I figured part of hot rodding is adapting parts to help create more power. If anyone has tech or information on modifying their flathead 4, 6, or 8 to OHV, OHC, or DOHC and wish to share, post it here. I remember about 10 years ago there was a guy with a modern OHV head on a model T block. Has anyone else seen this? If so, anyone have pictures and tech info they wish to share? Sent from my SM-N960U using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
Ask Rich Fox, he’ll chime in here I’m sure. He has Y block head on a Dodge 4. I hear with very little work a certain early 70’s hemi-head Toyota will fit on a flathead Ford V8 but yet to see one.
Y block head on 32 Plymouth. 360 Dodge head on a 26 Dodge. The Dodge was well documented here on the HAMB. I think as Morton & Brett head. PM me if you want more info.
I've been going through what I need and took the plunge on a sohc 16 valve engine to strip for the T. The biggest thing is figuring out the adapter, namingly the thickness of the material. It has a dome shaped chamber on the head, so clearance should be okay at stock T. Any suggestions? Sent from my SM-N960U using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
Jim Culbert who owned CAE in his later years adapted the Pinto SOHC head to two or three Model T blocks. He had one running on the street in a T if I remember correctly or maybe it was a rod. It’s been a long time since I saw it.
I have heard about pinto and other lima engines being used for t's.... I was thinking about those rather seriously, and then this motor fell in my lap for $35 because he was wanting to do a swap, my gain. The 4 valves per cylinder is gonna help the t breathe rather well, and create a nice feature for the car. I am trying to figure out how thick I need to be with this head adapter, as the combustion chamber is domed, so valve interference shouldn't be an issue with a 1/2 inch aluminum adapter, but I am also concerned with strength. Sent from my SM-N960U using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
Hey, Leon; Research: Pete Ardemea . I posted some info n links on another OT forum, so if you want, I can PM you w/the info. Also, related, sorta; search for volvo 4valve head to ford 2000cc engine. I think. Might provide useful info. Marcus...
I talked to a couple of guys in regards to the information. One has been building up motors for almost 50 years. He told me to get a Rajo head gasket, and use the gasket of the head, trace one out in black, the other in red, and have a third color to mark areas where they are the same. Then use a piece of wood the similar thickness, drill the wood and fit it. Sent from my SM-N960U using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
I didn't find one that necessarily has the same bore spacing, an older gentleman told me he made the adapter to help with flow, like the chevy ohv adapter. Sent from my SM-N960U using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
I missed this thread; only saw it now because I did a search with a view to another thread, about taking it perhaps one step further i.e. building traditional-tech engines on the basis of modern engines. It's something I've sporadically wondered about. Hard parts are hard parts, and even if everyone knows that some of them didn't exist in 1964, for the most part they might as well have. It's the peripheral systems which give engines their "modern" character: the EFI, the distributorless ignition and coil packs, the plastic covers, etc. What scope is there for getting rid of all that? Ideally we'd want to engineer enclosed timing chain setups in place of timing belts in ugly plastic boxes. It was that which led to the researches I alluded to in the Specials thread this morning. I was wondering what it would take, what with chain tensioners and lubrication provisions — though improvements in the durability of timing belts open up the softer option of hiding them behind metal covers of suitable design. The Pontiac OHC six had such a cover as stock, as did the Honda GL1000 motorcycle and its derivatives. I was surprised to see die-cast timing belt covers on the VVT-i versions of the Toyota/Lexus UZ-series V8s, which might be amenable to being cut down, after we've junked the VVT-i, and converted into distributor mountings. Intake manifolds for multi-carb setups would have to be built from scratch; distributor drives would have to be rigged — though there workarounds might exist, like the aircraft-engine practice of running a Ford CVH distributor off the back of the right-hand cylinder head of a Subaru EJ22 for ignition redundancy. Another possible problem area is transmission compatibility, especially in the case of engines which were only originally available on computer-controlled automatics or front-wheel-drive transaxles. An engine-driven cooling fan should be easy enough, especially on a build with far fewer belt-driven ancillaries than the original application. Aesthetically, some paint in a well-considered colour might cover a multitude of sins, though many components will have that nasty texture like coarse-woven sacking, which would somehow need to be ground down and/or filled. The basic advantages of this are airflow, ease of availability (in some parts of the world, like mine), and in many cases weight savings. I can't think that multitudes would flock to this "backwards" technological approach, though I'm all over it, so perhaps it won't be all that unHAMBworthy?
