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Technical Halibrand quick change break

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by Jonny Five, Oct 22, 2020.

  1. Jonny Five
    Joined: Oct 22, 2020
    Posts: 8

    Jonny Five

    I picked this 201 halibrand centre last week for $100, the guy I picked it up from said it might be repairable but likely just for a wall hanger. its missing the pinion support bearing area. Now it looks like it has been sanded to be this way not like it was break and then removed. Was this done on purpose or is it actually needing lots of repair? I’ve seen the new winters centres and they don’t have the support bearing......
     

    Attached Files:

    deucemac likes this.
  2. Looks like it was broken at one time and somebody just cleaned up the aftermath
     
  3. DDDenny
    Joined: Feb 6, 2015
    Posts: 19,133

    DDDenny
    Member
    from oregon

    I think that is standard procedure for mounting a clock in it.
     
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  4. alchemy
    Joined: Sep 27, 2002
    Posts: 20,404

    alchemy
    Member

    I’ll give you $150
     
    Deuces likes this.

  5. The earlier 101 Midget version for Model A ring and pinion did not have the support, as you may know.
    The tendency for the pinion gear to climb up the ring gear instead of turning it would lead to the destruction of the case.
    This lead to the improvement of the support being added to the 201 version. They still broke.
    Probably a wall hanger at this point.
     
  6. 28rpu
    Joined: Mar 6, 2001
    Posts: 387

    28rpu
    Member

    Use taper roller pinion bearing set and run it. The pinion has additional support at the rear cover.
     
  7. Jonny Five
    Joined: Oct 22, 2020
    Posts: 8

    Jonny Five

    Ok so what the reason the modern winters v8 quick changes don’t have this support? Are there cases reinforced better?
     

    Attached Files:

    Deuces likes this.
  8. oldtom69
    Joined: Dec 6, 2009
    Posts: 583

    oldtom69
    Member
    from grandin nd

    had a couple center sections with the pinion support milled out to run the ring gear on the other side[reverse rotation engine]-I used them with no problem
     
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  9. Marty Strode
    Joined: Apr 28, 2011
    Posts: 8,796

    Marty Strode
    Member

    Think the pinion is shorter, perhaps that helps on deflection.
     
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  10. seb fontana
    Joined: Sep 1, 2005
    Posts: 8,442

    seb fontana
    Member
    from ct

    Think about that.
     
  11. That is an early 201,Notice the cast in square block at the rear on the side,Early ones had that. Maybe a tooling spot for holding when machining. My 201 had been repaired years ago and I have not had any trouble with the pinion support. Mind you I have a 221 Flathead so not much strain.
     

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  12. GearheadsQCE
    Joined: Mar 23, 2011
    Posts: 3,375

    GearheadsQCE
    Alliance Vendor

    That can be saved. Forget the nose bearing. Converting to double cup tapered roller bearing is HIGHLY recommended.
    Building a Quickchange from an empty case is EXPENSIVE. Parts alone could be $2K.
     
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  13. 303racer
    Joined: Aug 23, 2006
    Posts: 563

    303racer
    Member

    I'd do $300 anything can be repaired if you have skill or money
     
  14. GearheadsQCE
    Joined: Mar 23, 2011
    Posts: 3,375

    GearheadsQCE
    Alliance Vendor

    I have the skill, who has the money?
     
  15. Hello After 28 years the old 201 in the hot rod needs some help.
    It was repaired years ago and now need a little bit of help. You mention a double cup roller bearing and If I get my pinion support repaired can I continue on if I use what you suggest with the double cup bearing? I have a 221 flathead about 100 HP so hope I can get by. There is a crack on the pinion support surround and I have a friend who would weld it up. This more for the look than anything. Otherwise I have an old open drive 47 1/2 ton rear and will use the center section with my 37 bells and axles. Keeping the open drive.
    Thanks Thomas
    Here it is at www.1948fordpickup.blogspot.ca
     

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  16. GearheadsQCE
    Joined: Mar 23, 2011
    Posts: 3,375

    GearheadsQCE
    Alliance Vendor

    Yes, the double cup bearing set up will work in your housing. It has nothing to do with the nose support bearing. It is just a better way to hold the pinion shaft.
    Any competent welder can weld up the nose bearing support. The problem is getting the bearing bore on line and back to the correct size. Almost all of the welded cases I have seen have recracked. This is because no one wants to weld the inside of the bearing bore and get it remachined.

    If you go to the trouble of fixing it right, replace the nose ball bearing with a roller bearing.

    With the double cup Timken bearing, you can leave the nose bearing out in limited torque applications.
     
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  17. Thanks Do you have a p/n for those bearings?
     
  18. GearheadsQCE
    Joined: Mar 23, 2011
    Posts: 3,375

    GearheadsQCE
    Alliance Vendor

    Yes, but it's not a straight drop in.
    You need to know the diameter of the pinion shaft. Should be 1.377". The bearing cones for that shaft are not currently available so 1.375" ones have to be honed to fit. I have them in stock. The double race cup also needs to be modified to fit a ball bearing case. Have those too.
    send me a private conversation and I can help you.

