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Technical Achievable Pre-War Build

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by RyanAK, Nov 8, 2020.

  1. RyanAK
    Joined: Sep 7, 2019
    Posts: 439

    RyanAK
    Member

    Hey gang. Been enjoying the ‘63 Cutlass I picked up last month and have been making a plan and starting to track down parts to hop it up a bit. But I’m already pondering “what’s next”? I’m sure you all know how it goes.

    My goal has always been to build a pre-war or immediate post-war car, so that’s what I’ve been daydreaming about. No specifics yet, just been reading and researching to get a feel for early traditional hot rods. Then life comes back around and punches me in the face, making me doubt my skills and gumption to get it built.

    I keep coming back to the word ‘achievable’. It’s been a touchstone word for me in a lot of different endeavors, including making bamboo fly rods and model railroading. The idea is to plan a project that can get done with your skill set and resources of time and money, so ambitions are checked and a project doesn’t fizzle out. I thought the idea of ‘achievable’ would translate well to pre-war builds and make for some interesting discussion here on the HAMB. After all, the guys that built these cars 80-100 years ago had some of the same limitations of time, money, and ability. But the cars still got built.

    I’m a modern equivalent to some of these pioneers. Well... the older guys anyway. I’m 42 and have a young family. I wrench pretty good and have some mechanical skills. Fabrication is a weaker point since I haven’t yet learned to weld... but I’m intent on leaning and have friends and family that can weld. I work a full-time job and my time and money is mostly tied up in my kiddos. But I want a car. What’s achievable?

    Given the parameters of the above and say, a $5,000 starting budget, what traditional pre-war build can be reasonably achieved? What’s the path to victory? I have my ideas, but would love to hear yours.

    This might be a good gathering of information, inspiration, and approach for other guys trying to figure it out.

    R

    [​IMG]
     
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  2. davidvillajr
    Joined: Apr 4, 2005
    Posts: 1,165

    davidvillajr
    Member

  3. adam401
    Joined: Dec 27, 2007
    Posts: 2,856

    adam401
    Member

    Here's what you do. Buy a running driving stock model A frame. Buy a 26/27 roadster body. Bolt the body to the frame. Hop up the 4 banger. Achievable. Probably more like 6 to 7 grand without hopping up the engine.

    26/27 t literally bolts to an A frame. Done.
     
  4. RyanAK
    Joined: Sep 7, 2019
    Posts: 439

    RyanAK
    Member

    Joey’s build is super inspiring. Love what he’s pulled off in not much time.

    I’ve always thought that an early car pieced together from a treasure hunt would be fun and satisfying... but it might not be realistic for my situation. Even though I have a strong “collector” gene, with young kids (4 and 5) and a demanding career, hunting out a car’s worth of components and cool bits one by one would be tough. I do think about it... but I’d likely end up with a roller that gets set aside for other priorities... relegated once again to “some day”.

    This is along the lines of what I’ve been thinking. Not exactly, but same idea. I recently ran across a a stock 26 T roadster that had a pretty decent restoration 30 years ago. It now had the look of a 5-10 year old car... just what a guy might have grabbed during the ‘30s to supe up. Got me to thinking about a nifty T Gow... but a T on an A frame would be more with my current interests.

    Anyway... buying a stock car with a worn out restoration as a basis for a build was one of my leading approaches. Modify, add components, change things as time and money allow. Enjoy the car throughout the build and let it evolve. Seems achievable.

    Appreciate the thoughts. What else can be done? Anyone got examples of what they have done for a super achievable build? Either as your first or as a side project.

    Fun stuff.
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2020

  5. LEARN TO WELD FIRST. Take a course, or have someone who knows how, teach you. Nothing stalls a project quicker than relying on others. You get on a roll, and your welder can't get to your project for a month. Project stalls, interest dwindles, years turn into decades. You end up dragging it unfinished everywhere you move to, and finally blow it off 'cause you're sick of looking at it.
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2020
  6. goldmountain
    Joined: Jun 12, 2016
    Posts: 4,442

    goldmountain

    You are looking at parts that are at least 80 years old and today's technology is nothing like that old stuff. What the old guys take for granted is a whole new game for your generation. Ask lots of questions while we are still alive to give answers.

