Technical "Upgrading" for saftey vs. being period correct, why not both?

I like safety and reliability. Like the GM one wire alternator but it looks funny. Why I'm getting a generator for my build that has the guts of a alternator. Since I'm building a A, you'll never see the master cylinder with the dual chambers. One that really bugs me is aftermarket GM style tilt columns! Looks so wrong to me! I can understand it for some wanting a tilt. Just looks out of place to me. Each to thier own I guess.

 

There's so much truth to the above. I think it's missed on a lot of people who try to get the era or look right.

 

That used to be true here, but not anymore. When I first moved here, I had three parts houses within reasonable driving distance, two offered drum/rotor turning and the third one had a full machine shop. The latter one became much less desirable when a bridge washed out (and wasn't replaced) and instead of a 10 mile distance became 45 miles one way. The two remaining (both independents) had counter help that knew something, and if one didn't have it the other one did. All still had paper catalogs. Then a couple of the chain stores showed up, one of the independents went belly-up and the other associated with another chain. It went rapidly downhill from there. First the good counter help disappeared for the most part (the two chain stores didn't have any to start with, and still only have a couple that know anything), then computers arrived and the paper catalogs went away. Then they all reduced their parts inventory. It's been a rare occurrence that any of them have had whatever part I've needed, vintage or not. Then it became 'corporate policy' that phone orders wouldn't be accepted unless you had an active commercial account or pre-paid over the phone, which I did a few times until I got a couple of bogus charges that took time to sort out (and I wasn't the only one who had this happen...). So now it's drive to town (30 miles there and back) to order and pay for the part, then another 30 miles to go get it when it gets there, which could be anywhere from 1 to 3 days assuming they didn't screw it up. And God help you if you want a part for a car older than the cut-off year built into their computer system, then it turns into a real crapshoot...

The 'net has become my main choice by default, but it's not all roses there either. Difficult-to-navigate websites, sometimes incomplete information, unknown brands/vendors, and shipping times can all be issues. Returns are a PITA...

Part of it is my own fault; I used to hoard parts, it was rare that I couldn't find what I needed in my stash. But about 15 years ago I had totally run out of storage space, some of it had to go and I sold off a ton of stuff. I should have kept some of it...

 

I feel your pain Crazy Steve. My local O'Reilly and NAPA are helpful and have good desk guys. Awful Zone and Disadvanced Auto Farts turn me off! Couldn't find a Champion #25. The other two did.

 

I built my old Deuce sedan long before there was a traditional hot rod site so my car is not period correct, I don't spend time at shows with the hood up so my 350 engine ain't pre 65 nor is my alternator, but there is no aluminum radiator or electric fan.

I've always liked the older style builds, no ifs for me and I subscribe to the kiss method of hot rod building. HRP

 

I've got an O'Reillys, NAPA and Auto Zone in town. O'Reillys is the best of the lot in terms of stock-on-hand but I've had quality issues with some of it. They have three counter persons who aren't too bad; one's a gal, and she can make the computer do tricks I swear. Even if she has no idea what you're talking about, she can almost always get the computer to spit out the right part if they have it. NAPA used to be my go-to choice and has the best counter help, but this local store I swear carries nothing; they haven't had a single part (other than oil filters) I've wanted in stock for the last five years and they were the one with the credit-card screw ups. Auto Zone is the last, desperation choice....

 

The only old car parts your going to find around here are parts someone saved, and they think its worth gold. There are not nearly as many guys that still have a stash of saved parts these days either.

We only have 1 junk yard within 30 miles, and it pretty much just has whatever was drug off the streets in the last 2-3 years. Anything that might have been older went away when scrap was high a couple years ago, or sat in the low ground and has been flooded every year since it arrived. The yard that is 30 miles away is a pull a part and seldom does anything older then the 80s show up there, but if it does, they clear sections of the yard on a 90 day roll over.

Our local O'Rielly's used to be able to get a pretty wide variety of old car parts until a few months ago. Now the "company policy" won't let them order anything not listed on their selected inventory list ( according to the sales people). We have probably one on nearly every franchise auto parts store currently in operation in our town, they all pretty much stock the same parts, and none of them are HAMB friendly.

