Over the past few months I've been doing salt fog testing with hopes of combating salt corrosion.. I spoke to a number of industry experts and lab people that I've known over the years. The 3 coat polyurethane system it is still one of the most anti-corrosive systems there is but it will eventually will fail after a few years service in salt. It seems rinsing the salt off will extend the service life of the system. I recently did in salt fog test and when the test was over there with remnants of paints on the panels. 3 weeks later I looked at those panels again and they were solid rust. I had not bothered to rinse those panels off after the test. The salt just keeps on working.A underbody wash is a good investment during the winter months.
I like salt on my food, not so much on my rides! Thank goodness they don't use it around here, but maybe once or twice a year they will use that calcium chloride stuff that is 10X worse than salt, it's almost impossible to wash off! It's designed to draw moisture, which it does, too well. If you don't get it off, it will sit in cracks and crevices and draw moisture from the air, keeping metal wet and causing rust. It will also wick into unprotected wiring, destroying it.
I believe you will find that magnesium chloride is what's being used today where they don't use beet juice. It will ruin a paint job in no time at all.
I like to put my lawn sprinkler under my car once or twice during the winter to give everything a good rinse. Our winters are not very harsh, more rain than snow but they do spray a brine solution on the roads when it gets close to freezing (pick your preferred measurement unit here...).
North Jersey and upstate New York are among the worst areas.North Jersey is all hills and curves and they both use both brine and road salt continuously all winter long. Your vehicle is a salt spray chamber. This is the reason the back is usually more rusted than the front I learned that over the years that an ounce of prevention is easier than a pound of cure.
In MN they bless us w/both calcium chloride & magnesium chloride. For 10->15+ yrs now. Lucky us. That shit eats everything. Does in steel, stainless, cast iron, a lot of aluminum, die-cast, seen some plastics get rough/corroded-like, doesn't do rubber compounds much good, even powder coat will get damaged. Oh ya... asphalt n concrete, too... . Miserable STATE... ;( . Pat, iffen you can compound something that shrugs that off... , ! Marcus...
thanks for doing your effort to do some tests. it seems to me that there must be products we can't buy. they paint ocean going ships and bridges and they hold up better than your new car. just tonight i took a seat bracket off a 27 ford roadster, the top was rotten, rivet holes rusted out around the rivet, and yet the bottom is nice black paint that would buff out. years ago a ship yard in duluth mn had epoxy primer for sale that was some kinda surplus deal, frozen/out dated, i dont know, but it was 20 bucks per 5 gallon pail, so 40 for part A&B. i figured if its good for a ship, its good enough for me. at the time, i built a 22' roll back truck and used that for the primer. i started with an old rusty flatbed, then sand blast job from hell, and then prime and paint the 22' deck. had the truck 15 years, never washed it, and it never rusted where it hadnt been scratched. heavy salt use in minnesota where it lived. why cant we buy that stuff?
Michigan is in the rust belt. Rule of thumb is the rust evidence starts showing up in 6 years. 20 year old trucks with rusted out broken frames. Brake lines first to go, gas tank straps and exhaust systems. Comical to see mufflers laying along side the road by the railroad crossings. Rumor also has it the auto manufactures subsidize salt sales to peddle new cars. Suspension mounting points also like to rust out, dangerous, and Mich was talking about raising the speed limit to 80mph. Undercoating used to be popular but it would develop areas that would come loose and trap the chemicals and make rust out worse. Many car washes now have a feature where they wash the underside. They have unlimited car wash plans so you can run the car through the wash daily. Have also seen people spray the underside with drain oil (chain saw bar oil also good for underside). Before the snow flies, after spraying with oil, drive down a dusty dirt road to help the oil have something to cling to. Get a 'winter beater' to sacrifice to the salt gods. The sprinkler suggestion above makes good sense. A Bonneville racer with a 32 Ford recommended the sprinkler treatment, said to not use a pressure washer because it forces the salt deep into crevices.
i used to spray a mix of 90w, and diesel fuel inside doors and rockers. it about doubles the life of a car in the swamp. i also have heard that ford motor co, when they used to be here in st paul mn. would buy the salt for the state.
Just mix up a bucket of soap and water and wash the salt off!!!! The best part washing a car is period correct!
