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Technical Odd FE Hedman headers. What u know about them?

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Norrland, Nov 24, 2020.

  1. Thanks for your 1st hand perspective!
     
    loudbang, Norrland, Deuces and 2 others like this.
  2. bowie
    Joined: Jul 27, 2011
    Posts: 3,098

    bowie
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    This is the Chevy version, just for context: F80394BA-F64B-4A2C-A3C5-B830CDBB99E9.jpeg C12E01BB-3915-4A82-9034-022CE06F3572.jpeg
     
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  3. Jeff Norwell
    Joined: Aug 20, 2003
    Posts: 14,811

    Jeff Norwell
    MODERATOR
    Staff Member










    Outstanding info and first hand knowledge.
     
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  4. bchctybob
    Joined: Sep 18, 2011
    Posts: 5,190

    bchctybob
    Member

    Thanks Jeff, that was a great time in my life, learning stuff everyday and working with some true hot rod legends. As a kid I was always fascinated by the crazy pipes on racers and hot rods, never thought I'd be building them for a living.
    Bowie, those are really cool, I'd love to have them. They are a good example of "Convenience Tri-Ys" built to look good and fit well. Normally the #5 and #7 cylinders are not paired since they fire sequentially. Pairing 1 and 5, 3 and 7 as they should be makes the header more bulky so it may not fit as many applications. Some of the other header manufacturers went so far as to cross over a couple pipes from one bank to the other to get optimal firing order pairing. Not Hedman. In their defense, I think it's been shown that equal length, sequential pairing and denting the primaries has almost no effect on normal street performance.
    In the name of performance and for display at the SEMA Show Bob Hedman asked me to build something special, so I built a set of 180 degree cross-over BBC boat headers that we actually sold fifty sets of IIRC. I wonder where they are now?
    Someone should start a vintage header thread Norrland and Bowie have a great start.
     
  5. Deuces
    Joined: Nov 3, 2009
    Posts: 23,757

    Deuces

    Are they still located here in Michigan????.....
     
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  6. bchctybob
    Joined: Sep 18, 2011
    Posts: 5,190

    bchctybob
    Member

    A search shows that the header part of Hedman Performance Group is now in Whittier, Ca. They were in Culver City, Ca. when I worked there.
     
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  7. GearheadsQCE
    Joined: Mar 23, 2011
    Posts: 3,375

    GearheadsQCE
    Alliance Vendor

    Deuces,
    Are you thinking if Kustom?
     
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  8. Thanx for your inputs in my tread. Its cool to get info from someone thats been involved with some of the makings.
     
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  9. 56sedandelivery
    Joined: Nov 21, 2006
    Posts: 6,695

    56sedandelivery
    Member Emeritus

    My high school (66-69) 56 Chevrolet had a cammed up 283 in it, along with a set of Hedman Hedders, only they were 4 tube headers connected in the "middle, similar to these headers; they were't the Tri-Y type these are. The gaskets were always blowing out at that connection, and since the connection was right at the frame level, they were a !@#$%^&* bear to change out. Who knows why they made them that way, when other brands were't? They came with the parts car I'd bought for the engine and 3 speed trans (a friends 57). I hated those headers!!! I can remember seeing J.C. Whitney supplied headers built the same way. I hated those headers!!! I am Butch/56sedandelivery.
     
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  10. Budget36
    Joined: Nov 29, 2014
    Posts: 13,174

    Budget36
    Member

    Now there’s some perspective! Great read!
    I recall a Headman header they advertised in the late ‘70s in HRM that had cones in the flanges for a inch or so into the primary’s, I forget the reason for it now, any recollection?
     
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  11. DDDenny
    Joined: Feb 6, 2015
    Posts: 19,144

    DDDenny
    Member
    from oregon

    I imagine the guy that set out to market the first set of commercially made "shorty" or "tight tuck" headers for the small block Chevy got inspiration from these headers.
     
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  12. 56sedandelivery
    Joined: Nov 21, 2006
    Posts: 6,695

    56sedandelivery
    Member Emeritus

    Anti reversion headers so the exhaust would't go back up the primary tube due to camshaft timing. I think it was just another gimmick of the time. I am Butch/56sedandelivery.
     
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  13. I had a set of those too back in the 70's and they sucked with the same issue as you Butch. I could not even sell them when I took them off so I gave them away.
     
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  14. bchctybob
    Joined: Sep 18, 2011
    Posts: 5,190

    bchctybob
    Member

    Butch and Warhorse; Yeah that middle flange could be quite a pain in itself. many that came back to us had the two center flanges welded together all the way around. (that made the header much harder to install or remove)
    The process for surfacing flanges back then was iffy at best; a poor minimum wage guy stood randomly holding the header by the tubes and pushing the flange against a big, fast moving, 6" wide, 2' long 36 grit horizontal belt sander. Yeah, not me man. Any flanges that came out flat were just plain luck. There were maybe two guys over the time I was there who actually understood what was needed and could do it right. Then they started building up the weld higher and grinding it to make O-ring like surfaces raised up from the flange surface and providing gaskets stamped from softer and thicker material. For the most part we didn't get that many complaints or returns compared to the number of sales. Honestly, headers from other manufacturers that I worked with were no better, sometimes worse. Hooker's (and Casler's) were the best. The change from stick welding to MIG cut the grinding belt life in half. We proposed a new machine with the grinding head on a pantograph style arm and clamping the header in a baseplate with the welds pointing up. The operator would set the depth of cut and pass the motor and stone from end to end, not approved. I think ultimately the number of complaints didn't justify the expense of the new machine at the time.
    During my time there I did every single job so I would know what the guys were up against. We made lots of changes to the processes over the years trying to improve the working conditions or the products or both but those monster belt sanders were still being used when I left. A side note; we built those huge sanders in house. I repaired them and built parts for them as part of my job, I even built complete new ones but they never ok'd an alternate design...??
     