Building a period correct car around here would be very difficult, and then it wouldn't be much fun to drive with all the idiots around here. I've sacrificed one old ride to the idiots that drive around here and I was pretty lucky it wasn't period correct. I'm doing my best to not sacrifice another one, but I'm also going to do my best to help me and whomever is riding with me to survive, should my best not be good enough.

I'll keep my hood closed, and if you don't like the other stuff on my car, you don't have to look at it. Gene

 

I prefer anybody, who doesn't feel the need to upgrade their brakes, stay in front of me or don't follow any closer than a few hundred yards behind. I can't tell you how many times I'm glad to have disc brakes on my cars.

 

100% correct, I understand there are times you have no choice but to use modern parts, like racing and safety. I have to run a fuel cell, and some other parts that did exist in the 1950 or 1960 and I have to run a single carburetor to run with my club. So I went with a Clifford intake.

Outside of these parts every other part is going to be period correct, gauges, Mallory dual point, 48 Ford F-1 transmission, and early Ford juice brakes with vintage aluminum hubs and drums.

Some of my safety is going to be as period correct as I can make it. Our rules say we must run an aluminum racing seat.

So I will be running a Kirkey vintage race series seat and building a head rest just like they did back then.

 

If you have a good, well maintained handbrake, and take good care of your hydraulic system, the dual circuit master cylinder becomes irrelevant from a safety standpoint
So considering that, my biggest safety concern with my old cars is the steering column, and the lack of shoulder belts. A solid column of steel, bolted to the frame, aimed directly at my face or chest is just scary. And the thought of my face and chest being unrestrained to meet with them is also scary.
So my question is how do we incorporate a safe, collapsible steering column without it looking ugly and modern? And how do we put shoulder harnesses in our convertibles and roadsters?

 

If I were to die today would my last thoughts be how much of a poser I was for using a single wire alternator?
No...

 

Why risk it?

 

Funny, I was on a cruise in my 55 and hung back from the 32 in front of me for two reasons. Original drum brakes with single master and the 32's lack of tire covering. Then I looked behind me and saw Sid's 36 pickup way back. Asked him why and he said his brakes aren't that great (39 Ford juice brakes) so this is something people think about.

 

Starting these thread isn't a matter of being a poser or not it is simply a matter of showing a way to have an alternator and a dual master cylinder and still be period correct.

The theory of a dual master cylinder is great if one side fails you still have brakes.
However, I think there is a misconception that in a panic situation you can stop. I have had catastrophic brake failure on two modern cars with dual master cylinders.
The pedal still went all the way to the floor only by pumping the pedal was I able to stop. Now in a panic would I have had time to do this?

In the first case I was only a mile from school, so I limped the truck I was driving to the parking lot, but I had to stop at a light on a hill.
The pedal kept going to the floor and breaks wouldn't even hold the truck kept rolling back. I ended up riding the clutch to hold the hill.

Catastrophic failure very rarely happens without warning it is often the result of neglect, in both cases the signs where there wet around the rusty brake lines.
I always check these and all systems on my old cars.

 

Yep, oil changes are a great time to lube things up and inspect while letting the oil drip out.

 

Cause I don't care what anyone else thinks

 

I thought "period correctness" was something high school girls worried about.........sure seems to cause a lot of nervousness here too !

 

Personally I think it’s all BS. It’s the era you like not the date that the part was available. We just brought an old Drag/LSR car back to the street where it had not been since the early sixties and was purchased in 1974. It has a 57 Pontiac rear so it has 57 Pontiac drum brakes. It has 62 Corvette spindles so it has 62 Corvette drum brakes. It is a 40 Chevrolet so it has a 40 Chevrolet master cylinder. The rest is all race car. The engine is a GMC 6 and lucky to have Nicson cast iron headers, and a Howard 5-2 manifold with 3 carbs..... why because I had them and could buy them for $50. Same with the 60 mini alternator; it’s the spare of my sons race car.
Yeah it has OT Centerline front rims because that’s how we raced it.
After I listen to some guys make remarks that are not nice or even semi-kind I ask where’s yours? Let’s go!
The wonderful thing about American hot rodding that’s just that.

