bolts to the floor.

 

I've thought about what to do for my 48 Chevy 2 dr. The split front bench in my 2002 Lesabre holds the entire seat belt system within it, and I was thinking of using the entire front bench, but the Lesabres are all 4 drs, so the seats don't tilt forward for rear seat access. I still have lots of time to figure it out.

I know it's paramount to have a safe restraint system, but according to much of the logic here, the vast majority of the cars I've owned have been unsafe with their original belts. I believe a good inspection of a used OE system can be safe and much cheaper than buying new stuff.
I have a 69 Buick Wildcat with factory 2 or 3 point belts (the 3rd point is optional,) and they are in really nice shape; I trust them just fine. On the flipside, there are many 90's cars in the junkyard that are faded, rigid, frayed, etc. and I would never use them.

 

My "A" roadster on '32 rails is almost finished. I have bought lap belts from The Hot Rod Co. (good people) because I can't see anywhere to affix the upper mount for 3 point that's strong enough and high enough!
An eventual goal is a single hoop roll bar with diagonal braces to the front that stop just aft of the door openings. When I do that I think I'll go to 4 point as I had them in dirt oval cars and know first hand how well they work in an accident!
Dave

 

UPDATE: I had a bad experience with these belts. You may read about it if you like.

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?p=5951162#post5951162

 

I got mine out of a 84 Lincoln continental front and rear and put them in my 53Chevy.works great,and the latch covers are plain ,no emblems on them.

 

What he said! Webbing rots after 10 years.

 

Good Morning Hotrod Hooligans,
Yes this is a 11 year old thread.
I have a few questions on seatbelts.
Without any "bone of contention", those of you who have seat belts installed (either 2 point, 3 point or full harness).
How many whether you have an ooen hotrod, custom car or vintage truck have had a crash?
Whether the crash was super minor or more catastrophic.
Im asking this question not to debate or speculate on collision impact on the human body that was either buckled up or not buckled up. No judgement either way on my part.
This topic has been on my mind, Im about to install belts, undecided in either lap belts or shoulder harness belts at this point.
I have been driving in my locale for years without belts.
Up here if car did not come with, then its not mandatory to use. If they are installed then they must be used by law here.
When I look at my steering wheel and dash in my 55 Fargo (prolly no different than F100 or 55 Chev). Belt or not this dash and steering column would hurt.
No Im not paranoid about it, just some thoughts on reducing injury as much as possible.
My driving is 90 % highway and mostly 2 lane highways with traffic flow of 65 mph.
Again not my intention to create a debate, but any discussion by those who have had minor or even major collision can share their stories.....

 

In 1967, my driving class was told if we could do a push up with 2000 lbs on our back that we did not need seat belts. It would be good to have lap belts at a minimum as nobody can predict when & where no matter how careful they are. You may have good highways in your part of Manitoba. All it would take is a vehicle trying to pass in a snow covered lane beside you do a wig wag & tag. One bump and the truck is off the road. We had that happen when I was a kid in my dad's friends 1959 Pontiac. There was snow on the highway and the truck beside us did a wig wag slip and with a tap we were sent off to the ditch. The car was full of kids and no one was hurt but if it had been sent into a culvert then it would have been horrific. I was in two accidents with my 73 Ford pick up where the seat belts saved my hide and one with my wife as a passenger. The first one the front passenger corner was seriously smashed & I was ok. The second was a good t-bone. We were in the city where a drunk ran a stop sign into a busy main street. I had to step on it to save my wife as brakes was not an option so he caught us in the cab corner and the box. The truck took a wild jump & the rear wheel caught the guy's bumper. Our truck bent the whole front of his big 70's Dodge over a foot sideways. The truck spun around about 1-1/2 times. Everything in the truck was at my wife's feet. I was able to get some half assed control as the truck came to a stop to avoid going into the on coming lanes. We were both okay and the belts kept us safe in our seats. Without the belts we would have been flying around inside the truck. I was in a 3 car collision in my uncles car where again everyone was okay. The belts make a difference and any one of the accidents could have been a trip to the hospital without belts. One unforgettable image was a early 60's Chev being towed that had the windshield stretched out in two big cones like Dolly Parton. Clearly a passenger and driver hit with their heads. Belts small investment that could save the truck's occupants from more serious injuries. At a minimum it gives the passenger the option to wear a belt.

 

Simple lapbelts can almost always be installed safely on any vehicle. While not the ultimate solution, they do perform one major purpose; they'll keep you in the car in case of an accident. The earlier cars didn't have the best door latches either, doors flying open and one or more of the occupants being ejected used to be common. A upgrade to 'bear claw' latches would help with that, I'm surprised more builders don't add these.

Over-the-shoulder belts present other problems. You need a pretty substantial structural upper mounting point for these, very few of our vintage cars will have that and adding it may be a major deal. And you have to be able to get it high enough; too low and they'll break your shoulder in an accident, even a middlin' minor one. Very tough to make it look 'right' on some vehicles, and can interfere with rear seat access. Truck cabs are probably one of the easier ones for shoulder belts IF you have a good upper attachment point.

When I was a kid, my parents and I were hit head-on in a '50 F-1 Ford by a drunk in a Studebaker. We were stopped, my dad saw the guy coming and pulled as far off the road as he could. No matter, he swerved and got us anyway. Impact was probably about 40 MPH. My dad was uninjured, he had the steering wheel to brace against. My mother attempted to restrain me with her left arm, I hit the windshield with my head and broke it (the resilience of kids; no concussion and just enough minor cuts to bleed like a stuck pig...). My mother braced herself with her right arm but still put her right knee into the dash (sturdy steel like yours, and she put an impressive-sized dent in it) and shattered her kneecap. Months in the hospital and she nearly lost her leg. Lap belts would probably have prevented all of this...