    If you need to replace the R&P start with a non QC set. These will have a 1.500" diameter. Then you can use a readily available bearing cone without modification.
     
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  19. neilswheels
    Joined: Aug 26, 2006
    Posts: 1,213

    neilswheels
    Member
    from England

    IMG_6793.JPG IMG_6804.JPG quickrear.jpg
    So whats a non QC set? I dont know much, but I thought they used 40 ford style R n P's?

    Think I might be PMing you alot, I will be going thru my 201 soon, 9 inch shafts, narrowing etc, the bearings sound like a good idea, especially as the nose support has been repaired. Do you ship to the UK?

    On a side note, mine has an IRS conversion, apparently might be BMW, as they were used in europe on race cars. Interesting that its solid at the bottom from the diff to the open drive.
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2021
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  20. thunderbirdesq
    Joined: Feb 15, 2006
    Posts: 7,092

    thunderbirdesq
    Member

    They can be fixed…but it is labor intensive.
    B0072B08-906E-4C02-BFEC-CE1964F7B08C.jpeg 2B408378-229A-4D10-9BF1-F14B8E640718.jpeg FBDBCD2C-B31C-428E-A03C-9DD90497F617.jpeg 58D6CF24-1379-4258-AC6D-EC532AD38FA7.jpeg 2A5FFB15-FB0A-47CE-B3F7-42C3A3A052CE.jpeg 940AD28C-04B5-45F0-AC77-1E8D4A4D0607.jpeg
     
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  21. Wow! That’s impressive!^^^^^^^
     
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  22. Blue One
    Joined: Feb 6, 2010
    Posts: 11,459

    Blue One
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Alberta

    Yes I can see that it would be labor intensive however as a welder I wouldn’t be able to leave that job as is showing in the pictures.

    I see un welded spots in that repair that as nice as it looks would lead to breaking again under stress over time.
     
  23. thunderbirdesq
    Joined: Feb 15, 2006
    Posts: 7,092

    thunderbirdesq
    Member

    You must be mistaken or just not seeing all the pics. The joint is fully welded around the entire perimeter inside and out. Welding up the portion on the inside of the pinion cage was a bit of a trick.

     
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  24. Blue One
    Joined: Feb 6, 2010
    Posts: 11,459

    Blue One
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Alberta

    I bet it was a trick. I’ve got a small tig torch with a short back cap to get into small places and it’s still tough.
    I circled a couple spots where I would have tried to join the inside weld to the outside.
    Whenever we were doing high stress structural welds the inspector would not allow un welded corner transitions like that they had to be fully welded to eliminate that stress cracking point.
    I can’t see how the job turned out looking in from the opposite side because it’s not posted.
    73852DDA-F48A-479A-8BC4-B506534EA088.jpeg
     
  25. thunderbirdesq
    Joined: Feb 15, 2006
    Posts: 7,092

    thunderbirdesq
    Member

    Ah I see what you mean, that pic was taken after the exterior welds were finished but I hadn’t pulled the pinion and welded the inside yet. I did the outer welds with the pinion installed to keep everything straight and square minimizing distortion. It worked well, after everything was wrapped up you could easily spin the pinion by hand.

    Here is a shot from when we started polishing it, you can make out that the weld continues around that corner and into the pinion cage.
    36589B2A-97BD-4FB0-A608-701ACEF8D020.jpeg


     
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  26. Blue One
    Joined: Feb 6, 2010
    Posts: 11,459

    Blue One
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Alberta

    Looks good with the welds wrapped around the corners it’s probably stronger than it ever was even new.
    That shows that even the housing posted earlier could be saved.
    I’m really enjoying my new Winters V8 QC in my RPU.
     
    thunderbirdesq likes this.
  27. thunderbirdesq
    Joined: Feb 15, 2006
    Posts: 7,092

    thunderbirdesq
    Member

    I would think so too. This one is going in the restoration of the bob hamke t, original hot rod raced at bonneville in the 50s.
    CF372D13-B953-45AD-A009-B8600F27DAFA.jpeg F6AE9773-B4BF-4B56-A89D-CC935B4EF346.jpeg

    I’ll bet you are, Winters makes a great qc, I know this because I’ve had to fix a bunch of halibrands but never a winters haha

     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2021
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  28. thunderbirdesq
    Joined: Feb 15, 2006
    Posts: 7,092

    thunderbirdesq
    Member

    that’s why I started tossing the old battered bearing supports and machining a new one and then welding it in, much easier to do the machining first on a small hunk of aluminum than on a big housing. I use an early ford pinion and bearings to hold everything in place, weld it all up on the outer surfaces, pull the pinion and weld the inside of the gear cage. Every time so far after reinstalling he pinion it can be spun by hand after all welding operations are done.
     
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