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Projects 1939 Ford Convertible Sedan Resurrection

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by The 39 guy, Sep 6, 2020.

  1. That curve is about what mine is like.
     
  2. A wealthy guy's big deal tub
    [​IMG]
    A cool tub no comparison, cool is cool
    [​IMG]
     
    stanlow69 and kidcampbell71 like this.
  3. The 39 guy
    Joined: Nov 5, 2010
    Posts: 3,524

    The 39 guy
    Member

    I don't know what to comment to this John. I like both cars. Both styles appeal to me. The matter of how much is spent on the car is irrelevant to me. Both cars (styles) would not be obtainable to me if I was not willing and able to build the car myself. I accept that not all rodders are builders and that they have other talented people build their dream car.. My car will be built similar to Bob Bojorques's style but that doesn't mean I will not change the stance and put some skirts on it in the future.
     
  4. The 39 guy
    Joined: Nov 5, 2010
    Posts: 3,524

    The 39 guy
    Member

    Thanks for taking a look X38. Still hoping to hear form some other sedan owners to see if this is consistent.
     
  5. The37Kid
    Joined: Apr 30, 2004
    Posts: 30,628

    The37Kid
    Member

    [​IMG]

    Great looking car and the owners net worth has NOTHING to do with its appeal, nor should it matter to anyone. Bob
     
  6. The 39 guy
    Joined: Nov 5, 2010
    Posts: 3,524

    The 39 guy
    Member

    Well I can agree with that Bob!

    This week we have been working on the toolbox. I call this toolbox 2.0 since my first toolbox looked good but did not fit. I should have waited until these corners and new tail pan were installed. Well all of the effort was not lost as I learned some things while building Tool Box 1.0.

    IMG_5306R.jpg
    We started out by making some supports that attach to the inner fenderwells and
    will support the sides of the tool box.Shown here is a trick I learned on the HAMB.
    If you leave a piece like this pie cut piece of metal here the extra metal acts as a heat sink
    during the welding process.

    IMG_5302R.jpg
    The shrinker stretcher was useful for parts of this but cutting and welding were required
    for the areas we eventually welded.
    IMG_5329R.jpg
    The supports shown here a little out of sequence to the project at hand

    IMG_5330R.jpg

    IMG_5303R.jpg
    We started out making cardboard templates for the corners of the tool box.
    IMG_5304R.jpg
    Those side brackets shown at the beginning of this post are attached to the quarter
    panel and supporting this corner piece. the steel piece the torpedo level is on in this
    picture will be replaced with a flat piece which is the reason for the spacers I will show
    later in this post.
    IMG_5307R.jpg
    Transferred the pattern to some 16 gauge.
    IMG_5310R.jpg
    The sides had to split the tailpan to body interface.
    IMG_5311R.jpg
    Like everything else on these cars nothing was at 90 degree angles so the compound shape
    had to be carefully bent to match. Not an easy thing to do in 16 gauge. The HF Break
    we have is able to bend these small sections 16 gauge.

    IMG_5314R.jpg
    After several trips between the sanders and benders we had a good fit.
    IMG_5317R.jpg


    IMG_5316R.jpg
    When I bought the steel sheet I had them bend the 90 in one end of the sheet. I think
    it cost me 30 bucks for the bend and one cut on the 4x8 sheet. It was worth it to have
    a nice 90 end to start with.
    IMG_5318R.jpg

    The bottom piece was cut in a curve matching the tail pans curve pretty close.

    IMG_5320R.jpg
    Test fitting
    IMG_5321R.jpg
    Welding on the bench
    IMG_5322R.jpg
    I welded both sides of the joint and metal finished the underside.
    IMG_5323R.jpg
    Holes are predrilled for for plug welds
    IMG_5326R.jpg
    We changed up the design a little from 1.0
    IMG_5327R.jpg
    I found some 1x1 1/2" tube it's a little thinner than I wanted so I made some end caps
    for extra strength.
    IMG_5328R.jpg
    Welded them on and should also help keep the spacer keep from collecting dirt in the
    open space.
    IMG_5331R.jpg
    They go here . We hope to weld the pan in tomorrow so I hopefully will be posting
    the rest of this project soon.
     