Lanolin based rust protection. Designed in the 40’s. Thin material stays somewhat wet. Creeps into every crevice. And when sprayed it turns into a fog that creeps into panels. Great for northern climates. This stuff works. https://www.fluid-film.com/ FLUID FILM BLACK is a penetrant and lubricant also used for corrosion prevention. It is a non-toxic, long lasting, thixotropic liquid that has been used for over fifty years in the highly corrosive marine environment of ships and offshore drilling rigs. More recently they have been introduced and successfully utilized in the Automotive and snow handling industries as a vehicle undercoating. The wet barrier creeps and migrates into tight seams and into the metal chassis to provide corrosion protection from salts and brines. The addition of FLUID FILM BLACK allows customers to protect their vehicle while restoring a rich black color to the chassis or cover existing rust.
Thanks for the link. This stuff looks worthy of further investigation. And it seems to be readily available in manageable quantities.
I enjoy doing tests.The primer you're probably referring to is a zinc rich epoxy that was used in severe corrosive environments. I'm working on a formulation now for such a coating with a slight improvement. The most salt resistant system is 2 coats of the aluminum pigmented permanent rust sealer primer followed by a full polyester color coat. In extreme environments along the ocean 2 coats of the moisture cured primer followed by an epoxy intermediate coat for adhesion and then a topcoat. This type of system will run around 15,000 hours of salt spray give or take. I have a 1999 Ford van every year I would dump rust remover/metal prep down all the seems were the floor met the body and the wheel arches. Everything is still intact ,access was easy because it is a cargo van Most of the coatings I have tested recently did less than 700 hours before they failed. An effective soap for neutralizing salt residue is dishwashing soap used in a electric dishwasher
Hello, Having grown up on or near the ocean, we had our share of salt water influences. Whether it was getting caught in a flat beach side parking lot when the waves and tides came rolling in and under the cars, or just going surfing at the miles of coastal surf spots during our time. We have seen old cars not in good shape. It is obvious that salt spray, water or where ever the salt comes from, will damage the underneath surfaces of the cars. After getting the 1958 Impala coated with a professional spray undercoating, we kept the sedan from 57 to 64 without one bit of rust on any surface. We were meticulous about a clean car and when we did run into unforeseen circumstances at the beach, on the way home, it was hose the surfaces off with clean water. (high power spray car wash hoses worked the best) But, it wasn’t just the underneath surfaces, we were always using a bent pick to clean out the door weep holes and body weep holes to keep them clear of debris. Water of any kind needs a place to escape and that is why those weep holes need to be kept clean. The combination of doing just that one thing and hosing off the salt affected surfaces kept the 58 Impala pristine and salt rust free. Being as fanatic as we were, when a long distance cruise to Laguna Beach’s 1000 Steps beach was on the schedule for a Friday night, undoubtedly, salt air, via fog or mist was in the air. The car’s constant Blue Coral, then Classic Car Wax did the job of having the mist run off. But, later, after dropping off the passenger, it was head to the “spray wash hose” place near our house, for a thorough rinse and dry. Jnaki When I sold the Impala in 1964, there was no rust anywhere. It was the same thing for our new 65 El Camino. The same week it rolled into our driveway. It was up to Los Angeles to get the same professional undercoating spray everywhere. For 125k miles of various surface driving, it held up in the battle against the salt corrosion. The El Camino got caught several times in the high tide parking lot water incursion and the resulting drive through the salt water to get out of the parking lot. Of course, that undercoating and another powerful spray wash job was always the best thing to do, to keep the corrosion away. So, from 1964 Fall to Spring 1976, it was rust free driving for those 125k miles going everywhere on the West Coast. YRMV
We live an area where salt is used generously and there are no old cars unless they come from afar. We Rust Check our cars which is an oily substance sprayed inside all the panels to seal the seams, displace water, and soaks into the dirt. They spray a stiffer mix all over under the car. It creeps everywhere. They used to tell us to run the car down some dusty roads after an application so the dust helps hold the oil under the car. It works but the car stinks for a couple weeks, is not rubber friendly and drips all over the driveway. It looks like the transmission is leaking everywhere. The wife's Ford was 12 years old and spent its life outside. The wife wanted a change so we gave the Ford to her brother who drove it for 3 more years until he passed. The Ford had no rust but it needed about $1200 in mechanical repairs. No one wanted the car so it was junked. The wife's ride lasted 15 years rust free. I have 15 year old Chev truck that I had a couple Rust Check treatments done then I did not bother anymore. The truck is a rusty mess and I am pushing it to live through one more winter. Some old timers used to put used engine oil into their doors, tailgates etc to extend their vehicles lives. Rust Check is not anything that a person would like to do to a treasured old ride but it works great to extend the life of a daily driver.
