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Technical Buick 215 Mild Warm Over Thoughts?

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by RyanAK, Oct 2, 2020.

  1. I wanted something different for my radical custom. I found a 215 Oldsmobile engine that had new Egge pistons and the crank had been polished. I opened up the ports a little and am going to run a thumper cam with 6 holley 94 carbs. It will have 289 Roaster headers (almost the same pattern) welded to Rover exhaust headers. Tricked out distributor, in front of a 350 trans. I am in the process of adapting the trans to that wonderful unique bolt pattern.
    215 with the turbo had 215 HP (restricted by the use of a corvair side draft carb.
    215 with a 4bbl 11: 25 to 1 compression also had 215 HP.
    detonation ate up a lot of these engines...use water injection or high octane gas.
     
  2. G-son
    Joined: Dec 19, 2012
    Posts: 1,276

    G-son
    Member
    from Sweden

  3. RyanAK
    Joined: Sep 7, 2019
    Posts: 439

    RyanAK
    Member

    Isn't it cool what can be done? DOHC Formula cars, double engine dragsters, Underdog diven by an 80lb little person...
     
  4. RyanAK
    Joined: Sep 7, 2019
    Posts: 439

    RyanAK
    Member

    Hey, Marcus. I'll see what I can find out. The guy I bought the car from pulled it out of the fella's garage where it sat in stasis for a couple decades. The guy that had it in his garage didn't remember much... he's pretty advanced in age. Best we can figure is that the Buick was swapped in ~40 years ago when the Olds needed a rebuild and then essentially parked. I will see what I can find out. Apparently the rebuilt Olds is still in the garage on a pallet, but he was asking big money. It'd be cool to have that motor on a stand as a starting point for another engine build.

    And yeah... this might not be the only Buick or Olds that ends up in Mifflinburg with the Sabos. They're pretty neat. But... I do want to build a traditional Model A in the next few years. A 40s-style car. So... we'll see. :cool:

    I'll see what I can find out about which heads have better potential for when/if we tackle head work. Depending on the pistons, a head swap might require going after the pistons too.

    Smart money is probably to have the head work done by someone like Mike VV that knows what they're doing. But I ain't wired like that. When I decided a decade ago that I wanted to fish with bamboo fly rods I bought a few and learned about them. Then I dove in full tilt and set up shop to build my own, building most of the tools and machinery needed to do so. So I'd give porting a shot on a spare set of heads.

    NO WORRIES about the forced induction! It's pretty damn cool and something I hadn't considered. That's why this place is great! I'm in "information gathering" mode, so the more the better. Once I decide on a path forward, I dive in and stay the course. 4-71 isn't off the table completely. It makes complete sense for my end goal and is traditional. Plus, whoever comes across this thread in the future might get inspired too. I know little about forced induction, but it's super fun learning. I'll shoot you a PM, but don't hesitate to dump thoughts and suggestions here. It's all good, brother!

    Ryan
     
  5. LAROKE
    Joined: Sep 5, 2007
    Posts: 2,079

    LAROKE
    Member

    This was my friend, Dave Smith's '52 MG TD with a blown Buick 215. Quite a sleeper down here when Dave was still with us..

    [​IMG]
     
  6. wuga
    Joined: Sep 21, 2008
    Posts: 563

    wuga
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    1930-ford-sedan-street-shaker-front.jpg
    I originally built this car for the Detroit Autorama. It had a 4.6 with 300 heads and an 8 to 1 compression, running a 6:53 blower and triple Strombergs. The engine didn't behave well on the street and one night I hydrolocked it.
    tires.jpg
    I had built a second engine at the same time. A 4.6 with 300 heads and 10.5 to 1 compression. It was very streetable but didn't do anything for me.
    JJ2.jpg
    I wanted something closer to what I had built in the early 60s. Here it is with the triple Strombergs. I built the headers using a Ford 289 kit from Speedway and plasma cut flanges. With progressive linkage, this car is now fun to drive. I love these small Buicks.
    Warren
     
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  7. Hollywood-East
    Joined: Mar 13, 2008
    Posts: 1,993

    Hollywood-East
    Member

    I replied twice an didn't load, Anyway... My 63 same Color even got parted out 20 yrs. Ago by the guy I sold it to , An Yes the Oak is on! Jay Filet is cleaning fish, I'm two miles away on rt.98 Huge stone building across from HoJacks.
     