  7. jim snow
    Joined: Feb 16, 2007
    Posts: 1,807

    jim snow
    Member

    Good stuff. I have been following along. You have a ton of work on this. Thanks for taking us along. Snowman
     
    The 39 guy likes this.
  8. Oilguy
    Joined: Jun 28, 2011
    Posts: 663

    Oilguy
    Member

    Enjoyed seeing the fab work. Wish I had those skills. Great thread.
     
    The 39 guy likes this.
  9. Seeing this thread for the first time. Quite the project and very inspiring. While the project seems (and is) big, thanks for helping us watch along that breaking it down step at a time and keep chipping away brings progress. As slow as it seems, there sure is a big difference from where you started and where you are now already. Looking forward to seeing this come together
     
    stanlow69 likes this.
  10. Like drdave, I am just seeing this thread for the first time. I'm excited to watch and learn, Sam!
     
  11. If you ever get to Georgia, go down to Warm Springs and tour the Little White House, FDR's vacation home where he died. They have FDR's '38 Ford convertible sedan on display. It is an amazing car, unrestored original, fitted with hand controls so FDR could drive it. Roosevelt was paralyzed from the waist down, yet he was able to drive a car with a manual transmission and mechanical brakes. The brakes were the easy part, just use the parking brake--the one good thing about old Ford mechanical brakes is that the parking brake applies the brakes on all 4 wheels.
     
    Atwater Mike and chryslerfan55 like this.
  12. The 39 guy
    Joined: Nov 5, 2010
    Posts: 3,524

    The 39 guy
    Member

    Thanks hope you enjoy the journey , we are.

    Thanks, I think the fab work is my favorite part of a build. I guess that is why I show so much of it.

    Yes there is a lot of projects to do on this car. I have the big picture in mind but try to concentrate on one small project at a time so as not to be overwhelmed by the enormity of it. We try to get at least one little thing done everyday and it adds up. Taking time to look at the finished or should I say semi finished projects helps keep us inspired also. Thanks for following along.

    Welcome aboard Brett have fun watching.

    I am aware of FDR's tub. I have seen pictures of him behind the wheel. Gotta wonder how he worked the clutch. I always thought the car was kept in the North East though.

    Lets get back to the toolbox.
    IMG_5333R.jpg
    In place of the top piece that had a 1 inch drop we decided to make a flat top piece.
    We ran the ends through the bead roller to offset the flange below the end pieces
    of the tool box. The 3 holes are for plug welds.
    IMG_5338R.jpg
    Those offsets in the top piece allowed us to weld the top plate flush with the end
    pieces . This 4 foot level allowed us keep the very flexible 16 gauge 3 inch wide piece
    flat for fitment and welding.
    IMG_5339R.jpg
    Just another view. You can never have too many clamps!
    IMG_5341R.jpg
    At this point I had applied several hundred spot welds over a few hours on the back side
    of this top piece. You can see the penetration of the welds. You can also see the offset
    in the top at the interface.
    IMG_5342R.jpg
    I spent an evening out the shop doing all of theses welds. I think it was around 1 AM
    when I finished. I had to do other projects in between each run of about 12 spot welds.
    I allowed the steel to cool to touch to try to keep the metal from warping from heat.
    It worked!
    IMG_5345R.jpg
    The bottom weld was not metal finished.
    IMG_5347R.jpg
    The top weld was metal finished as shown here. I really like this new welding bench.
    IMG_5348R.jpg
    We made up some tabs that will help support what I call the back valance. We will wait
    to weld this valance on until we are sure we do not have to take the floor out for the wheel
    tub project.
    IMG_5350R.jpg
    After several test fits and adjustments. (welding does change things in strange places.)
    the toolbox was welded in. The trunk latch support fits great. We won't weld it in yet.
    IMG_5352R.jpg
    You can see the plug welds along the tail pan here. The holes were drilled to 5/16 inch.
    IMG_5354R.jpg
    The flanges that attach to the tail pan required just a few hammer blows to tighten them
    up tail pan.
    IMG_5356R.jpg
    Bottom view
    IMG_5357R.jpg
    You can see that there is plenty of clearance between the tool box and the frame.
    You can also see the unfinished bottom of the body corner we installed last week.
    We will finish that feature when we get the body on the rotisserie.
    IMG_4872R.jpg
    Here are some views of the tool box we replaced
    IMG_9746R - Copy.jpg
    IMG_9748R - Copy.jpg
    We still have to modify and install these supports. Just another project
    to look forward to.
     