 

When I was a kid, my brother and I were in the back seat of my parent's 1967 Pontiac Catalina, and my brother was resting against the door...I think I was 7 and he was 3 at the time. We went around a bend, and the door flew open; he almost fell out of the car, I just happened to react in time to grab his arm while he was clinging to the arm rest with the other. I still remember the look on his face, and we were both screaming our little heads off until Dad was able to stop the car. I've always worn a seatbelt ever since, and equipped my '60 VW with lapbelts front and rear...I buckle up before I even start the car.

 

In June 1972 my parents were driving their 1963 Dodge Dart GT (with no seat belts) to a Bible School Program on an asphalt road close to Lewis Iowa. A car with a young couple and young children slid on the gravel road they were going too fast on (they were not familiar with the area) and slid through the stop sign and hit my parents in the left front fender. My parents car left the road way rolled and caught fire. Dad's head hit the A pillar hard enough that the mortician had concerns that he would not be viewable. Mom crushed her sternum evidently hitting the dash? Dad died at the scene and my mother died several hours later of internal injuries.
Note...this was a side hit, not a full frontal hit. If they would have had three point seat belts there is a good chance they would have lived to see more grandchildren. I have had seat belts in my cars since 1963, I have two point belts in the 38 Chevy (and I feel like maybe I should upgrade) and three point belts in my Stude.
I bought my last belts from GEM Street Rod Products, in Covina CA but when i called them today I got no answer. When I had talked to the owner over a year ago he was talking about retirement. I'd recommend them and their product if they are still there. The rewind mechanism is small and floor mounted and he told me they were the same ones that Julio sold.

 

Thanx for posting guys, some tragic stories that no doubt are very much a part of your lives
Yes I can recall people being ejected outta 60s and 70s cars. Or you get flung around a whole bunch inside.
Here's my B Pillar in my truck, was thinking with a reinforced plate at the mount point it might be plenty strong.
On the mount height, yes never thought of severe rotator cuff injuries.
At any rate most likely will install 2 or 3 sets of lap belts in it.

 

The other thing to remember is you have to get the upper shoulder belt mounting point behind you. Judging by where the OEMs mount theirs, fully behind. Too far forward and you may slam against the belt, causing injury. I'd want something pretty stout, and welded to the body structure, not bolted. I can see where it wouldn't be that tough to install a good mount, but paint repair from welding would be needed.

 

Ah yes, can now see that it may be to far forward if attached directly to B pillar.
Lap belts it is.. at least 4 now, which means forever

 

Lap belts should never be an option. I t-boned a SUV that made an
illegal left turn in front of me eight years ago, driving a '57 T-Bird.
I was using a lap belt, that kept me in the car, but put my face into
the steering wheel. I broke every bone in my face, broken nose,
knocked all my teeth out, concession, fractured ribs, lower spine
damage, and broke my left leg in four places. Totaled the Bird and
almost totaled me. A great surgeon that happened to be a personal
friend saved me.
I had a MRI this morning because of damage from this accident.
I will not drive or ride in a vehicle that does not have shoulder belts.
I have a three point belt system in my current '57 Bird and
'57 Ford Retractable. The anchoring point is not perfect for
the upper attachment point. It is possible some shoulder damage
could result in the event of another accident. In any case I
will not be eating another T-Bird steering wheel.
It is your choice, please think of your passengers.
Ernie

 

3pt are pretty much mandatory down here for modified cars however body style will determine if an exemption exists, eg. seat behind 'B' pillar and not practicable or safe. Upper, lower and anchorage points as well as approved belts and fasteners are required. It's not science to think about safety IMHO even though it may detract from appearance. Colour coded belts help with blending modern safety into your build. Aircraft style (Bomber) seats and belts aren't up to MV standards and aren't acceptable unless certified for road use.

 

I hear yah Brother, and sorry you got such a horrendous injury.
Would a shoulder harness have kept your face outta the steering wheel?
Did the steering column harpoon you into your seat?
The dash no doubt crashed inward severely and broke your legs I would assume. The big problem is of course the steering columns and big metal dashes crashing into the driver and passengers in our vintage vehicles. No collapsible column or front end crumple zones so everything comes backwards violently as the drivers goes forwards.
My truck has never had any seat belts to date and with me driving it for 8 years and thousands of miles.
I pretty much drive it like Im ridin a motorcycle.
Nows the time to add some.
3 point shoulder might not work well in my case.
Lap belts not the greatest but being ejected may not be so great either.
Every circumstance can be very different.
Thanks for your post..

 

Thanx for the info.
Although we are regulated in my Province of Canada, the federal government does not get involved in vintage vehicle safety regulations, each province does.
For example spinner knobs and bumperless vehicles are not allowed.
But cars and trucks that were not factory equipped with seatbelts don't require any.
To be honest hotrods, classic trucks and vintage cars are rarely in crashes my way.
I have never seen one yet and do not want to either... PS how on earth do you folks eat vegimite.....lol

 

I'm not sure what the regulations are in Canada, but these belts are attractive , DOT approved, safe and reasonable.

http://www.andoverrestraints.com/

 

It may seem trivial but there is a lot of engineering that goes into seat/shoulder belt mounting and angles where it crosses the body, newer belt systems and seats are different and designed to work in unison because they have explosive charge "pre-tensioners" to go along with the SRS(air bags) to pull you firmly back into the seat before the SRS hits you in the face. Seat design, mounting points are only part of the engineering, ensuring the mounting points deflect in a expected matter during a crash is another consideration. I.E. if the belts are mounted to the door as some
90's cars were and door of your hot rod opens in a crash because of latch design the belts are useless.
When determining where and how to mount be aware of all the moving parts is all I'm trying to say.