  8. sunbeam
    Joined: Oct 22, 2010
    Posts: 6,213

    sunbeam
    Member

    Lets look at what you have a 220 inches or so a that a 4GC should have no trouble feeding. If you pull the heads do a pocket port just braking the sharp edges in the machining behind the the valves and a cam like the Crower 50232
     
  9. RyanAK
    Joined: Sep 7, 2019
    Posts: 439

    RyanAK
    Member

    A '52 MG with a blown 215, three of Warren's 173 variations of this motor, a 215 in a midget, Rick's 215 in a custom running 6! Holley 94s, Warren's 4-71 blower approach, Bob's mild cammed 215 in a Morris Minor, Brabham Formula, Mickey Thompson Indy, Olds Jetfire turbo, 215 stroker with a 300 crank and heads, doubled-up 215s in a dragster, Underdog, that '62 with the W- Machine-style outside air induction, Buick versions, Olds versions, Rover versions, 215 V8s in MGs and Triumphs, Lynn's 215 in a T...

    Oh... and they came stock in '61-'63 Buick Specials and Skylarks, '61-'63 Oldsmobile F-85s and Cutlasses, and '61 Pontiac Tempests.

    And this isn't even scratching the surface...
     
  10. RyanAK
    Joined: Sep 7, 2019
    Posts: 439

    RyanAK
    Member

    Exhaust... thought this might interest some:

    Here's the article: Souping the Special

    Hot Rodding the Buick - Spotlite Book 537 - Hot Rod Magazine Technical Library - by Bob Russo

    This is from the section on the 215s in Reventlow's Scarab and Thompson's Indy car.

    "Considerable advantage can be gained with the V8, and especially with the V6, through modification of the exhaust system. A good set of headers such as Hedman or other top name products will pretty well take car of the small restriction which is evident in the exhaust manifold.

    Another method involves a Y-type system whereby a supercharging effect is applied to the exhaust gasses as they leave the exhaust pipe. this can be accomplished with two pipes of 1 3/4-inch diameter running from the exhaust manifold on each cylinder bank, back to a single two-inch pipe and joined in the area of the flywheel. the single pipe should then be extended a minimum of 30 inches for best effect.

    Actually, the Y acts as a venturi, and you actually have a suction applied to each bank. When one bank exhausts, it applies a suction the the opposite bank. This particular system works best on the V6, although it is effective on the V8 also, and the improvement it brings can be noticed in acceleration runs of a quarter-mile or more."


    I need to find this full book!
     
  11. 37slantback
    Joined: May 31, 2010
    Posts: 480

    37slantback
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Need to get a polished 8x1 to stand out :-D
     

    Attached Files:

  12. RyanAK
    Joined: Sep 7, 2019
    Posts: 439

    RyanAK
    Member

    Super cool!

    If any of you missed the two articles I posted, they're pretty great reading:

    HRM '61 - Click --> "Modifying GM's Aluminum V8s" - Ray Block with Edelbrock
    Excerpt from "Hot Rodding the Buick" - Click --> "Souping the Special" - Bob Russo
     
  13. wuga
    Joined: Sep 21, 2008
    Posts: 563

    wuga
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Here is a nice setup from Pierce Intake Webber manifolds
    Warren
    Weber-6.jpg
     
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  14. gsjohnny
    Joined: Nov 27, 2007
    Posts: 241

    gsjohnny
    Member

    ryan, after all this info.......are you done yet ????:D:D:D:D:D
     
  15. SR100
    Joined: Nov 26, 2013
    Posts: 1,130

    SR100
    Member

    I'm pretty sure that's a 4x Weber manifold...
     
  16. RyanAK
    Joined: Sep 7, 2019
    Posts: 439

    RyanAK
    Member

    Cool stuff, fellas! Pretty amazing what was created for these little guys. Makes a guy wonder where some of this stuff is hiding!

    R
     
  17. RyanAK
    Joined: Sep 7, 2019
    Posts: 439

    RyanAK
    Member

    Going to get the car and drive it from Rochester to central PA on Monday. Then the fun can begin. Seat belts, carpet, tires. Then we can start driving and enjoying it while we finalize plans and start gathering suspension and speed parts.

    I’m zeroing in on a ‘conventional’ plan, but haven’t quite shook off the thought of some of the more radical stuff. I really need about four blocks on stands to do all the cool stuff I’d like to try. And 4 more Y-body cars to stick the motors in. :cool:
     
