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Hot Rods Let's talk Cadillac 331's, 365 and 390's

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Roothawg, Apr 7, 2016.

  1. Roothawg
    Joined: Mar 14, 2001
    Posts: 24,523

    Roothawg
    Member

    Is that the new Gear Drive manifold?
     
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  2. winduptoy
    Joined: Feb 19, 2013
    Posts: 3,331

    winduptoy
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

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  3. Roothawg
    Joined: Mar 14, 2001
    Posts: 24,523

    Roothawg
    Member

    He makes nice stuff.
     
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  4. MikeD
    Joined: Sep 10, 2006
    Posts: 20

    MikeD
    Member
    from mass.

    Well, I haven’t been on this site in probably a decade...been just a tad busy with life ...I may be able to answer some questions re the caddy engine performance builds and issues...we run a allardj2 in Vintage race events for about 25 years now...using a cad 390 engine, bored and stroked, 3 deuces, points ignition, headers, alum flywheel, super t10, etc etc....we run a custom made roller cam that’s much larger than isky ones, custom roller rockers with 1.6 ratio billet rods and 13.5 to 1 cr...we also run a olds 455 oil pump that uses a adaptor on the main cap as well as a slightly modified olds oil pump drive rod....hp is north of 480 and torque north of 525.....olds oil pump because it turns cc like the caddy one, but puts out way more pressure as needed by the higher comp ratio...also puts out a bit more volume but we wanted it simply because of the pressure...normally 50+ at all times....no bearing or oiling issues in 20+ years....we did suffer broken rockershafts due to heavy valve spring pressures due to the roller cam...both shafts broke more than 5 years into use at the same time....only the outer ends BENT because there wasn’t a outer shaft mount but after designing outer mounts as well as new shafts made of thicker modern material we haven’t had any issues....well over 100 races since....rpm is generally kept at 5500 but we do run up to 6000 when needed, but that’s pretty rare as torque and hp are dropping off at that point....a very reliable trouble free engine all these years....
     
  5. Roothawg
    Joined: Mar 14, 2001
    Posts: 24,523

    Roothawg
    Member

    Welcome back Mike D. Please hang around, we are dying for Caddy knowledge around here.

    I would really like to see the oil pump setup.
     
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  6. You're not the only one!
     
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  7. What they said :rolleyes:........:)
     
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  8. MikeD
    Joined: Sep 10, 2006
    Posts: 20

    MikeD
    Member
    from mass.

    I just put together the engine for the Allard, and I’m not gonna pull the pan to take pics, but, I will do a mock up of the parts and photograph them for you. I will also note what mods need to be done to make it all work....
     
  9. MikeD
    Joined: Sep 10, 2006
    Posts: 20

    MikeD
    Member
    from mass.

  10. MikeD
    Joined: Sep 10, 2006
    Posts: 20

    MikeD
    Member
    from mass.

  11. MikeD
    Joined: Sep 10, 2006
    Posts: 20

    MikeD
    Member
    from mass.

    Here's pictures of the parts to make the olds 455 oil pump work on the cadillac.
     

    Attached Files:

  12. MikeD
    Joined: Sep 10, 2006
    Posts: 20

    MikeD
    Member
    from mass.

    once I get the oil pump base machined to the proper angle, I will send along a pic of that...I do offer to do all the work, supply the parts and ship it all back to you. all I would need is your rear main cap. the bronze gear is strictly for a steel roller cam. I had several cams made for my own use and had about a dozen gears made to work with those cams. longevity is pretty good on the bronze gear. I generally replace them about every 10 years as they show some wear on the teeth on our race motors. street motors with a roller cam probably would use up the gear in a shorter time frame. as far as con rods go, you can use BBC billet rods but they need to be narrowed on the big end to fit and the crank would need to be ground to the BBC journal diameter. if you stroke the crank to the chevy journal diameter you can do it without adding metal to the crank to get that extra stroke, but piston pin height needs to be dealt with on the pistons. and thats not a big deal when doing forged custom pistons.
     
  13. Wow, awesome , great info and modifications :eek: What .842 roller lifter setup are you using ?
     
  14. scruff
    Joined: Apr 11, 2004
    Posts: 300

    scruff
    Member

    This is great info, I'd love to hear about cylinder head mods to make that power.

    Sent from my SM-A705W using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
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  15. MikeD
    Joined: Sep 10, 2006
    Posts: 20

    MikeD
    Member
    from mass.

    Roller lifters, .842 dia for caddyroller cam are BAM2029-16 BB4 Pro plus...they have a tall body for the tie bar...the spacing of the tie bar is too wide so you have to disassemble the bar and modify one side for figment...it’s a solid roller and when using them you also need to plug the oil holes in the block for the lifters and then drill a .060 hole for oiling....we use a1/4 inch threaded plug, drilled and tapped the block for all 16 oil holes and then drilled each one with a 060 bit.....re the heads, those are the limiting factor on the caddy engines and ain’t much you can do to get around it...the place that did our heads said they got them to flow about a good as a decent set of sbc heads. It would be nice if someone like edelbrock reproduced them and made provisions to help in the bowl and ports. I did talk with Vic years ago about that and it wasn’t on their to do list. Maybe times have changed????
     
