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Projects Tim's (aka anothercarguy) 1938 Ford Club Cabriolet Build Thread

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by anothercarguy, Dec 10, 2020.

  1. Thanks for the comments...I've looked at that as well. The only body mount kits that I've been able to find say they fit closed cars. I don't know what the difference would be between the closed and open car body mount kits. Looking at the kits, was how I came up with the idea of using the 2" round reinforced rubber cushions.

    Edit...after a better and more thorough job of Google searching, I did find the 1940 convertible cushion kits. Thanks.
     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2020
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  2. Makes sense, thanks for that.
     
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  3. ronzmtrwrx
    Joined: Sep 9, 2008
    Posts: 1,137

    ronzmtrwrx
    Member

    I’m pretty sure the open cars had thicker material between the frame and body. Kube over on the FordBarn or maybe 39guy on here can shed some light on it. My 39 had a couple layers on top of the frame but I don’t know what the closed cars have.
     
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  4. The 39 guy
    Joined: Nov 5, 2010
    Posts: 3,524

    The 39 guy
    Member

    Bob Drake offers a kit for a 40 Ford convertible. I would think the mounting would be very close to what could be used on your car. I have no real experience with the convertible mounts though. I do think the cowl area needs to be mounted on firmer pads to help reduce cowl shake.
     
  5. ronzmtrwrx
    Joined: Sep 9, 2008
    Posts: 1,137

    ronzmtrwrx
    Member

    I’ve been wondering about that too. I would think the stiffer you could make the frame, and more solidly you mounted the body, the less flex you’d have in the cowl area. My car had awful floors, and with the top down you could push on the windshield posts and keep the doors from latching. I had to add a lot of square tubing and get my gaps close before I pulled the body. I’m planning on partially boxing and gusseting my frame to hopefully remedy the weakness. I’m open to suggestions though if someone else has done that before.
     
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  6. Just a minor update on some of the goings on over the past week and a bit on the '38. I took the 2 corner braces and the trunk latch bracket that were still attached to the original tool tray and carefully cut them free. They spent a little time in the sandblast cabinet, followed by cutting and replacing the rusty bits, hammered on them some until they were the shape needed and then welded them into place. Little projects like this seem to always take way more time than you would ever imagine.

    upload_2020-12-23_16-18-50.png
    20201219_134309_resized.jpg 20201219_134343_resized.jpg
    I then switched my attention to adding a bit more triangulated body bracing between the trunk and passenger compartment to help provide a bit more rigidity to the back half of the car. While there, I also added a small 1" heavy wall tubing crash bar between the rear wheel wells and the door post on each side. I know they won't help much in a major collision, but they may provide some added protection in a minor accident. Before adding these braces, I temporarily installed the top irons to make sure there was no conflict for the space.

    20201223_151548_resized.jpg I then spend about 3 days bolting down, and shimming the body. I used the 2" round x 1/4" thick disks of conveyor belting as isolators along with S/S fender washers as shims. Once firmly bolted down, I cut free all teh interior bracing. Once all bracing was out, I spent another 1/2 day adjusting the shims further for the driver's door fit. No pictures, but the progress felt real good!

    I had also mentioned in an earlier post that I needed to get a few more pictures of the repairs to the cowl vent. Here's a couple more pictures of the metal work in that area. Also note that I cut out the holes for the windshield wiper towers. I plan on using a Specialty Windows kit for the wipers and towers.
    20201223_151748_resized.jpg 20201223_151807_resized.jpg
    My next update will probably have something to do with doors as that's where I plan to focus my next bit of time (after Christmas). Speaking of Christmas, for anyone that is still watching, have a happy, healthy, safe and Merry Christmas!
     
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  7. J. A. Miller
    Joined: Dec 30, 2010
    Posts: 2,057

    J. A. Miller
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Central NY

    Merry Christmas to you too Tim!
     