    Sent from my SM-T350 using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
  7. RyanAK
    Joined: Sep 7, 2019
    Posts: 439

    RyanAK
    Member

    Ya know what... you’re absolutely right. No club here in central PA to rely on. Dad is 69 and lives an hour away. Friends flake out. When I owned a commercial fishing boat in Bristol Bay, guys that couldn’t weld were pretty well fucked until they could pay or barter for the work... and even then you were at the mercy of the schedule of the guy with the stinger.

    I have a twenty year old Hobart gas machine with less than 100 hours on it. Guess it’s time to buy a hood and ask Dad for some lessons.

    I also currently have 40 ironworkers, pipefitters and boilermakers working for me. Plus two CWIs who are both instructors. Welding booths and literally acres of steel at my disposal. Guess I should take advantage of the opportunity! :cool:

    Great advice. I thought I might be able to build something that is more bolt up and wrench and heat and bend and hammer... but the more I think on it, the more I’ll be handicapped without being able to weld. Thanks for bringing this back to the front of the priority list.
     
  8. jetnow1
    Joined: Jan 30, 2008
    Posts: 2,152

    jetnow1
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from CT
    1. A-D Truckers

    You might want to look at post war to mid 50's. 4 doors are still pretty cheap. these cars have enough room to bring the family, are modern enough to drive sanely, and are easy to modify. A big advantage
    is the drivetrain is often upgradeable with minimal welding, and a 110 mig welder will handle any sheetmetal repairs.
     
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  9. RyanAK
    Joined: Sep 7, 2019
    Posts: 439

    RyanAK
    Member

    You bet! I didn’t grow up with this stuff and I don’t really have a mentor. Dad and his gang came of age in the ‘60s and ‘70s. Some built cars, but most bought their horsepower new off the lot during the muscle car era. I’m always happy to ask questions and I listen intently when someone takes the time to teach.

    I don’t really know the first thing about today’s tech. My daily drivers are a 42 year old truck and a 57 year old car... both of which are slowly being rebuilt/modified. I’m working out the details for a pretty nifty hop up of the ‘63 Olds. I’ve always been more comfortable with older technology... just not a ton of experience with the early, ‘20s, ‘30s and ‘40s stuff. Lacking a local mentor, I figured time spent with the collective wisdom of the HAMB was a good step. I really appreciate the input.

    R
     
  10. I built a pre war '29 Tudor a couple of years ago, read my build thread '29 banger ...
    5d.jpg
     
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  11. RyanAK
    Joined: Sep 7, 2019
    Posts: 439

    RyanAK
    Member

    Hey, man. Appreciate the thought! It’s crossed my mind and for a while I though the next car would be something like a ‘39 Tudor as a daily driver/family buggy. It’s probably a more ‘reasonable’ car than a T or an A or other pre-‘35 car. But we really are covered with the ‘78 Suburban and the Cutlass for family outings.

    Right now I’d like to build a simple hopped up jalopy to drive on my daily 50 mile round-trip country road commute and tool around the countryside. Take one of the kiddos for a special outing with Dad. Have a date with my wife. A long Saturday solo jaunt through the mountains. That sort of thing.

    But a Phaeton would be pretty OK too!
     
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  12. sloppy jalopies
    Joined: Jun 29, 2015
    Posts: 5,256

    sloppy jalopies
    Member

    sent you a pm.
    pieced together model A body,
    if ME. is not too far...
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2020
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  13. RyanAK
    Joined: Sep 7, 2019
    Posts: 439

    RyanAK
    Member

    This is the ‘26 that’s for sale somewhat locally to me that I ran across and got me pondering. This particular car is probably too nice and too spendy at $8000 for me to truly consider as a starting point, but I saw the pic and immediately started building it in my head. As Adam suggested above, starting with a running, driving stocker... either a complete car or chassis... is one way to get moving on a project and most likely the most achievable approach for me.