  13. Nice job. Gotta be satisfying.:)
     
  14. dsmith6
    Joined: Mar 12, 2009
    Posts: 20

    dsmith6
    Member

    Amazing work. Thanks for saving another vintage car that was not possible for most. Following
     
  15. Enjoying your progress/build..thanks for bringing us along.
     
  16. downlojoe33
    Joined: Jul 25, 2013
    Posts: 669

    downlojoe33
    Member

    Amazing shop, skills to be envious of, and one of Henry's finest body styles to start with! I'm a follower.
     
    chryslerfan55 likes this.
  17. The 39 guy
    Joined: Nov 5, 2010
    Posts: 3,524

    The 39 guy
    Member

    Thank you all for following along!


    Just enough time for a quick post tonight.
    IMG_5409R.jpg
    All of my fender capture nuts were missing on this body. I bought these #3145-C 5/16 x 24
    cage nuts from Bob Drake. They look to be much sturdier than the original Ford cages.
    The scissors are pointing to flange that protrudes through the body. This required me to
    drill the hole in the body out a little larger to accommodate the flange. I kind of like the
    flange because it helps to center the nut assembly during installation. I also had
    to sand the flange down a little because it stuck out too far into the hole which may have
    made it difficult to mount the fenders later on. They also come without holes for plug
    welds I used to secure them to the body, so I had to drill those out to about 5/16"
    IMG_5407R.jpg
    They are simple to install. I just ran a 5/16 x28 bolt with a washer and a second nut
    used to limit the depth of the bolt on the nut ( to prevent getting any weld berrys on
    the bolt) Tighten it up and do a plug weld.
    IMG_5406R.jpg
    IMG_5434R.jpg
    I will be doing some more of these later I only went as far as the back seat support so far. Most of the metal that supports the fender forward of that support will be replaced soon and then I can install the rest of the capture nuts.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Dec 6, 2020
  18. The 39 guy
    Joined: Nov 5, 2010
    Posts: 3,524

    The 39 guy
    Member

    IMG_5358R.jpg
    I always like looking through the shop window on the way in. It's kind of snap shot of
    progress each day.

    IMG_5360R.jpg
    So here we go on the top seal rail . As shown before it was riddled with bronze and small
    patches of steel strip with a lot of rust holes in between.
    IMG_4842R.jpg




    IMG_4843R.jpg
    IMG_4839R.jpg
    You can see below that we tried grinding some of the brass away to see if we could
    live with that and just bondo and paint it. That is just not the way I like to do things
    so all of this junk was eventually cut out and replaced in small sections.
    IMG_5379R.jpg

    IMG_5360R.jpg

    IMG_5361R.jpg
    Typically we cut the old metal out to within about 3/16 inch from the 90 degree bend.
    This was done to allow for a nice clean edge after welding.
    IMG_5362R.jpg
    A simple 90 degree bend was made and then bent to the compound contour of the body.
    IMG_5364R.jpg
    Note we left that piece of metal that supports the bottom of the channel. I had to use
    the copper in several places during the welding process. It was used as a support and
    a heat sink.