Grew up in MN, I know the drill. I don’t miss the road salt or it’s effects (but I love MN). I’ve used a pre-treat with Salt Away followed by onsite under-car wash and then the sprinkler treatment when home for short-duration forays into Bonneville Salt Flats. That regime seems to work pretty well so far. I think more substantial rust prevention is needed for longer-term protection. It would be nice to hear specifically what people are using. John
Rust Check sounds nasty. Msds Exposure Guidelines: Hazardous Ingredients Hydrogen Peroxide Dimethyl Phthalate Methyl Ethyl Ketone Methyl Ethyl Ketone Peroxide N/E-Not Established C-Ceiling CAS Number 7722-84-1 131-11-3 78-93-3 1338-23-4 O
Make sure all body drain holes are open....Sometimes undercoaters will plug them when they spray the coatings...
Ive been spraying Danish Oil into the cavities of my vehicles for a few years now. Its a drying furniture oil, similar to tung oil or linseed oil, but its just a blend. Thin it down and it creeps everywhere I use a shutz undercoating gun with a hose over the nozzles for extended reach. Works 100% better than the guns sold to do this ( ive bought 2 brands). The shutz gun has a larger intak e tube. Find a panel access hole, or drill one and use a quality body plug. Reason for furniture oil. 1) dries to a hard film, creeps well. 2) I have 2 gallons of it already Considering fogging the whole bottom of my truck with it this year, just load up an HVLP and put on a tyvek suit and respirator. I have an empty lot next to me, or I can rig up a power inverter and run a pancake compressor to the hlvp gun - drive somewhere and shoot it. Furniture oil sets up fairly quickly, wont drip forever like an oil coat.
Pats55 I feel your pain, I had a 67 Chevy Belair I used as my daily driver. I'm a ski instructor and would drive it to the ski area with it, it was always in a heated building and it rotted out in 10 years. All my daily drivers show rot after 5 years here in the NE. Moral of the story is, don't take the car you like out in the winter and wait till the salt is washed off the road. Pat
I usually have to park my cars in November and don't bring them back out again until the end of March. In March every day I pray for soaking rain it rinse the roads off so I can play with my toys again. I'm some kind of nut when it comes to rust I've been that way for decades. What I used to do the Rhinebeck New York show I would marvel at the trucks coming through the gate that were so rusted it was incredible. There is a video of a quick test I did with some of the popular products mentioned on the Internet.
Being a Wisconsin resident all my life, rusting vehicles is a big problem. I have spent more at car washes with underbody flush than anyone I know (talking 2x a week/ more as needed) through the years and still ended up with rusted out junk in about 5/7 years or so, I'm talking new vehicles I purchased at different times and tried, Ziebart/Rusty Jones/a few other dealer brands can't think of this am( the warranties are all BS, the best you get is a refund of original charge for rust proofing, Been There, Done That !) And the result is the same, rusted out vehicles well before worn out mechanically. IMO the only way to have a survivor Wisconsin car (I have 2) Never drive them in Winter period. Years ago 70's I believe the GM vehicles came pre rusted, 2/3 years junk already, as the years have gone by, it's a little better, but in Wisconsin in Winter if a dark cloud appears the salt trucks are out in full force, we drive in salt clouds on highways And Now we put salt brine on the roads to be sure the salt gets in everywhere thoroughly/quickly. I'm now old and getting grumpy and thinking I should have moved to a warmer climate years ago, I now Winter in Az. but the summers are brutal in the Phoenix area, so I guess I'll continue being a "SnowBird" till I can't and cash out in Wisconsin where all my family is.
I have always sprayed my dailies, currently using TONY available at Napa in Canada,,same as Fluid Film and a fraction of the price. My hot rod I sprayed the product inside the boxed frame for piece of mind although I don’t drive it in winter Only drawback is if i have to work under vehicle,,its pretty messy, that shit gets all over you. My daily driver is 30 years old
Fluid film smells like a goat farm. But in time it dissipates. Messy stuff. But its a double edge sword. It stays wet and creeps into every nook keeping out moisture and stopping rust. They also make Wool Wax that you see on the market. I had the undercarriage of my daily done. But also drilled holes into the side panels to get into those spaces. It would be good for a daily old car or truck used in the northern climates. Perfect for electronic components as its not conductive.
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