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  8. Yes:rolleyes:
     
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  9. nrgwizard
    Joined: Aug 18, 2006
    Posts: 2,515

    nrgwizard
    Member
    from Minn. uSA

    Maybe if the cabbie gets chopped a whole inch, wife might be ok w/that? Or less ! ? ... :D . Just enough to make the cabbie look a bit more like Fords' advertising pics/drawings, = just a bit better in the proportions dept. Or maybe even 1.5"? Just enough to get folks wondering ... wtf... is this stock height? If they even notice, other than to just have that perplexed look on their faces trying to figure out why the proportions are better. :D . Love messing w/people that way. You're doing very nice work.
    Marcus...
     
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  10. TaterTots
    Joined: Dec 27, 2020
    Posts: 15

    TaterTots
    Member

    Henryj429- I know, not the right fourm but I have no clue as to why HAMB wont let me start a conversation with you or message you about your classifieds. Any idea? I saw an old post for a rear fender for a 38-41PU I would like to buy if available. Thanks, Alex
     
  11. I've sent @henryj429 a message for you.
     
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  12. I think there are some new anti-spammer rules in effect that prevent new users with less than X number of posts from doing that stuff.
     
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  13. Happy New Year everyone...let's hope all things good about 2021 beats the snot out of 2020!

    Thought I might give a bit of an update. I've spent the last week working on the passenger door as it had the least damage of the two doors. First order of business was to strip it to assess the actual condition. Using the HF sandblaster, I blasted around the edges and the inner panel. The old primer was removed from the outer skin. I'll add that the old primer sands like a combination of concrete and bubble gum. I used a 3M strip-it disc, 80 grit DA, a belt sander (yes I said belt sander) with a 40 grit belt, and a disc sander with worn 36 grit disc. I finally got it down to clean metal and found some deep rust pitting, a few perforations, some rust swelling at the flanges, a number of stress cracks and broken welds and more than a few dents with stretched sheet metal including some major binding of the door skin at the lower hinge. 20201224_142708_resized.jpg 20201224_142750_resized.jpg 20201224_142818_resized.jpg 20201224_142851_resized.jpg 20201224_142900_resized.jpg 20201224_142912_resized.jpg .

    My first priority was to restore the strength/integrity to the door by welding up all the cracks using the mig welder.

    20201229_135504_resized.jpg 20201229_135510_resized.jpg

    I next went at the swollen flange under the upper hinge. I ran a zip wheel down the inside edge of the folded door skin flange and then used a carbide burr to cut the perpendicular cut line (see photo below) as it's awkward to cut in the area. After removing the folded flange and cleaning up and treating the metal underneath (Phosphoric acid/Rust Mort Rust Convertor), I laid in a new piece, welded it up and ground it smooth.
    20201227_112410_resized.jpg 20201227_113205_resized.jpg 20201228_123638_resized.jpg
    Next up, I decided to cut out the lower half of the inner panel. This allowed me to strip out the old undercoating that was in poor condition (cracked and peeling), assess the actual condition of the door bottom and door skin and gave me access to the backside of the door skin for the patch. I removed the panel such to ease welding it back in later. Once the panel was off, I stripped the undercoating with a heat gun and scraper and then wiped it with lacquer thinner.
    20201229_135525_resized.jpg 20201229_135545_resized.jpg 20201229_140551_resized.jpg 20201229_150902_resized.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2021
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  14. The bottom 6" of the door skin and the bottom part of the inner frame were terminal. But, before I cut them off, I welded in a piece of 1"x2"x .125" wall tubing just below where the window will roll down to. This serves to maintain the door frame shape while I cut it apart and will remain in place inside the door as a side impact bar should the car get T-boned in the door area. I'm very aware how little steel there is between me and the surrounding traffic while driving my 1928 A-V8 roadster. I want this car to provide more peace of mind.

    I then used the door skin and door bottom as patterns for making their replacements before I cut the lower 6-7" of the door skin and door bottom free. I rolled the replacement door skin on the English wheel and the door bottom was folded on the brake followed by a few minutes with the shrinker.