  15. I have never seen this type of header before, but if Headman sold them with the GT bolt pattern, it would sure made a difference when working on the big block Comets and Fairlanes. I have a 335 hp 390, and there isn't much room when working under the hood.
    Bob
     
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  16. Thanks for posting your experience in the header business.
    Bob
     
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  17. The best headers for fit I have ever run, were Hookers, the worst, for fit and workmanship, were Doug Thorley headers on my BB Chevy. I had to do a considerable amount of massaging on the Thorley headers to stop them from leaking at the exhaust ports. I also had to massage some of the drilled holes. Once installed, they worked like any other headers.
    Bob
     
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  18. bchctybob
    Joined: Sep 18, 2011
    Posts: 5,190

    bchctybob
    Member

    By '67-69 Hedman sales were off because the 4 tube style of header was being touted in all of the magazines and Hedman needed to update their product line. They didn't update the FE castings because that style of header was being phased out.
    What hurts is, we received large numbers of returned unopened old stock from Sears and other big vendors as the old style was phased out of the catalogs. Each week trucks brought in those old headers and we opened the boxes, salvaged bolts, reducers, gaskets, etc and tossed those beautiful old headers into the big scrap bins. I saved about four sets of the classic HCH-1 SBC headers but that was it. If I had only known......
     
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  19. I said that about these.
    427 sohc.jpg
    I asked my local parts person about getting 5 Sets of the heads and intakes and 10 engines at the listed price. I do not need to tell you what he said.
     
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  20. Jeff Norwell
    Joined: Aug 20, 2003
    Posts: 14,811

    Jeff Norwell
    MODERATOR
    Staff Member

    Well.. all I know is the Headers that the OP shown are 1000x better that what Ford had on their early Fe configurations.Take note how the left manifold is squeezed at one end.... this was to get around the steering box and if a manual car.. the Z Bar set up.
    Of course If building an all out War Horse for racing.... I would never use the Hedman set up.....

    Great thread, very informative.

    *BTW... the first pic below is a re-pop of a log style Ford Manifold..... notice the casting numbers ground off?.... Made in China or India*

    59log.jpg 59logg.jpg
     
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  21. Jeff Norwell
    Joined: Aug 20, 2003
    Posts: 14,811

    Jeff Norwell
    MODERATOR
    Staff Member

    I do lust for a set of Ford factory 427 manifolds... but Ooooooo Mama.... a good set is now worth 2k-2500k

    unnamed.jpg
     
  22. Deuces
    Joined: Nov 3, 2009
    Posts: 23,757

    Deuces

    There's a header company located just off of I-75 heading north... I thought it was Headman Headers.... My bad!.... :(
     
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  23. bschwoeble
    Joined: Oct 20, 2008
    Posts: 1,016

    bschwoeble
    Member

    Thanks for the history lesson. The fuel "61" Corvette I bought in "67" had Hedmans that transitioned into the head pipe. No collector.
     
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  24. alphabet soup
    Joined: Jan 8, 2011
    Posts: 2,017

    alphabet soup
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    This is the best thread I have read in a while. Just sold these to a guy on here. I said they were Headmans...hope I was correct. They are a lot like a set I had for a 383 Mopar, that I let go on a station wagon I sold at Carlisle some years back. Gene. image000000 (2).jpg
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2020
  25. Beanscoot
    Joined: May 14, 2008
    Posts: 3,056

    Beanscoot
    Member

    Do they reproduce these?
    I wonder how many were thrown in the trash back when the cars were new.

    [​IMG]
     
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  26. Hope i have the time to remove my headers from the engine this weekend so i can show what condition they are now and how they look when in finished with them. If u want to see them that is?
     
  27. YES!
     
  28. bchctybob
    Joined: Sep 18, 2011
    Posts: 5,190

    bchctybob
    Member

    Yep, they are Hedmans. they were made towards the end of production for that model. The head flange is the give-away. Those are the stamped flanges that replaced the labor intensive in-house machined versions. The ones in the pictures Bowie posted are the earlier style, note that they are just straight 1/4 x 2 plate and the later versions have a profile along the bottom edge to clear the temp sender in later heads.
    When I had my shop I had several people come to me with rusty old Hedmans and ask if they could be repaired or reproduced. One set was a Pontiac application that I had never seen before. I built a quicky fixture on my welding bench and made new ones for them. Rewarding work. Great to see that folks liked them enough to want a brand new set.
     
  29. bchctybob
    Joined: Sep 18, 2011
    Posts: 5,190

    bchctybob
    Member

    If you do take them off, be sure to post a few pictures, assembled and disassembled. You don't see those everyday!
     
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  30. Not that I am aware of but I saw a set at the Columbus spring swap a few years ago sell for $4000. Weight would be the drawback in a reproduction for any reputable manufacturer but china will reproduce anything so you never know.
     
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