 

This really reminds me of reenacting. I did Rev War for a while a few years back (I know). The same argument was always going on. Some wanted to start fires only with flint, sleep on the ground or 7 to a pup tent and wear only wool or linen. Others stayed in a hotel and lit their cigarettes with a Bic. The "keep your hood shut" has an analogy to keeping your the tent door shut to hide your folding cot and Coleman bag. It took both kinds, and all in between, to fill the field. Unless you are being period judged, what's the difference? If you are at a car show and a passer by likes your car, except for the alternator and dual master, so what. You didn't build your car for the passer by. If you want a laptop in your tent and don't want the public to see it, keep your hood shut. Personally I've been in one too many accidents. I'll be using 3 single masters for clutch and brakes. Are balance bars PC? Don't know. To quote the reenactor, "if they had it, they would have used it". I'm going to find a way to mount a high brake light. I've been hit a few times where the idiot says to the police "I didn't even see him in that little car". Gee, if you did see me and ass-ended me anyhow, wouldn't you be a psychopath? I'll run a generator, they suck, but have never let me down. I'll run a 5 speed, if you can see it, more power to you. And, I can see a decent steering box. I want my car to look like a '50's rod, if counting stitches (or rivets) is your thing, you'll find exception with some of my choices. At least I have a hand sewn regimental, made from wool woven on 18th century looms and dyed with 18th century pigments. It is lined with linen and made from patterns taken from an original. Apparently, I care way less about stitch nazis now, than I did then. Mike

 

I like "vintage" stuff, as I don't really build for a period. I only have "old" cars and I like music, so most vehicles get a good system (I try to stay stock looking or a least vintage). I'll be the first to admit that my cars don't see the most regular maintenance as I build, drive, move onto the next build...so quality parts are a must. The good local parts places are gone around here only leaving big crappy chains. I'm on my 3rd '54 235 water pump in as many years and Napa is tapped out on lifetime replacement pumps ( I went with rock auto this time), also I'm on my 2nd "new" master cylinder for the '41 pickup from Napa.....see a trend?. I've used repo parts stores masters also in the past on other cars only to leak every other year. All cars run at the newest a 3 wire alt or a external regulated alt, generators are expensive to fix (price out a good old quality regulator) and don't like aftermarket radios and halogen sealed beams. As for 5 speed manuals (o/d), I personally think it's needed to not cause a problem at freeway speeds (being too slow) or at least have better gearing.....also to keep the best mpg I can get. I know that doesn't go over big here but if I keep costs down here and there then I can put more into other builds (or possibly other purchases). Lastly, I do use engines I have already, I do have a 322 and a few sbc (283, 327) but they're all the early evap blocks....so pre '67.

Btw, no old car junkyards around here at all, just online ads and eBay.

 

Robert, I understand what you're saying. I don't want or need a museum piece for what I do. I tend to like the "traditionally inspired" hot rod, because it is my daily driver.

I like multi-grade oil, 12 volts, pertronix ign., T-5, disc brakes, dual master cyl., radials, etc. As far as modern parts, I need to have something I can get relatively fast and inexpensive.

The other day I needed a new radiator and the only thing I could find was another aluminum one for under 200 bucks including shipping. I could have had one that was period correct, but the idea of 900+ bucks was a little over the top.

 

Build your car, the way that best suits your needs/desires/peace of mind.
We take chances everyday in our lives..where do you draw the line?
Safety is a common sense issues..how we interpret it on our Hot Rods is on an individual basis.
With respect to this sites beliefs/values, best to keep our mouths, err hoods shut when it comes to the modern day upgrades.

 

I'm going back to more visually correct on my 59 Vette, pulling out the aluminum headed 377", alternator, headers and aftermarket intake.
Installing the 327 with generator and cast iron intake and exhaust. She will look more correct, but still much quicker than the original 283.

 

I am.......

I, and many others don't........

The truth is that probably 99% of the builders here do not have cars that are completely period correct. Those that do post their cars have either acceptable exceptions or unseen modifications. You can run the originality stuff to the point of saying a builder should not only have period perfect parts, but to be truly original must also employ only the building techniques of the time period too. Those that want to feel empowered by staying as close to original as possible......I applaud them. Its just a shame that they don't get to see a lot of beautiful cars because of it.......