    20201230_131258_resized_1.jpg
    20201231_092751_resized.jpg 20201231_134125_resized.jpg I then folded the replacement door skin edges to 90 degrees in the brake prior to clamping it in place on the door. Once I was happy with the fit, I tacked the new skin in place using the mig welder (I find it easier than tacking with the tig) and then ground the tacks flat.
    20201231_140047_resized.jpg 20201231_140056_resized.jpg 20201231_143706_resized.jpg
    I'm going to go into a bit of detail as to how I welded on the door skin because I hope it might prove helpful for someone going forward. I will add the following caveat, the tig welding approach is new to me (this is the first car that I've done/am doing with tig), so if you see something that I'm doing that could be improved upon, I'm open to suggestions. And, my tig welds are far from perfect. That said, this approach does seem to be working for me so thought I would share it. The mig tack welds are about every inch starting in the middle and working my way out to each side. I then ran the tig from one side to the other (from left to right in my case because I'm left handed). I run about 2" of weld, stop for about a minute or two, then carry on welding the next 2" until I cross the entire panel. The exception to this is the outermost 2" on each side of the replacement door skin where I welded with the mig welder. I mig welded the edges because I don't have access to the back side in those areas.
    20210101_113027_resized.jpg
    Now, after the new panel is fully welded, there is some warpage (some might even consider it to be a significant amount of warpage!). I want to tell a story on myself...when I began welding on hotrods with an oxy-acetylene torch 35 years ago, I got similar warpage (maybe even more so) and ruined quite a number of panels trying to shrink those warps out, or worse, covered a lot of bruising with significant coats of mud. I now have a better understanding of the process and will share. If you know all about this, you can nod knowingly, but I'm hoping this might prove helpful for someone like myself 35-40 years ago ;). Consider, this panel has a fair amount of convex shape, but after the welding I had a number of areas where the shape turned concave.
    20210101_113133_resized.jpg 20210101_113153_resized.jpg The key is to know, that the panel was the correct shape before the welding...and the only place the panel could have changed is clearly shown by bluish coloring along side the weld called the heat affected zone (HAZ). The first thing I do is to knock down the raised area of the weld trying as much as possible to not touch the adjacent metal on each side of the weld to preserve its thickness. Note, the HAZ coloration has not even been removed.
    20210101_114147_resized.jpg
    I use a couple different style grinders for this. I use a small 2" Roloc style disc (with a sharp disc 24-36 grit) as well as a 7 1/2" flexible 36 grit disc without a backing pad. I put 2 discs back to back so I can use both sides of the grinder depending on what, how and where I'm grinding (be careful of your knuckles). The other thing that I do with the back to back disc grinder set-up is once the discs begin losing their sharpness, I use a dedicated pair of aviation snips to cut the outer 1/4" of the disc off all the way around (so the disc is now 1/2" smaller in diameter). It then cuts like a new disc again. I do this until the discs are down to about 2-3" in diameter. I then throw them out and restart with a couple new 7 1'/2" discs again.
    20210101_114223_resized.jpg 20210101_114247_resized.jpg
    Enough about the grinders :rolleyes:, once the weld is ground, I use a hammer on dolly technique over the entire length of the weld to planish out the shrinkage caused by the welding process. All of the hammer on dolly work is contained within the HAZ. I really like using Martin body hammers and dollies as they have a very nice balance and heft to them. And my favorite dolly for this process is the Martin 1064 Egg shape. The shape is pretty much perfect for cars of the era that we are working on. Enough with the Martin sales pitch (I have no affiliation).
    20210101_120424_resized.jpg
    Stretching the weld over the length removed all the concave shape and allowed the panel to fully relax back into the proper convex shape. I then used a Martin Door Skin hammer (model 170FG, I can get a picture of it if anyone wants) and a Martin Toe dolly to fold over the door skin at the edges. Next, I spent time hammer off dolly to work out the remaining high and low spots before going over the weld area with an 80 grit disc on a DA sander. Once done, I painted the inside of the door with Rustoleum primer, stuck some Dynamat on the inside door skin while I had good access, and then re-welded the inner panel in place.
    20210101_152754_resized.jpg 20210102_125624_resized.jpg
    And lastly, re-hung the door. Next project will be the drivers door...it's in worse shape.
    20210101_150858_resized.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2021
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  15. J. A. Miller
    Joined: Dec 30, 2010
    Posts: 2,057

    J. A. Miller
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Central NY

    Nice repair on the door Tim!
     