  18. RyanAK
    Joined: Sep 7, 2019
    Posts: 439

    RyanAK
    Member

    215ci Version 01:
    • Buick block
    • Buick high-compression pistons (unknown, but hopefully...)
    • Buick heads - valve job, port matched, worked over, etc., w/quality thin gaskets
    • Camshaft - Isky or Crane w/springs, lifters, etc. Need to zero in on a grind, but wanted to try to go with Isky or Crane since they were two of the first to offer 215 cams... (or maybe I just like their stickers the best... :p) Decent idle, low-mid range band, done by 5000-5500 RPM
    • Carb - Holley 390 or Rochester 4GC
    • Intake - Edelbrock Performer (I'd truly prefer a vintage intake... Or a new intake on a vintage pattern... But the Performer seems to be well-liked...)
    • Exhaust - stock manifolds to 1.75" or 2" full-length dual w/Porter steelpack mufflers (I'd love to get non-hugger headers in there but space may be an issue...)
    • Ignition - stock points setup with quality parts, timed for power and re-curved if needed
    • Transmission - Roto Hydromatic 5 - 3.03, 1.58, 1.00
    • Rear - 3.36:1
    • Wheel/Tire - ~24.5" diameter
    215ci Version 02:
    • Ditto above but running an Edelbrock or Offy 2x2v intake and Chevy (bigger) 2GC carbs.
    All the shared knowledge has been greatly appreciated. We're zeroing in on a plan. Any additional thoughts on a cam or intake/carb setup would be great. A couple HAMBers have jumped in via PM and I couldn't be more thankful. Spencer wants an Oldsmobile hat. Guess the first "part" to be ordered will be a cover for his brain bucket. :)
     
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  19. RyanAK
    Joined: Sep 7, 2019
    Posts: 439

    RyanAK
    Member

  20. RyanAK
    Joined: Sep 7, 2019
    Posts: 439

    RyanAK
    Member

    And dad just handed me his old club plaque. I didn’t even know he ran in a club!
    [​IMG]
     
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  21. RyanAK
    Joined: Sep 7, 2019
    Posts: 439

    RyanAK
    Member

    Home! Now the fun can begin. Easy drive through peak foliage from central PA to Rochester and back. Kids love it. They’ve named her “Blue Cheese”. Don’t let preschoolers name your cars! [​IMG]


    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
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  22. gsjohnny
    Joined: Nov 27, 2007
    Posts: 241

    gsjohnny
    Member

    oh noooooo. i don't even walk in front of the car when my drives. :eek::D
     
  23. RyanAK
    Joined: Sep 7, 2019
    Posts: 439

    RyanAK
    Member

    Working through some 'comfort' projects before we get into the suspension and engine. Weatherstrip, rear seatbelts, etc.

    The Buick is running pretty well now that I have the choke on the 4GC Rochester adjusted well. Only issue right now is a bog going into the secondaries. Feels like delayed opening or an accelerator pump, but pump was replaced by the PO. (Doesn't mean it hasn't crapped out already...) Apparently the spring tension adjustment is buried deep inside the carb... so every time you want to tweak the spring wrap, you gotta pull the carb. Ugh. Why?! :confused:

    Which got me thinking about carbs. Reliability, tune-ability, power and... plays nice with the Roto tranny. Joe P, who has fooled around with a lot of these cars and is very generous with his encyclopedic knowledge, has shared his 500cfm Edelbrock set up with fab'd TV linkage. If this'n was a 4-speed car, no worries and play with induction. But running the temperamental auto tranny, whatever is metering gas and air better be able to control the tranny too!

    Fun stuff. Here's how the car is sitting at the moment.
    [​IMG]
     
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  24. Ebbsspeed
    Joined: Nov 11, 2005
    Posts: 6,250

    Ebbsspeed
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    It's a beaut, Clark!
     
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  25. sunbeam
    Joined: Oct 22, 2010
    Posts: 6,213

    sunbeam
    Member

    How about a GS 340 and a can of aluminum paint and keep your mouth shut.
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2020
  26. nrgwizard
    Joined: Aug 18, 2006
    Posts: 2,516

    nrgwizard
    Member
    from Minn. uSA

    GS 215 ! :D .
    Should be able to find enough factory letters n #s to change from olds to buick, & use a light adhesive to mount them. Go on - mess w/people, tell them you *think it may be* a relatively unknown rare factory version you stumbled onto. & that you can't wait to modify it! :D .
    Marcus...
     
  27. carbking
    Joined: Dec 20, 2008
    Posts: 3,715

    carbking
    Member

    Don't tweak the spring!

    Replace the spring when you rebuild the carburetor with a new one, set it at 1/2 turn, and leave it alone.

    Jon.
     
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  28. RyanAK
    Joined: Sep 7, 2019
    Posts: 439

    RyanAK
    Member

    Thanks, man! I'm even starting to like the "Wedgewood Mist"!

    It's crossed my mind... :cool: But I really want to build a 215.
     
  29. RyanAK
    Joined: Sep 7, 2019
    Posts: 439

    RyanAK
    Member

    This is how I'm gonna mess with people: This sticker in the quarter window and paint the valve covers nailhead green. :p
    [​IMG]
     
  30. RyanAK
    Joined: Sep 7, 2019
    Posts: 439

    RyanAK
    Member

    Yeah, thanks Jon. 10-4. I just got used to tuning the Quadrajet on my Suburban... Secondary air adjustment is right there so you can adjust how you go into those big secondaries. Does a new spring come in most 4GC rebuild kits or is this a 'take it to the hardware store and pick out one that matches' kind of replacement?
     

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