Hot Rods The "Whatever" project

Oh and the other sled is coming along. Santa needs it by the 24th! No pictures tonight tho...

 

Somehow I got the idea you were building a 2 seater. I believe a San Jose coupe body (like my old west coast mod, post 118) would go right on there.

 

Yes Fabber, I like that look. We never got that style of modified/supermodified here in the NE where I raced. I read about you guys racing in Arizona, California, and the upper west coast in Dick Bergren's old Stockcar Racing Magazine back in the day. I sort of remember reading about someone named Pombo or something like that in particular. An interesting aside: I bought a lot of stuff from Lavern Nance back then, and used to call him for some unknown reason routinely. I don't know how we took to talking as time went by weekly give or take. Bottom line mid 70s Syracuse was holding the yearly modified BIG DIRT race, and the Saturday race was for the USAC dirt champ cars. I mentioned this to him, whereupon he said he hadn't been to Syracuse sincethe USACraces in the 60s when he ran champ cars

Taling a chance, I got 2 extra tickets and asked the lady in my home town who made all of the hotel reservations for most of our area if there was any rooms left (there were). The next timeI was on the phone with Mr. Nance, I told him I had these available, which he accepted. He and his missus flew in before the races, which was quite a surprise that it happened, to me (hey I was 21 or 22 years old an a nobody). But walking around the paddock with him, he made me feel like I was important to him. He knew everybody associated with the USAC crowd, and introduced me to all his friends. I was walking on clouds that day! As you can tell, that was a highlite of my life and still is one of my most cherished memories, and not just from racing, life in general.

And a neat aside, Mr. Nance sold me a set of 37-40 Ford spindles (his last set in stock) for $10 to use on my modified. I never used them, and still have them on my basement workbench. They almost went on the Whatever, but I just couldn't! And that's how we all collect too much stuff...

I liked the bodies we had in the 70s, but even those are too big for the Whatever chassis, if I continue in this direction with it. Even tho the cage is tacked on and together, I may still remove it and put a t bucket body on. See this is why I call it the whatever. I've got time todecide until the nextmajor purchase happens, which will be either a t body or Speedway's A Vicky, in which case it becomes a close cousin to your car. As I have never liked doing body work, I don't think a roadster like that Lazzerini one will happen. There would be too much fiddly work I don't like.

If you have other pictures of your cars please post them here for me. I can use the ideas and encouragement. Remember early on Istated my philosophy, "Plaigerize, Plaigerise, Plaigerize". Afterall imitation is the greatest compliment!

 

Santa is getting his sled before I finish the "Whatever". Maybe if I'm a good boy he'll bring me some more parts for Christmas!

I've been sketching. Too many interests, only room for 1 project... Back on the "Whatever" tomorrow.

 

Hey Dave, I don't have any pictures of the old modified available other than that one. My dad took a lot of slides, but I don't want to dig through all of those. I ran that car from 75 -79, then our open wheel class switched to sprints.

 

I remembered a couple that were sent to me a couple years ago by a guy on my crew that has retired to Mexico and is now building and crashing R/C planes to occupy his time, haha.

 

Thanks Fabber. You know its amazing how similar and yet different modified/supermodified race cars from the 70s were. Wheels, hubs, basic suspension setup, engines and upon close examination box tube frames. And yet different.

Glass bodies vs. steel bodies (altho cut apart and remade to fit), transmissions with working clutches and reverse vs. in/out boxes, wings vs. no wings. An east coast modified could be cut down bodywise and a wing added (probably wouldn't be too competetive), but there's probably no way the westcoast cars could be stretched/clutched/dewinged/transmissioned and rebodied w/o saying let's just start over. But boy would a run what you brung race be interesting back then.

Eastern cars would bring injected big blocks with a wing tacked on. You guys would probably run a load of nitro. We would all have fun, but probably destroy a lot of machinery. Aahh to dream!

 

Dave, if you were closer, I'd fix you up with this body. It's narrowed, shorten'ed and chopped, and needs a home !

 

That would fit sooooo nice. Yeah east coast west coast back to east coast. I'm not up to it any more. Lived in the midwest for 13 years and had to drive home for holidays, weddings, funerals, build a deck for my mom. Used to do 650 miles one way in a day. No problem when you are in your 30s and 40s. Can't sit for more than a couple of hours now without being incapacitated the next day.

Wouldn't take much to alter the cage to fit tho, would it? Thanks anyway Marty.

 

Well we have snow butt deep up here in upstate NY, so I'm going out to the shop when I finish this update and tinkering with the Whatever.

Wheels are on order: 15x8 steel wheels cause they're affordable. Lug nuts too... Probably will get Towel City cheater slicks eventually. I've got new grooving iron blades coming as well, so when I get the tires i can groove them with the old dirt track waffle pattern. For this winter my local mechanic (hey I don't wrench on the daily driver, too much electronics on it) always has castoff tires, so as long as they hold air...

Steering is on the agenda. I've made mounts for a Schroeder box, and now need to make gussets or ??? to weld them to the chassis. I'll take pictures later today and post them.