    IMG_5365R.jpg
    Since we welded in just a 90 degree bend we were able to finish the first weld before
    Welding on the second 90.
    IMG_5366R.jpg
    Second 90 degree segment clamped for welding.
    IMG_5367R.jpg
    5 1/6 holes were drilled for plug welds on the bottom side of this flange.
    IMG_5368R.jpg
    This old man has to be comfortable to weld while on his back so this simple platform
    was rigged up. Worked great . I had it in and out of there several times during this project.
    IMG_5370R.jpg
    Plug welds
    IMG_5378R.jpg
    So we thought we should look into how the seal fits in this channel before we got to
    far into the project. This is Steel Rubber products soft rubber seal # 83-0100-73 (15 foot length)
    sitting on the top tacking strip. This looks like the one we will be using on the car.

    IMG_5380R.jpg
    This is the 39-40 seal that Bob Drake sells. It is part no. 78-713540. It fits good on the top
    rail but I don't like the way it squishes out on the side rails. So we are going to try the
    Steele Rubber Products seal.
    IMG_5381R.jpg
    Both of theses seals are available in bulk. I have two bulk packages of this Drake seal
    if someone wants one let me know.
    IMG_5382R.jpg
    I bought his HF punch tool. It works well on this skinny piece but punches to close to the edge
    for some wider pieces.
    IMG_5383R.jpg
    We sprung for a new set of shrinker stretchers from Eastwood for this project. Don is
    quite happy to not have to constantly change out the dies all of the time as he had to when
    using the old single head unit we were using. We made a stand for this one also so we
    don't have to keep putting the units in and out of the bench vise.
    IMG_5384R.jpg
    For this center section we just replaced the back of the seal. You never have too many clamps.
    IMG_5385R.jpg
    This section was plug welded from the bottom
    IMG_5395R.jpg
    We are still struggling with compound curves. We have use this technique before to get
    around a very tight bend. Too much welding required to finish it though.
    IMG_5396R.jpg
    So we decided to just cut the bottom out. When we were satisfied with the curve we would
    make a flat bottom piece and weld it in.
    IMG_5398R.jpg
    Welding and finishing this piece at the bench allowed for easy access and clean results
    which we would have had trouble doing on the car.
    IMG_5400R.jpg

    IMG_5401R.jpg
    The drivers side corner was the longest one we did.

    IMG_5402R.jpg
    That weld took a long time to do. Not pretty but will finish out well.
    IMG_5404R.jpg
    That's all of the pics I could do on this post. More later.
     

    Attached Files:

  19. The 39 guy
    Joined: Nov 5, 2010
    Posts: 3,524

    The 39 guy
    Member

    Just finishing up the previous post on the trunk top seal.
    IMG_5414R.jpg

    IMG_5415R.jpg

    IMG_5416R.jpg
    The piece that runs across the top of the trunk is welded on pretty crudely at the factory
    and required a lot of led and bondo finish it off. We had to get rid of the lead and bondo
    to make these repairs. I expect to be challenged by this section when we get around to the
    body work phase.
    IMG_5417R.jpg
    The seal lip makes a transition from straight what i call 180 degree position as it descends
    down the side of the trunk. We are happy with the results on this seal area so far. We do need
    to rebuild the bottom corners of this seal rail but we have to get the trunk lid ready first.
    That's the next project.
     
