Technical 241 Dodge Hemi Questions

I'm looking into buying and using a Dodge 241 for a future project which would be a fenderlesss '30 Model A Coupe. I went to look at a 241 Dodge Red Ram today that a friend hoarded away years ago. It appears to be pretty complete. Engine is currently stuck but barring it having a broken crankshaft or cracked block it seems it would be worth taking a gamble at the $400 price.

I found a couple dimensioned drawings of various hemis in another thread. If the one drawing I saw was indeed for a 241 it showed the length at 30 1/2" or 31 1/2" from the rear of the block bellhousing surface to the flange of the water pump. As difficult as it was to get to the 241 today, and being as careful measuring as I could be, I only came up with a length of about 28 3/4"! If I were to buy and rebuild the 241 I would likely make the change to a SBC short water pump to possibly save space, and reduce the weight a bit. I'm not certain now though if the SBC short water pump and the adapters needed would actually shorten the overall length any. My hope is that it might be made short enough to fit a Model A with stock radiator location without cutting into the firewall.

Could someone with a 241 confirm the length from the back of the block to the water pump's flange for the fan, and note what pump is being used? I'd really appreciate it!

I'm still on the fence about buying, rebuilding and using the 241 vs using a 283 SBC that I already have. As fickle as it is, I'd like the visual impact of the Hemi over the all-too-common SBC.

Barring any really unexpected problems during a rebuild it seems by the time I'd buy an aftermarket aluminum intake, and a transmission adapter for the Dodge it would get into my pockets to the tune of about $4000, and maybe $5000 is actually more realistic. Honestly it would be out of character for me to spend that much on a street engine, but I could dig into my pocket a bit deeper just this one time.

I have in mind a basically stock rebuild but add a reground hydraulic flat tappet cam with a just-over-stock profile and either a single 4 barrel or 2 X 2 intake and carbs. I've built headers before so I'd also plan to build headers to help the exhaust flow a bit. My interest isn't to build a race car, and I wouldn't be out to impress anyone with a nasty "cruise-in" idle. I would expect the car to run down the road at 70 MPH and take on hills without too much struggle. Considering the '30 Coupe might weigh 2400#, or maybe less (?) I think even getting the 241 to 160-180 HP should be able to do that.

Thanks, in advance if you have a 241 Dodge Hemi to get a length measurement or to offer other advice about using/building one.

Lynn

 

Where is the block cracked? And how extensive? How much will a welding shop charge to weld it up? If around the freeze plugs it probably can be fixed, but you may be best buying it for parts & getting another block.

 

George...Perhaps I didn't word my post very well but I don't know if the block is cracked. I really have no reason to think or expect it is but I do have to be aware of that possibility.

Lynn

 

I will look at mine today, it's apart but I can get the dimensions

 

Can you take the heads off easy,i bought a 354 out of a dump truck,it was stuck solid.Got it home and removed the heads,it was rusted beyond beleif,two of the cylinders were busted as water got in and froze it.If you could talk the seller into letting you remove the heads,tell him if its fine youll take it?,Heads are not a big job to remove on them, Good Luck

 

OK, miss read it. $400 is a good price for a good core. Advertised C/R id 7-7.1:1, one measured out @ 6.19:1 an upgrade to 9 or 10:1 would be in order. Will need a damper added.

 

Is that without firewall modification or moving the radiator forward? That's being hopeful, but I fear not likely.

Lynn

 

Block length is 20.3125, stock crossover is 3.75, stock pump is 3.125. Total 27.1875 from back of block to fan mount on pump.

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I think that the HEMI fad is starting to phase out. I saw a 54 Chrysler New Yorker on CL, complete for 500 bucks, motor turns over, it was on there for a few weeks before being sold at a lower price. They are just too expensive to rebuild.

 

Wow! That's a steal! Been interesting to see if it was a long or short tail.

 

Aren't New Yorkers 4 BBL engines and 4 BBL engines short tails?

Cripes, the manifold and carb are worth most of that (if they weren't missing).

 

Hey, you just saved me from actually doing some 'work' today. Thanks

They cost no more to properly rebuild than a 371 Olds, 364 Buick or a Flathead. The usual cost over-runs are adding the eye candy or using a sketchy machine shop.
The OP has hopes of keeping the cost to $4k so he will have to watch every penny.