    Actually, since I’m comfortable with the mechanical side of things and weak on the fabrication side, a complete, straight roller sans drivetrain is probably more in my wheelhouse. Other guys might have different skill strengths and weaknesses. Or different budgets or time allotments.

    A complete, driving ‘26 with an older restoration. Gow Job nucleus?
    [​IMG]
     
  14. If you are thinking 5k. You are thinking local to a few hundred mile tow. Anything out west would be another 2k to ship back. There are a ton of rocking deals to be had. I would recommend you do some homework and find what you have your heart set on. Sounds like a later 30’s early 40’s Ford.
    find the best example and go from there. Again since Fords seem to be popular you end up having to pay a bit more. I would say if you save up another 2K you may find a decent running project.

    I did a quick search and found a multitude of cars.
    On one hand learning about later 30’s cars makes the early 30’s easier in the end.
    7FFAB4A4-0A1C-4E81-8F76-A240FDC88966.jpeg 21067BAD-CF02-4143-907E-5A4C7563418B.jpeg
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2020
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  15. RyanAK
    Joined: Sep 7, 2019
    Posts: 439

    RyanAK
    Member

    Thanks, Abe. Rest assured I’m doing my homework. I like a lot of the early stuff but seem mostly interested in late ‘20s and early ‘30s cars built up in the mid-‘30s. Fords, Chevrolet, Dodge Bros. are all interesting to me, but Ford stuff seems to be more approachable for a first time pre-war build. Early Fords seem better ‘supported’ for lack of a better term.

    I’m a ways away from staring anything. The Olds is new to me and keeping my interests and has been a ton of fun so far. Just pondering what’s next. This was more of a thought exercise in how a guy could approach a first time traditional pre-war build and have a good chance of success. We all know of projects that never get done because someone got in over their head.

    My two divergent approaches are A) find a clean, complete body or chassis and essentially build a car from scratch, searching out and gathering pieces and making mods as time and budget allow, or B) find a driving stocker and make traditional modifications as would have been done prior to WWII... without completely blowing the car apart down to the last lock washer.

    Approach “B” seems right given the realities of my life. Putting a ‘26/‘27 roadster body on an A chassis and hopping up the 4 feels achievable. Modifying a stock T roadster into a Gow... or a mild Model A build that is limited to lowering the car and a hot banger... these feel achievable when compared to starting with a frame and not much else.

    This might all seem like common sense or second nature to most guys here... but for a guy like me thats been around old cars for a long time but hasn’t built a hot rod... especially a traditional one with all the challenges that entails... well defining a plan that allows the car to get done is a needed first step. There will hopefully be other cars built, each building on the experience of the projects that have come before. But not unless the first car actually gets completed.

    What’s the most basic of traditional ‘recipes’ you guys have built or know about that lets a guy get on the road with a fun car without getting in over his head?
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2020
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  16. lippy
    Joined: Sep 27, 2006
    Posts: 6,825

    lippy
    Member
    from Ks

  17. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 23,263

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Every build is a pre-war build. Just give it some time.
     
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  18. Mikko_
    Joined: Aug 3, 2018
    Posts: 453

    Mikko_
    Member
    from Sweden

    I don't really have anything to ad but I'm currently piecing together a '28 Phaeton with a hopped up Model B banger in it. I started out with a car that was totally disassembled and it is a ton of fun and I'm learning a lot in the process but sometimes I wish I had started out with something that was together and closer to driving.

    I'm also in the process of looking into the next project at the moment, looking at everything from the late 30's to early 60's and having a hard time deciding what I want :D

    P.S. Great to hear that there are more bamboo fly rod fans on this board.
     