When were ceramic coated headers first available ?

 

I put a generator on my car. Had the case chrome plated because I like shiny stuff. The armature went in a puff of smoke. Replaced it with a chrome 1 wire alternator which cost less than plating my generator. If I find a good armature, I might put the generator back.

 

Actually when i was in high school (later '60s) I converted lots of Chebbys to the GM externally regulated alternator. One of the old guys I hung with said that his crowd did the conversion as soon as Chebby started using them.

Power brakes, I am not a fan of them but my '58 Road master had them as well as my '58 Merc. I got shoulder harness hanging in the shop (not safe at all way out of date) from an early post war Piper. Wouldn't cost much to have them re-webbed.

Here is an interesting thought. I worked on a deuce coupe when I worked at the Candy Store in '80 that was built in the late '50s early '60s that had dual jelly jar master cylinders. One brake peddle with a balance bar. one master for the rears and one for the fronts.

If you are one of the must have disc brakes Studebaker had discs on the Avanti on '64. They were twin pistons units not floaters. They can still be found, they were Bendix calipers.

I have a tendency to use what I have or can find in my budget. But I am not a purest. LOL

 

I have a '47 Ford pickup with a 392 Hemi and an iron pushbutton. It was "built" in the mid 60's by a friends father. When I first got it - it had original steering box and original rear axle as well. It stopped rather poorly which was an even bigger problem as I intended to tow my dragster with it. After rebuilding the drum brakes and still being disappointed with it I put discs on it. With years of abuse from the hemi the axle tapers were pretty rough and the keys beat up pretty bad. Given my intended use - I opted to put a 9" in it - the one I had was a tad wide so I narrowed it, shortening one axle on the bridgeport with an endmill. Backing a trailer down a skinny driveway simply sucked - probably made worse with my remedial backing skills - so I opted for power steering. Looked in my junkpile and found a suitable box and made an adapter plate to mount it. Next the column was cut and I made an adapter to mount it to the GM box. Lastly I needed a slip ring for the horn button to work again so I fabbed something up there using some copper water pipe. The truck also had cooling issues - I planned on getting the factory radiator re-cored (I had a race to go to and wasn't gonna make it on the old radiator as I would overheat on the freeway - it was fine around town but couldn't keep up over 50mph). I REALLY wanted to keep the original radiator but after being quoted $1250 to re-core it ($1400 for a high efficiency core) I said no thanks and reluctantly put an aluminum one in for a couple hundred. I kept the factory one - one day I'll find a competent rad shop that isn't looking to retire off one job and get it done, but until then it's what it is.
At one point the original builder had passed away. I took the old truck to the wake to pay my last respects. I ran into Carl's brother who immediately noticed the radiator. He said, "I see you fixed the overheating problem" I responded, "yes I did - I also added power steering." His eyes lit up, boy Carl would have loved that!!!
I have tried to update what I needed to to make the truck suit my purposes, but I've also tried to keep it looking exactly like it did when I got it. Have I been 100% successful in that? No, I've made some concessions. I also added some tail lights in the rolled edge of the truck bed (up high) - and NOT because I like them (because I DONT) but because people are idiots, idiots have cell phones, and idiots talk and text while they should be paying attention driving. Putting another set of brighter lights higher up is a concession I reluctantly made, because I hope to drive this thing for the rest of my life and avoid the idiots as much as practically possible. I'd like to think that Carl is "OK" with the changes I did to his truck and frankly I'd bet my last dollar he'd think IF I'm driving it and enjoying it THAT'S what REALLY matters. YMMV

 

@Ryan
@Moriarity
@straykatkustoms

I am a dues paying member of this web site. This is not the first time that I have received the "hint" that I need to go away. My build thread got deleted.

I am 74 years old (pre-Rat Fink and Angel Hair era). My car got the Koolest Kruizer award at the last Lead Ain't Dead show.

Any one have a suggestion for a web site for someone who customized an old Volvo in the early 1950's style? Something custom-rodder style, because my 1960's drive train has lots of performance improvements. And I have the "audacity" to modify my ride to safely drive multi-state trips on cruise control with the air conditioning running ("playing" my "Congestive Heart Failure Card").

Thank you, Russ