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Technical Stopping Single Stage Red Paint Prone to Severe Oxidation

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by MrCreosote, Oct 16, 2020.

  1. MrCreosote
    Joined: Jul 23, 2009
    Posts: 368

    MrCreosote
    Member
    from USA

    Buffs back to glass, then back to chalk in months.

    Ceramic or Graphene Coatings?

    Not interested in gloss or any other property except for the water shedding which has value. Use is for daily driver probably painted more often than it is washed - just want it to stop chalking.

    Thanks
    Tom

    Just so you know where my head is at: I had a white Windstar cargo van for over 15 years, never washed or waxed and the darn thing always looked clean - even my neighbor asked how I kept it so clean.
     
  2. Torana68
    Joined: Jan 28, 2008
    Posts: 1,415

    Torana68
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Australia

    sounds like your using something thats not designed for exposure to sun light. Answer probably is find something that will stand up to sunlight. Must be something in the various custon paint suppliers catalogues that will do?
     
  3. BJR
    Joined: Mar 11, 2005
    Posts: 9,814

    BJR
    Member

    Spray it with clear.
     
    Bandit Billy and catdad49 like this.
  4. loudbang
    Joined: Jul 23, 2013
    Posts: 40,276

    loudbang
    Member

    Carnuba wax it
     
    squirrel likes this.

  5. southcross2631
    Joined: Jan 20, 2013
    Posts: 4,413

    southcross2631
    Member

    Keep it out of the sun or spray some clear on it.
     
  6. Petejoe
    Joined: Nov 27, 2002
    Posts: 12,263

    Petejoe
    Member
    from Zoar, Ohio

  7. I am aware that single stage is commonly used but as I learned 15 years ago, if it's out in the sun a lot, it's going to have problems. Shooting clear over it is the only cure that I'm aware of. Having never tried, I can't vouch for the effectiveness. Single stage has almost no uv protection in it. There have been many discussions about this subject and the consensus has been that brands make no difference, all single stage is subject to uv failure.
     
  8. Happydaze
    Joined: Aug 21, 2009
    Posts: 1,903

    Happydaze
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    There's something intrinsically wrong with some red paint. I had an 80's VW that did exactly as described. Came back easily enough but was too much maintenance for me! My 32 roadster, painted in 1999 is also red but is 2 pack paint (not base / clear, so I guess that makes it single stage) and I have no issues.

    Chris
     
  9. 2OLD2FAST
    Joined: Feb 3, 2010
    Posts: 5,216

    2OLD2FAST
    Member
    from illinois

    IIRC , martin senour/ Sherwin Williams catalysed acrylic enamel was non photochemically reactive . Without the catalyst it faded almost as bad as synthetic ! Clear over either acrylic lacquer or acrylic enamel makes the surface UV resistant.
     
  10. Jalopy Joker
    Joined: Sep 3, 2006
    Posts: 31,177

    Jalopy Joker
    Member

    was told years ago by pro painter that red, and yellow, single stage will fade out faster than other colors - if normal paint rubbing /cleaning compounds, do not bring back the shine when used with quality wax then start using a product listed in thread linked to this one for non-shiny finishes
     
  11. MrCreosote
    Joined: Jul 23, 2009
    Posts: 368

    MrCreosote
    Member
    from USA

    The reds and dark blues/greens that were hyper oxidizers were from around 1965 to 1975 that I had problems with. In particular a 1972 Cadillac Eldorado was horrible in this regard. No wax at that time worked.

    Clearing is off the table only because if I'm going to prep, mask, etc. to clear, I'm going to fix a bunch of small rust bits and paint it.

    WAXES: Meguires actually states the UV protection is in the clear coat and very little protection is in wax. Found a guy actually measuring UV transmission in 4 or 5 waxes and none of them did anything that was measurable.

    MARINE / BOATS: It occurred to me that marine applications might be more relevant. I've never heard of people waxing their boats, so I'm guessing boats might have the best UV paint tech out there.

    EYEGLASSES: I know that they claim UV Protection with a coating.

    FALSE CLAIMS: It could be all the UV and "Increased UV" protection claimed by sealants and ceramic coatings while "true" are at negligible levels (since all the UV protection is in the clear coat.)

    BEST PROTECTION MIGHT JUST BE THE THICKEST
     
  12. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 55,934

    squirrel
    Member

    Boats have color in the gel coat, don't they?

    White doesn't appear to oxidize, because the oxide is white, so it blends in just fine. The white oxide really shows on a color like red.

    There are lots of peeling clear coats on modern cars in this part of the country. The only sure thing I've found to keep paint from oxidizing, is to park in the shade. Inside a closed garage is best. If you drive to work every day and have to leave it out in the sun, it's gonna oxidize after a while. If you don't feel like maintaining it with frequent buffing/waxing, then it'll look bad.
     
    0NE BAD 51 MERC likes this.
  13. MrCreosote
    Joined: Jul 23, 2009
    Posts: 368

    MrCreosote
    Member
    from USA

    Actually there was a real problem with black and dark blue in the early days of carbon fiber hulls. The first CF panels (cars and boats) were made with non-high temp resins resulting in panels that were not stable and "printed through" when exposed to sunlight. It was a disaster in the boat industry when after just months you could see the weave instead of the glass finish.

    Of course that has nothing to do with oxidation.

    Paint robustness has been seriously compromised by the EPA and VOC regs. Clear coats peel while single stages never did.

    Back in the day, if you car got dull, you simply waxed it. But the Red Paint Problem was a completely different animal.

    There may very well be no coating solution since all the new stuff assumes a clearcoat/basecoat paint.
     
  14. MrCreosote
    Joined: Jul 23, 2009
    Posts: 368

    MrCreosote
    Member
    from USA

    EDIT: The following conclusions are WRONG, I forgot to notice the "...enhanced..." adjective.

    I take that back, Graphene may work:

    "The ultraviolet absorbance ratios of single and four atomic layers graphene are enhanced up to 71.4% and 92.2%, respectively. Our research provides a simple and efficient scheme to trap ultraviolet light for developing promising photonic and optoelectronic devices based on graphene and potentially other 2D materials."
    So if they actually put graphene in "graphene coatings," then there is a shot and if a 2nd application lays down additional layers of graphene, then near total UV blockage should be possible.

    EDIT: HOWEVER on page 2 of https://eprints.soton.ac.uk/419987/...pdf_archiveAPPLABvol_112iss_15153106_1_am.pdf
    it states that a single layer of graphene absorbs 9% and transmitts 91% of UV. So n layers of graphene would result in the transmission of .91 raised to the nth power. n=16 is about 20% transmission, 8 is 50%.

    So the coating micro structure could have anything from graphene as an ingredient but mostly ineffective to multiple molecular layers.

    If it does have a single layer, then 16 coats wouldn't be a reach considering the Zaino "coat cultists!"
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2020

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