As to the original topic — apologies for the tangent — a modern cylinder head often adapted to a traditional-era engine is the 1983-on BMW K-series "brick" motorcycle cylinder head on the BMC A-series engine, as found in the original Mini:
If one uses say an OHC honda motor, the distributor is based on the rear if the cam, which solves several issues as far as distributor, but the timing is going to be off as early ford bangers were 1243 and Hondas are 1342 I believe, so a cam might need to be made. An adapter plate would need to be made, but the 4 valves per cylinder and ohc would make efforts worth while in some way. As far as oil, a power steering pump could be utilized to circulate oil for the head, and cooling would not be much of an issue either. As far as covering the belts, aluminum sheet metal could be made and welded up... intake could be done with 4 motorcycle carbs and cut down intake runners, and exhaust could be easily made with a readily available header flange. Sent from my SM-N960U using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
The distributor doesn't care what order you put the wires on. Suzuki also used cam mounted distributors. Some with 90° drives. Mike
I had to make a 90 degree gearbox so my magneto would clear the crossflow head I put on my Ford six. ...but I digress.
Its the cam more than distributor... 1342 and 1243 would run, but not perform as well as it could. Sent from my SM-N960U using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
I think the cranks are the same for inline 4's with either 1 3 4 2 or 1 2 4 3 firing orders (1 & 4 @ TDC together and 2 & 3 @ TDC together). You just match the distributor cap's order to the cam's order. Mike
You're going to have to expand on why the performance would be different given the two different firing orders. Crankshaft throws are the same on the two different firing order engines.
I don't have pix but a friend put an ohc Pinto head on a Model T by making a billit aluminum spacer/adapter. I've seen it but it's been 20 +/- years ago and I don't remember how he spun the cam.
Was thinking about the firing order not long ago. On an il4 it won't make much difference, but the modern firing order might be smoother? Sent from my CPH1931 using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
Valves opening and closing from cam 1342 as well as firing order, which could be resolved with moving plug wires, and piston tdc 1243 would be off from my observation... making it not perform as efficiently and effectively as it could. Granted I could be wrong on this, but it does seem like it wouldn't be as efficient. However 4 valves per cylinder would help reduce the issue I'd imagine. Sent from my SM-N960U using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
@Leon Sandcastle think about it this way.....a four cylinder inline (actually any 4 cycle engine, regardless of cylinder count) is going to fire all cylinders in 720 degrees of crank rotation. So, each of the cylinders will be at top dead center twice in 720 degrees. The crank doesn’t ‘know’ what’s going on in the cylinder, only that it’s at tdc. Each cylinder tdc is equally spaced in terms of crank rotation degrees. So, however the cam is ground to sequence the valves in any given cylinder, so long as the spark arrives at the proper time......all is well. Ray
Modern SB Fords have similar issues with differing firing orders on base 302s, HO 302s and 351s. Cams will interchange. All you do is arrange the plug wires appropriately. ( The FO change was done to keep the #1 and #5 cylinders from firing consecutively, beating the snot out of the front main bearing insert.)
It's exactly the same, only backwards. 1342 = 3421 which is 1243 read from rear to front. The engine doesn't know which end the flywheel is on?
Like I said, I could be wrong. Thanks for the information! I have a 16 valve honda head I'm working on for my speedster build once I'm ready for something a bit more extreme. Right now I'm doing a more traditional build to try to see if it could qualify for trog. Sent from my SM-N960U using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
Could you imagine a Pontiac with quad cams? DOHC would be an awesome performer, dohc per head would make it mean as heck! Sent from my SM-N960U using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
The engine has two cams, but would not be considered a DOHC but rather an SOHC. A DOHC would have two cams per head.
The Jalopy Journal