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  16. Thanks.
     
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  17. goldmountain
    Joined: Jun 12, 2016
    Posts: 4,442

    goldmountain

    The last time I used those blue wingnut panel clamping things like you used made me think there has to be a better way that gives a tighter gap.
     
  18. Yes, I thought that as well...but frankly was being a bit lazy because I have a drawer full of these clamps on hand. I've also seen where guys use a strip of sheet metal strap about 1" x 2" with 2 - 1/8" holes drilled (one on each end). the two main panels are put together (without gap) and the strap is placed on top and used as a guide for drilling 1/8" holes in both panels and then all three pieces are held together with clecos or self tapping screws. I should probably invest a few minutes to make up some of these strap clamps and experiment further. Good suggestion.
     
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  19. The 39 guy
    Joined: Nov 5, 2010
    Posts: 3,524

    The 39 guy
    Member

    You did that in one week?? Probably will take me a month at least . Nice work Tim and very well explained. I may have to borrow a tig welder( and someone to run it ) for my door skins. Here is a picture of your door skin Hammer Martin 170FG
    [​IMG]
     
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  20. loudbang
    Joined: Jul 23, 2013
    Posts: 40,276

    loudbang
    Member

    Nice work and illustrations. :)
     
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  21. Thanks guys!
     
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  22. joel
    Joined: Oct 10, 2009
    Posts: 2,467

    joel
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    You are fearless. Great metal work. You didn’t say anything about the tig welder settings. I set my Miller to around 45 A and probably use 1/2 to 2/3 of that with my foot. Also I use.030 to .045 mig wire for filler. Just FYI because your work is superior to mine. Keep it up.


    Sent from my iPhone using H.A.M.B.
     
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  23. Thanks Joel, I had to go down to the shop and check the tig settings on my welder. I too am around 40A and use the top 1/2 of the foot pedal. I've been using 1/16" ER70S-2 filler rod. When I first began with the tig welder, I tried using "straightened" .035 mig wire as the filler rod but felt more comfortable using the 1/16". Now that I've welded some, I should try the .035" mig wire again. Do you "straighten" the mig wire? If so, how do you do it?
     
  24. alchemy
    Joined: Sep 27, 2002
    Posts: 20,405

    alchemy
    Member

    You know the feeling you get when welding a patch into a body and dipping the wire, then think "I'll just try fusing the panels with no wire", and you go a couple inches with no holes >> The clouds in the skies open and angels sing!

    Panel fit is everything. I'll have to try using some MIG wire for those in-between days.
     
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  25. Nice job and interesting to see. Good to compare door construction variations too, since we have both tackled a similar task.
     
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  26. joel
    Joined: Oct 10, 2009
    Posts: 2,467

    joel
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I have never succeeded in getting the mig wire straight; the best i can do is a gentle curve. I generally try to pull it between my thumb and fore finger 3 or4 in. at a time. Like I said , I never get it straight. Also I can't use a glove on my left hand when feeding the thin wire. My wire is also ER 70s. Fun, Fun, Fun!
     
  27. Do it Over
    Joined: Dec 25, 2017
    Posts: 478

    Do it Over
    Member
    from NYC, NY

    I cut it to the length I like. Clamp one end in the vise and chuck the other in the drill and slowly twist the wire. It straightens and stiffened in one shot.
     
  28. Neat project, neat shop! Thanks for sharing your fan box, it made me realize I have all the parts to build one myself!
     
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  29. Thanks for the tip!

    Thank you. I think you'll like the fan box. Mine is on castors, so it easily rolls around and becomes another small mobile flat surface/tool tray/work table.
     
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  30. Great, all I need is another flat surface to collect junk! I think I may have to add some sort of storage to the top to keep that from happening. Maybe an upright rack to hang all my grinders and clamps?
     

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