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  19. panhead_pete
    Joined: Feb 22, 2006
    Posts: 3,487

    panhead_pete
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    As suggested above a running A minus the body would be a great start and are often priced at around $1K maybe a tad more. Most guys buy nice A coupes then only want the body or at worse body and chassis. You can pick up everything else from those guys for next to nothing.
     
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  20. Sounds like you leaning towards model A bar none. Might as well check out any local Model A clubs or groups. In Ca we have a few in SoCal and and up north. And they have special swaps.
     
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  21. RyanAK
    Joined: Sep 7, 2019
    Posts: 439

    RyanAK
    Member

    Thanks for taking a quick look, Abe. As I'm poking around, there really are quite a few good starting points out there if one takes the time to search.

    For where I am in my life, I think something driving or close to it is the path to having a fun traditional car on the road.

    Bamboo... yup. Fishing and making fly rods are my 'main' passions. I haven't been active in quite a while because of life, but I was/am well known over on the Classic Fly Rod Forum. Also do some wheelin' and dealin' in vintage stuff. PM me sometime.

    I guess I'm leaning to an early Ford because of a perceived idea that it would be a more achievable first build. Availability of cars and parts, knowledge base, etc. But most of my experience is with GM stuff from the '60s and '70s... and I appreciate a lot of different makes. I don't mind a bit of a challenge and would absolutely consider an early Chevrolet or Dodge Bros. or Essex or Pontiac or Willys if the right car came along as a starting point for a build and the challenge wouldn't be so great that the car wouldn't eventually get built. I like different and unique, but don't want to get into something too obscure the first time around that the build fizzles while I search for parts or get frustrated with engineering suspension geometry that there isn't a lot of knowledge on.
     
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  22. ChuckleHead_Al
    Joined: Mar 29, 2004
    Posts: 2,001

    ChuckleHead_Al
    Member

    I built mine as a single dad, one income, worked a lot of 12 hour shifts, daughter was starting elementary school, going thru a divorce. I can't weld (friends helped me) researched a lot of articles here on the HAMB and just went for it. 8D987FF3-CF67-4B98-8314-28AAACDB8EF4_1_201_a.jpeg
     
  23. You could do the same with say a 21 stud motor too. it would still be pre war and wouldn't take any more skill set. You take a stock-ish model A or a T and stuff a 30s era V-8 in it and for the time period it was instant hot rod. ;)

    The nice thing about pre-war cars is that they were simple builds. The hardest part is sourcing the parts and avoiding the temptation to get all crazy with the build.
     
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  24. RyanAK
    Joined: Sep 7, 2019
    Posts: 439

    RyanAK
    Member

    Good on ya, Al! Beautiful car, and attitude really is 90% of the battle. What did you start with as raw material?

    A power swap (or hop up) and the right stance on an otherwise stock car is absolutely the path I feel like I should take. Sourcing parts feels like it will be a challenge (especially if I get too far afield from 'typical'...), but I'm pretty committed to keeping car #1 simple and straight forward so that it actually gets built. There will be other projects to try to up the game.
     
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  25. burl
    Joined: Nov 28, 2007
    Posts: 839

    burl
    Member
    from Minnesota

    Working on this prewar build right now .I like simple stuff and im cheap as they come.Shooting for under $5000 on this one.Its different as its dodge brothers body on a model a frame.I have learned to do all the fab and machine work and able save cost but not time.Trick is to take you time looking for parts as its easy to just google search and just open up the check book. mopar.jpg
     
  26. RyanAK
    Joined: Sep 7, 2019
    Posts: 439

    RyanAK
    Member

    That’s a fantastic looking build and great shopmate! Gonna keep that lab patina or paint him? :p

    I’m good with building skills and doing the fabrication. Machine work (engine) is something else entirely. I have a small mill and a pretty much worthless lathe at home, but do have access to a full blown powerhouse machine shop for anything that needs machines to support fabrication.