Meanwhile, I don't have to go anywhere, so I'm not leaving the inside of the house or garage.

 

No pictures, rethinking the whatever. Mocked up the Schroeder box in the chassis as shown a little earlier, and tried to climb in and out with the seat mocked up where I would need it. Guess what, I don't fit! Well the seat still fits my ample derrier but the problem is I don't bend in the middle any more. I know others have similar problems, back related, and sympathise with any of you in the same shape.

So thanks to inspiration from Rebinging on Marty Strode's #10 roadster build, I am going back to an earlier iteration, and will be getting a t body and turtle deck soon, and taking the roll cage off. Don't worry I have plans for it later.

In the meantime, I need a Vega box, probably new but if someone has a good used one close to Gansevoort, NY, let me know and we can arrange a deal. I'm thinking of reversing it like done to Corvair boxes, and using it like a Mustang box. Maybe... or just go with cross steering, even tho that means lots of u-joints, shafts, and support bearings that I don't really like.

I got my new wheels, repop 8 inch rallye rims for a 5x5 bolt pattern. They clear my brake setup. Now tires. Wanting a slight rubber rake, my current thinking is 235/50-15 fronts, and 235/60-15 rears. I have considered cheater slicks or pie crust slicks on the back but thenwhat do I use on the front. I don't really like skinny fronts, I like the look of the Cotton Werksman roadster as it was in that 1968 issue of R&C with the Indycar tires.

So lots of sketching to do, dimensions to check, and design criteria to reevaluate. Oh the foibles of being a retired engineer...

 

Finalised tire choice for now... maybe hopefully. 235/60-15 front, 255/60-15 rear, gives a slight rubber rake, and the look is close enough to Indy tires like on the Werksman roadster in 68. T bucket (25) from Speedway next with a turtle deck. And I will be using an S10-T5 Camaro T5 crossbreed for transmission. The shorty T10 (missing reverse) is going back on the shelf to wait for another project (which will also incorporate the roll cage previously on the whatever). Its good to be retired!

 

Well the cage is off, and it's now a roller! A glass T body is next. Here's the "Whatever" with tires and wheels: So a Speedway body is next to be ordered, basic body and turtle deck. I'm going for the Marty Strode look for the body, but I like wider tires, so...

Now the only problem is shipping. I don't know how that's going to work out. I live on a small cul-de-sac off of a small side street in a small town and can see an 18 wheeler with a long haul tractor and 53 foot trailer trying to get it to me. What does everybody think I need to ask regarding shipping? All the years I've played with cars, I've never had anything really large shipped to me.

So comments, advice, suggestions. I'm open to any and all. Thanks guys...

Oh and I now know that I need to raise the ride height. It only has 3 1/2 inches, but adjustability is built in so no problem. I may be moving the attachment points for the rear radius rod/hairpin once I get the body, but as everything is only tacked at present, no problem.

 

Do you have a pickup or small trailer to transfer new body to ? If so meet the truck at Scotty’s / Exit 16.
Stretch

 

That's a damn good suggestion Stretch (Hand slap to forehead, well 7 am head, I've done it too many times and wore off the hair). It's only a 1/2 mile away, and yes I have a nice little trailer for my OT Austin Mini. Brilliant!

This is why I keep coming back to the HAMB. If you guys can't figure something out, it's not worth figuring.

 

Your welcome. I am two miles away. Give a shout if you need a hand .
Stretch

 

Finally got something done on the "Whatever". Not much, but something.

Did away with the complicated Watts link for the rear axle, and am going with a panhard bar. Yes it will be short, but much more room around the front of the QC. Giving more clearance to the bottom back of the body. From this, to this,well the bracket is in at least. Hey its cold up here in the northeast, and even tho the garage is heated, it takes the fun out of working in the garage for old arthritic guys.

I'll be using a so called J-bar to go over or under the yolk and attach to the left side of the frame. I've got to get to my old place of employment to get to a bender to form the 7/8 heavy wall tube into the shape needed, and also to collect all of my left behind stuff I never got when I retired. This week maybe...

And here's a side shot of the chassis with tires: That's all folks!

 

Dave, you could fab a bracket to bolt to the center section, that holds a urethane wheel. Then fab a crossmember with a couple vertical angle runners. The rear axle would stay centered, without any bind. I did this one 43 years ago, mounting the wheel behind, yours would be in front.

 

Not bad, Marty. I could just rotate the bracket just made 90 degrees and do that. Kind of just like what the Cunninghams had to locate the front and rear axles. Hmmm...

 

The thing I like about it is, keeping the rear centered. I learned it from a friend who helped build a sports car in the late 50's.

 

Great idea!

 

So maybe rearrange the configuration a little. Put the roller on the frame, and the channel on the rear. This keeps the roll center constant relative to the CG. Maybe worth considering for the front as well. Hmmm...

Now you see why I named it the "Whatever". Things keep coming up that I like.

 

There are add on front axle doohickys that do this allready. @Malcolm might have one on his roadster?