.

 

The 241 is a great little package, but they can get expensive. I went the Chevy water pump route on this one, with an adapter to later Ford 3 speed trans. Schneider ground the camshaft. It's been on the road over 15 years, with 28,000 miles, and runs great.

 

Marty, that is a nice little pacakge. How well does it run w/o plug wires....?
All kidding aside, your roadsters are top shelf.

Another project for the OP to follow is Projects - Poly begets a Hemi | The H.A.M.B. (jalopyjournal.com)

.

 

I'll actually add to that a bit. Staying around $4K would be nice but I can spend more if that is what it would take. My wife has an easier time to say "go for it, if that's what you want" than for me to actually decide to spend money. A lifetime of frugality is hard to break, but then again that's why I have some play money now in retirement.

Thanks everyone for the comments and thanks to you, woodscraper, for the measurement!

Lynn

 

The original plan was the NYer would get the 2 bl long tail & the NYer Deluxe & Imperial would get the 4 bl short tail. Seems there aren't many long tails in '54.

 

I'm only experienced with the early Chrysler hemi motor, but I believe that going to an aluminum intake manifold and tubular hearers saved a bunch of weight. We also used an aluminum Chevy water pump for the same reason – along with the availability of a later Chevy pump when one takes a dump in Bumpfudge, NV (only six miles west of the 93).

 

I have a hemi (out of a '54 New Yorker) in my race car (avatar). It is a "short tail" and came with the "wet" 4 BBL manifold. I was able to save a bunch of weight by going to an aluminum intake manifold and a "Hot Heads" aluminum timing cover and an aluminum SBC water pump.

 

tubman.....please post some photos of your engine if you have any! I think we'd all appreciate some "Hemi porn" for ideas and motivation.

FWIW....I'm really starting to lean really heavily to the 241 Hemi for my '30 Coupe and looking forward to another build. I can't wait to get the fendered '31 Coupe that I'm currently building running and on the road. I'll just save the 283 Chevy I have for the future or perhaps sell it. I'm trying to avoid having excess inventory. I can't ever find anything as it is and more things around just add to the confusion.

Thanks, one and all!

Lynn

 

Here's what I have on this computer (I'm in Florida for the winter).

In the early '60's, I built a "T" Bucket with a junkyard 241 hemi. It smoked and knocked, but it ran. About 6 months later, I was able to buy a slightly wrecked '55 Custom Royal 2 door hardtop from the town drunk who had left it in the local Legion club when it wouldn't start, for the princely fee of $10 (plus a bottle of Grain Belt Premium). I resurrected it, fixed the problem and drove it to the U of M for the rest of the term.

After school was out, I pulled the engine and installed it in my bucket. The car was a relatively low-miler that ran very well (and it had the optional 4 barrel carburetor). With a Dodge 3-speed and 4.30 gears out of a Plymouth station wagon, the car was a block to block beast. I had a set of 7.60-15 Ellingson (remember them, Minneapolis guys?) recap slicks on the back; low gear in that car could turn them hard old buggers into instant smoke.

It was a glorious summer!

 

Oh, WOW! I can imagine hearing it coming off of Turn 4. Thanks.

Lynn

 

That reminded me that I had posted this picture on here before.

 

I was building an F 100 with a SBC. Was almost done when I changed to a Y-Block engine. So happy I did! Please don't even consider a SBC. This is my Chevy PU with a 241. I call it the poor mans Ardun. I am building another 241 to sell.

 

Never in your life will you spend so much money to go so slow would be my opinion on a baby Hemi but there is a cool factor to them.


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I had always heard the first part said about 4-bangers, but then the last few words ("but there is a cool factor to them") is where logic and practicality go out the window.....along with an ample amount of $$$$'s

Lynn

 

Not trying to hijack this thread but hoping to educate myself. What is a long tail vs a short tail hemi?

 

A "long tail" (made '51 thru early '54) has an extended block (kinda like a pre-49 flathead Ford) that enclosed the semi-automatic torque converter used in the earlier cars. A "short tail" was more conventional with a separate bell housing that bolted to the back of the block. This was a Chrysler only feature; all early Dodge and DeSoto hemi's were "short tails" and use the same adapter as the later Chrysler's.