    Crusty Chevy, hfh, Dean Lowe and 9 others like this.
  20. The 39 guy
    Joined: Nov 5, 2010
    Posts: 3,524

    The 39 guy
    Member

    This week we worked on The bottom of the trunk lid.
    IMG_5397R.jpg
    Trying to work on this lid is like trying to do surgery on a turtle while it's on it's back
    so I jigged it up and clamped it to the welding table.
    IMG_5389R.jpg
    Here is the starting point. I found it interesting that the inner structure was rotted away
    but the skin was actually pretty sound.
    IMG_5390R.jpg

    IMG_5391R.jpg

    IMG_5394R.jpg
    We started with the long pieces first. Were able to just slightly bend the outer skin folded
    flange up just a little bit to release what was left of the inner skin under the flange. This
    allowed me to gently hammer the damaged material out of the slot.
    IMG_5425R.jpg
    The dremel and several other picking tools were used to clean the remains of the rusty
    metal left under the flange.
    IMG_5427R.jpg
    Eastwood rust converter was applied to seal the remaining rust in this area.
    IMG_5428R.jpg
    The converter turns the rust black.We left the center structure in place to support
    the inner structure.
    IMG_5430R.jpg
    The patches were bent from 18 ga. metal. Like all of the body pieces so far that look
    kind of flat when you first look at them but all require some tweaking on the shrinker
    stretcher.
    IMG_5418R.jpg
    It was time to get these corners out of the way so we could slide those new pieces and
    the dremmel tool into the slot.
    IMG_5419R.jpg
    I am not a fan of Fords square (sharp) trunk corners so I marked a gentle curve off
    with a french curve gizmo and started cutting.
    IMG_5422R.jpg
    IMG_5423R.jpg
    As you can see it is not much of a cut.
    IMG_5432R.jpg
    That left a nice opening for the tools and parts to be slid through.
    IMG_5435R.jpg
    I put a sheet metal screw into the corner piece so I could pull this piece into place for
    trial fits and clamping.
    IMG_5437R.jpg

    IMG_5439R.jpg IMG_5442R.jpg
    This corners had to be made from three pieces.Don used a plannishing hammer to shape
    this corner.
    IMG_5443R.jpg
    This is how I bent the flange back down. I used the copper to keep from dinging up the
    outer skin. Hammer and dolly just seemed to bounce off of the flange without closing the
    gap.
    IMG_5387R.jpg
    They PO must of had a lot of trouble getting the old latch out of the trunk lid judging by
    the damage here. I decided the best way to fix it was to cut it out reshape it on the bench
    and weld it back in.
    IMG_5446R.jpg
    Latch area repaired. I discovered that I did not have a latch for this trunk lid recently.
    I think I have a stock latch coming from Alaska soon for a replacement though.
    You can see new piece cut and fit below the latch here too.
    IMG_5449R.jpg

    IMG_5447R.jpg
    Lots of clamps as usual. This piece was added to mimic the folded over outer skin.
    IMG_5453R.jpg

    IMG_5452R.jpg
    Just some of the tools used to do this project.
    IMG_5455R.jpg

    IMG_5456R.jpg
    All cleaned up and ready for a skim coat of filler. This project went pretty well. It took the
    better part of a week but worth the effort.
    Now we get to mount the trunk lid back on the car and form the bottom corners of tail pan.
     

    Attached Files:

  21. nor6304
    Joined: Aug 23, 2009
    Posts: 388

    nor6304
    Member
    from Indiana

    Really nice work Looks great
     
    The 39 guy likes this.
  22. Nice work a usual. It's curious we are both working in the same area at the moment.
     
    kidcampbell71 and The 39 guy like this.
  23. The 39 guy
    Joined: Nov 5, 2010
    Posts: 3,524

    The 39 guy
    Member

    Thanks nor6304, Looks like not too many folks looked at this post or didn't find it interesting. We had a lot of fun doing it and were pretty pleased with the results.

    Thanks X38 , it was fun, I hope you show us your methods and results on your build thread.

    We didn't get much done the last couple of days. One of my buddies had his Forty that he just bought in California dropped off here for winter storage. So we had to move some things around and play with the new car a little before getting back on the project.

    IMG_5475R.jpg
    She's kind OT for this forum so this is all I can show you of my new room mate. She is
    sitting right behind me as type this. It will probably be here until May or June of 2021.
    Too bad there is snow and deicer on the roads. Can't play with it much but it is fun to
    look at. Do you think it's low enough? No it is not on air ride.