    I like simple too, and I’d much rather find, make or rehab the needed part rather than do a credit card / checkbook build. Which is easy since I have zero control over the checkbook and we don’t even have a credit card. :rolleyes:
     
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  27. general gow
    Joined: Feb 5, 2003
    Posts: 6,407

    general gow
    MODERATOR
    Staff Member

    I've built a couple, and I am working on one currently. These types of cars are very doable if you have an open mind and let the cars come together organically. The first one started because of the first Race of Gentlemen. TROG kinda became the the catalyst for a lot of these types of cars, actually.

    The Silver City Special came together much like @adam401 advised. Find a running A chassis and a T body, and go. The T body bolted on pretty easily, and I heated and bent up the pedals to fit, cut some new floorboards, and went. When I sold it, it went to NJ, and then PA, which is where it still is as far as I know, with new paint and a few changes, and it races in the dirt frequently. You can see the process here:
    https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/build-thread-introducing-the-silver-city-spl.723050/

    A couple years later, I got a hold of a T touring body, and had collected a chassis and a lot of parts to do it again. We ended up using the rear half of the touring to build yet another car, and I stretched the front half about 5" to fit in it. This car ran at TROG twice with me, and a third time with the Aussie who bought it. It now resides in Australia:
    https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/the-sachem-special-a-little-t-and-a-for-the-rog.933959/

    And I have embarked on this formula yet again, this time with the intention of keeping the car. This time I am checking off all my boxes, and I have enough experience to make exactly what I want:
    https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/28-model-a-roadster-a-banger-powered-project.1209403/

    In each of the first two cases, I spent well under 5k. Even in today's climate, I think you could do it for just about that. Decent T roadster bodies can be had around 2500 bucks, and a running (or close to it) A chassis can be had for less than that. Some time and a few small parts, and some fabricating little stuff, and you're there. I lucked out on the first one, and by the time I built the second one, I had a stockpile of stuff and a lot of friends with parts to help. The third one is a little fancier, with nicer parts, and cool speed equipment, but that's all accumulated stuff too. It could happen over time with the same car easy enough.

    PA is plentiful with As and Ts and people who mess with them. You should be able to pull off what you want.

    Let me know if I can do anything to help.
     
  28. I started this exact same process a few months ago. Build a pre-war hot rod/racecar for $5k (because that's how much I sold my motorcycle for. LOL ). Take it to TROG and maybe a few laps at Latimore Valley in a vintage race or two....
    Mine is a '23 roadster on an A frame (kind of an Isky T vibe), 59ab, '39 top loader, '40 banjo rear, the body is a pile of tin (touring car skins mostly) that will get cut up and stitched together. As of now, pretty much all of the parts are collected and I still have some cash left over to buy some labor to keep me from ruining the body with my suspect welding skills.
    I have been keeping close tabs on the cash outlay on this one and taking lots of pics along the way.
    Once I get to the assembly part I will do a build thread dump.
    I freely admit that in my case I lucked out on parts, and prices from some great guys who have pretty great stashes of parts.
    Biggest expense so far has been the flatty..
    Chappy
    20201014_205749.jpg 20201014_205735.jpg
     
  29. 1971BB427
    Joined: Mar 6, 2010
    Posts: 8,717

    1971BB427
    Member
    from Oregon

    Achievable is likely different for each person based on skills and money. I've never been afraid to tackle almost anything, and prefer to do everything possible on my car builds. I figure if it requires buying tools to complete a car, then I've still got those tools afterwards, and will use them again. And usually buying tools is far cheaper than paying somebody else to do the same tasks with their tools.
    If you know you'll need a wire feed welder, then buy one and teach yourself to weld, or have a friend who welds come over to give you pointers. And whatever other tools you need, just buy as you save money and can add them to the shop.
    I just turned 70 and I'm still learning how to so things on my builds that I've never done before. If I had room to paint a car, I wouldn't pay anyone to do any part of my builds. It's the one area I still have to farm out, and it irritates me not to have a space I could learn to paint in also!
     
  30. Austin kays
    Joined: Jul 24, 2016
    Posts: 660

    Austin kays
    Member

    Yeah ask me how I know


    Sent from my iPad using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
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