  16. Good info.! Thanks!
     
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  17. Excellent work and explanations, sounds like you have delved deep and done a lot of work into the modifications for these great engines!!Cheers :cool:
     
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  18. This is great new information....Thanks Mike!


    Sent from my iPad using H.A.M.B.
     
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  19. Roothawg
    Joined: Mar 14, 2001
    Posts: 24,523

    Roothawg
    Member

    Last edited: Nov 2, 2020
  20. ^^^^Both good reads, thanks
     
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  21. Roothawg
    Joined: Mar 14, 2001
    Posts: 24,523

    Roothawg
    Member

    When we get close to the end of this thread, who knows when that is, I’ll compile all of the links in one place.

    I may even start another thread for Caddy threads but then I would have to list it in my other thread....:)
     
  22. Roothawg
    Joined: Mar 14, 2001
    Posts: 24,523

    Roothawg
    Member

    @MikeD do you guys do any machine work on the rear main seal to accept the more modern seals? My Caddy has the first rendition of a 2 piece rubber seal.

    Also, I am curious how much meat you can take out for valve springs? The stock spring is 1.200" I believe. I'm really wanting to dump the stock clunky retainer/seals. I have pondered a beehive spring.
     
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2020
  23. BDRodder
    Joined: Sep 22, 2011
    Posts: 45

    BDRodder
    Member

    Guys, question. I am going to replace my dual quad 425 nailhead in my 5 window with a 59 390. I found a set of what looks to be 1963 390 heads on ebay
    (stamped: 1479831 )

    Will they fit????
     
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  24. Moriarity
    Joined: Apr 11, 2001
    Posts: 30,778

    Moriarity
    SUPER MODERATOR
    Staff Member

    If they are 63 then Hollander says yes they fit . Interchange number 586

    D01B282C-36B7-41B5-9B95-918C9AEBCFCA.jpeg D68E7A0E-2E33-40AF-BB29-EF9CB5DC9FA0.jpeg
     
  25. Roothawg
    Joined: Mar 14, 2001
    Posts: 24,523

    Roothawg
    Member

    Mark, that’s interesting. The Gen 1 390 series ended in 1962, but some part interchange. The distributor moved from the back to the front in 63. I know the exhaust manifolds are interchangeable. Hollander’s knows though...
     
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  26. swissmike
    Joined: Oct 22, 2003
    Posts: 1,297

    swissmike
    Member

    Can anybody confirm pushrods are installed with the tapered small end down facing the lifters? Thanks!

    [​IMG]


    Sent from my iPhone using H.A.M.B.
     
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  27. Moriarity
    Joined: Apr 11, 2001
    Posts: 30,778

    Moriarity
    SUPER MODERATOR
    Staff Member

    50E439D4-9F87-464D-B38D-A03FFF3B0443.jpeg 28CD2C5D-07FE-4573-8919-02ABD02D99B7.jpeg 8D7BE634-D7A8-4D14-9687-FB9D757A23E4.jpeg
    The manual says to put the grooved side facing up, hope that makes sense. I guess there are different radius on each end
     
  28. swissmike
    Joined: Oct 22, 2003
    Posts: 1,297

    swissmike
    Member

    Thanks Moriarty! I have the same manual and “grooved end” description doesn’t make any sense. Neither do the illustrations. My motor was rebuilt and had the tapered tip installed up and one of the tips was broken off.

    IMG_0996.JPG

    According to Feltz from Terrill Machine, the tapered side goes into the lifter. The smaller radius in the tapered side seems to have worn into the cast rocker arms which I also had to replace. Caddydaddy had the early 49 cam and correct pushrods and lifter combination (I hope...).
    I found a pic on the web that shows the fat side with the little flat on top. The radius is a good match with the rocker arm and I believe the flat might be to allow the oil flow through the tiny hole in the rocker arm.

    IMG_1512.JPG

    I will go with the tapered side down, install the heads and check lifter preload today.


    Sent from my iPhone using H.A.M.B.
     
  29. Moriarity
    Joined: Apr 11, 2001
    Posts: 30,778

    Moriarity
    SUPER MODERATOR
    Staff Member

    isn't that a groove on the pushrod on the left in your pic?
     
  30. swissmike
    Joined: Oct 22, 2003
    Posts: 1,297

    swissmike
    Member

    I was debating that...
    The tip has the step or shoulder and a small groove where the tip is attached to the shaft, but the same small groove is where the taper attaches to the shaft on the other side. Not very conclusive IMO.
    IMG_0997.JPG


    Sent from my iPhone using H.A.M.B.
     

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