    After showing the Forty to all my neighbors that saw it dropped off yesterday we had a
    a little time to install the trunk lid on the car and start the next project.

    IMG_5471R.jpg
    We got the lid lined up pretty good.
    IMG_5473R - Copy.jpg
    You can see the gap left by rounding off the corner and the incomplete and what think
    was incorrectly formed EMS tail pan.
    IMG_5474R.jpg
    I applied some masking tape to keep the sheet metal kind of clean and then applied some
    modeling clay . After a few minutes of carving I was pretty happy with the shape and
    confident that we can cut and shape some sheet metal to duplicate this shape. Not sure
    yet how we will copy this contour but I think I will start with making some cardboard
    templates. That's it for today. Thanks for watching.
     
  24. The37Kid
    Joined: Apr 30, 2004
    Posts: 30,628

    The37Kid
    Member

    Thanks for posting all the detailed photos, sure looks nice. The use of modeling clay is a neat idea I've never seen before. The radiused corners are much more subtle that I thought they were going to be. There is a large area up to with what looks like factory lead. Will you be using lead when you get back to finishing that area? Bob
     
    kidcampbell71 likes this.
  25. Great work @The 39 guy. Your thread was one of the threads that encouraged me to start one for my project. These old soft tops require a bunch of very similar work and effort. You're rocking it!
     
    chryslerfan55 likes this.
  26. 4 pedals
    Joined: Oct 8, 2009
    Posts: 958

    4 pedals
    Member
    from Nor Cal

    What a tremendous amount of metal work! Vey impressive!

    Devin
     
  27. cjtwigt
    Joined: Dec 23, 2017
    Posts: 148

    cjtwigt
    Member

    Great work and photo’s. Thank you!

    I think that tail pan was made for a sedan.
    Here is a picture of mine (yes I plan to replace it..)

    [​IMG]


    Sent from my iPhone using H.A.M.B.
     
    chryslerfan55 likes this.
  28. The 39 guy
    Joined: Nov 5, 2010
    Posts: 3,524

    The 39 guy
    Member

    Thanks The37Kid . This is the first time I have tried the modeling clay. I need to work with it some more this afternoon before making templates. I think it really going to help us finalize the plan for the corners. As to the lead in the top corners. We have discussed cutting some of that metal up there and reshaping something it similar to what anothercarguy did on his 38. BTW if you haven't checked out his new thread I suggest yo do. He is doing some really nice repair and modifications to his 38. We will not be using lead so we want to get all body work to a point that we can apply a skim coat of bondo if we can.

    Thank yo anothercarguy! I just found your thread this morning and read all of the way through it. I hope to respond to your thread this evening with lots of compliments comments and questions.

    Thanks 4 pedals! It is a lot of metal work, but most of it fun.

    Hi Chris, yes the pan we bought from EMS was for a sedan. We checked the contour of the EMS pan to the bottom of a regular sedan trunk lid I have here and confirmed that the new pan did not match that standard trunk lids contour either. I had hoped for a better fit but that's the way it goes with reproduction parts most of the time. They all seem to require a little tweaking (adjustment) to fit our old cars. I am just glad they make something that is new metal that we can work with. If yours isn't too rusty you might be better off just fixing the seal flange and body working the dents.
     
    chryslerfan55 and Hamtown Al like this.
  29. The37Kid
    Joined: Apr 30, 2004
    Posts: 30,628

    The37Kid
    Member

    [​IMG]

    When the lid is open will the rounded corners do less damage to foreheads?:rolleyes:

    Bob
     
  30. The 39 guy
    Joined: Nov 5, 2010
    Posts: 3,524

    The 39 guy
    Member

    As mentioned in the text of the post ( I think I did anyway) yes , that is the reason for the modification Bob. We have already had too many close calls with those corners. Hopefully we will only get a dent or bruise from hitting the rounded corner :) . Besides I think it will look better and now I can say it's a Kustom, I think?
     

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