 

Here https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/dead-perch-which-side-for-a-cross-steer-model-a.983634/

 

Finally back at it in the garage. Turned the heat up, and made the rear panhard bar stuff. The bar is short, but with the limited travel built in there is only a maximum of 1/4 inch lateral travel at maximum droop or extension. I can live with that for the simplicity. I still have a slight change I may make, which will make the bar a little longer, which is always good. It looks close, but one thing I didn't think about, but happenstance helped out, is the wishbone makes the axle rotate as the suspension travels. The drive yolk rotates away from the bar in down travel, and doesn't get close on up travel.

And I added some new stuff to my shop. I don't have a lot of extra space (who does???). I have wanted a band saw to cut brackets out with, but the price of new units is not something I can justify. Further, the room required is restrictive. So what to do? And finding a metal cutting bandsaw in decent shape and getting to it before someone else plops down the $$$, well I needed an alternative.

For about a third the cost, I bought a new Milwaukee corded portable bandsaw, and then a bought a Swag Offroad compact table accessory for it. It's limited on cut size, probably no bigger than a 10 inch diameter part can be cut out on it, but since I don't make brackets that big, no problem. This thing is well made, altho I did make a couple of changes (hey I'm a retired engineer, it's what I did. I have the "Knack" after all).

It doesn't take up much room, can be stored on a shelf when not needed, and the saw can be removed in 30 seconds or less for use to make long cutoffs.

Since getting this I have been making a lot of bits and bobs for the Whatever, just not much to show.

So now on to the body. With an estimated 8 to 10 week delivery for a t-bucket and turtle deck, if I order it now it should arrive around early April. Steering is coming along too.;

 

Dave, Troy at Swag Off Road builds some nice tool accessories at a reasonable price, very innovative guy. He used to be less than an hour from me, until he moved to the other side of the mountain (180 miles).

 

I spoke with him when I bought the table. I asked him when he was going to make dies for the Eastwood tubing bender (just barely visible on the welding table),as I already bought the air/hydraulic kit he sells for it (great idea there too). Both kits are so well made, and cost effective for us seldom users. Really good stuff at reasonable prices. Back to the dies...

He wouldn't say, but didn't deny it. Hopefully he will make dies at a reasonable price. I need a couple of different sizes, and while I am happy with the cost and quality of the Eastwood bender, I prefer to buy USA made stuff. Of course where the Eastwood bender came from and the salethey had when I bought it was the reason for that purchase 2 or 3 years before I needed it.

So Marty, are you making progress on any of your projects? I keep forgetting to check. I keep practicing my welding as I haven't donea lot for a number of years. Maybe some day I'll get to the dime, dime, dime beads, but at least I have gotten away from the quarter, dime, dime, nickle, quarter... you get the idea. I still remember being taught the ABC's of welding: always be comfortable. In my space limited shop, sometimes that's a tall order.

 

Just an update on the panhard bar bracketry.
It's not too clear here, but the bracket is basically dropped and straightened so all 3 holes for the rod end are now vertical. When I next take it off, it will get some gusseting to resist flex and bending. The bar is not long, but it clears the u-joint by a lot in the bottom hole, adequately in the middle hole, and if I need to use the upper hole, I will make a J-bar to clear the u-joint.

The only other thing done today wasshop cleanup. It really needed it. Now I canfind tools again. And move around without tripping over stuff. I even set the roll cage back on the frame, just to get it out of the way until I can clean and rearrange my shed so it can be stored there. Hey I can't toss it, it came out betterthan I had a right to expect! Its really just sitting there, its not permanent. A Nance style sprint frame may be in my future to use it and the Schroeder steering box... Well, maybe.

 

Back in the garage today, making rod end spacers. Used my Sears Craftsman late 40's lathe inherited from a great uncle: I feel sorry for you if you have experience with one of these... Oh well, it's what I have, and being 1/2 Scotts, well free is good. Used 3/4 heavy wall tube scraps from the short bin (otherwise known as the junk bucket), drilled to 1/2 inch id, and bevelled a chamfer on one end. Part off to length, and viola, a rod end spacer. Only takes 20 or so minutes each using this fine piece of engineering. Just think Ratrodder, some day it will be yours...

Made a few today, more tomorrow. Thank god I use 1/2 inch fasteners mostly for suspension, it save time when making this kind of stuff. And yes using quality fasteners this size for most locations is safe from a strength aspect. After all, how many of us use 5/8 clevises. Haveyou giventhought to the 3/8 bolt holding them on?

Or ever considered the cross section of a Ford rod end when using it for a split wishbone attachment? The 11/16 thread old Ford ends are actually rather skinny where the shearforce acts. And remember they were designed to connect the spindles to each other and act in a push-pull fashion. When we use them for split bones they now have a bending component as well to resist as they keep the axle from spinning on the spindle's axis. The old time racers used the heavier 3/4 thread Ford Truck ends as it gave them a little more margin of safety.

Okay, I've said all I'm going to say about that...

 

Dad being a 37 year Machinist, And one of my best friends who apprenticeship under my Dad would truly appreciate your Olde vintage machinery getting it done .
When is Body coming ?
Stretch