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Technical I have A LONG RUN from RADIATOR to ENGINE. OPTIONS???

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Clik, Oct 13, 2020.

  1. Clik
    Joined: Jul 1, 2009
    Posts: 1,965

    Clik
    Member

    My radiator is in the front and the engine is in the back of the truck.

    I don't want a whole bunch of joints.

    I'm not seeing long lengths of anything easily available at a reasonable price.

    I thought about aluminum conduit but it's not available in 1-3/4 for the bottom.

    I suppose I could use 1-1/2" top and bottom.

    I think they put something in aluminum conduit to make wires pull easy though. Maybe it's just silicone but I don't need some plastic or wax gumming up my radiator.

    Maybe I should just go with copper but I'm not sure if that's a good mix with an aluminum radiator. That might induce some electrolysis problems.

    Thoughts?????????????

     
  2. gene-koning
    Joined: Oct 28, 2016
    Posts: 4,040

    gene-koning
    Member

    My 1st thought was to make sure the 1 1/2" conduit your looking at is aluminum. The 1 1/2" stuff around here is steel with a galvanized coating and looks a lot like aluminum. Take a small magnet with you, if it sticks to the conduit, its steel. The galvanized coating is an electronically charged dip process and should last for years, but the chance of it flaking off at some point down the road is a possibility. You can add an oil filter to your cooling system that would catch the flaking.
    Anything they may have used to pull the wires through would have been applied to the wire, not the conduit. New conduit should be as clean inside as the outside is, and it comes in 10' lengths around here. Gene
     
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  3. Clik
    Joined: Jul 1, 2009
    Posts: 1,965

    Clik
    Member

    Yes, what I was looking at was advertised as aluminum with an internal coating. They offered 1.5" but no 1.75".
     
  4. Clik
    Joined: Jul 1, 2009
    Posts: 1,965

    Clik
    Member

    Silicone seems a little pricey but if I could find it sold in long lengths it might be worth it.
     

  5. fortynut
    Joined: Jul 16, 2008
    Posts: 1,038

    fortynut
    Member

    There is aluminum tubing but, since we're talking coolant flowing through it, I would use copper plumber's tubing. You can sweat fittings on it to change direction, and to tap off water for a heater. All this is available at a plumber's supply. Maybe it will seem costly but that also depends on how you look at the bigger picture. I would run these so they won't be damaged by road debris, maybe create a guard to shield them, because crap on the freeways and surface streets is a problem, and accidents do happen. I assume you will use this same coolant for a heater if the vehicle is driven in winter, as mentioned, copper fittings that have smaller size outlets would be simple to add. Since I can't visualize what exactly you have in mind, it's hard to give much more than general advice. I have often thought of mounting a radiator in a different location and came to the conclusion that getting air into it and out, without effecting the overall envelope of the vehicle, is a challenge. Especially at higher speeds, as questions about buffeting and the affect it will create on handling. Most salt racers just run a big enough tank as to not to need air flow. Many modern open wheel race cars duct the air in from the side and out the back into the slip stream. A pickup or truck has issues of its own that are created by the bed sides, fenders and tailgate. No matter what, I would damn sure use at least two temperature gauges, one on the engine and the other in the area of the radiator where its maximum temperature is found, because you can't know too much about what's happening to the various components when they are functioning as a whole.
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2020
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  6. spanners
    Joined: Feb 24, 2009
    Posts: 2,073

    spanners
    Member

    Possibly wouldn't matter if internal diameter was smaller over that length. The coolant would be cooling as it's pumped along. Get the ends flared by a muffler shop to suit the radiator outlets.
     
  7. The kid at my shop uses exhaust pipe, and he found some kind of clamp on cooling fins that clamp around the pipe, (think baseboard hot water heater). He's running about 20ft of pipe, and about 4ft of these fins per side back to his radiator. Must work, since his blown BBC in his pickup never overheats, and he beats on it for hours on end on the dunes. Might be worth looking into.
     
  8. gnichols
    Joined: Mar 6, 2008
    Posts: 11,344

    gnichols
    Member
    from Tampa, FL

    Aluminum tubing versus copper costs? Lots of race cars use aluminum tubing thru the cockpit or in the frame with AN fittings welded on the ends for flex lines at either end for fuel, dry sump tanks, etc.. Brakets here and there can be welded on easily. Got a good bender for the big stuff?
     
  9. One issue you may face is the extra weight of water the pump will have to deal with as it adds a lot of extra resistance to the circulation. JW
     
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  10. I bought two lengths of 1 1/2" stainless tubing at a scrap yard. Can't run a fan with my blower drive, so I run a second radiator under the bed with an electric fan on it. Been over 20 years with no problems. Stock Chevy water pump moves the water just fine.
     
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  11. On an OT truck I have the engine in the bed and radiator up front.
    All fed thru 1.5"alloy tube and a stock LS3 waterpump.
    Never overheats and has been trouble free for 8 years.
     
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  12. SS Pete
    Joined: Jan 13, 2017
    Posts: 48

    SS Pete
    Member

    HI, a little suggestion, Pontiac Fiero from the 80s was the same setup. i see that people are stuffing v-8s back there. You might want to check out some of these sites for help. Good luck
     
  13. What about exhaust pipe and get the ends expanded to what you need ?
     
  14. Gearhead Graphics
    Joined: Oct 4, 2008
    Posts: 3,890

    Gearhead Graphics
    Member
    from Denver Co

    Yeah, seems youre overthinking it a lot.
    Ive got a bend in my lower hose on my unibody that a rubber hose couldnt do, so we slipped a hunk of aluminized exhaust tubing in. Has been in it for 10+ years. I had the motor out a while back and the tubing looked fine.

    My old boss was running a 500 k lakester at the salt. his "radiator" was the frame of the car. Front to back it held something like 20 gallons! no additional pump or fins. Cooled the motor just fine. His frame was steel and had no issues.

    Get some aluminized exhaust tubing bent, put a flex on each end and call it good.
     
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  15. Saxxon
    Joined: Dec 14, 2008
    Posts: 1,831

    Saxxon
    Member

    Mud and off road trucks have been doing this for a very long time. Flexible rubber / silicone at both ends with a hard line in between is the easy way to do it. Just make sure the hard line doesn't flex or vibrate so it doesn't crack / split.

    As stated earlier, don't over think this
     
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  16. Exhaust hose that length is available in various sizes from marine supply stores...
     
  17. Clik
    Joined: Jul 1, 2009
    Posts: 1,965

    Clik
    Member

    My concern with copper is that #1 it could react with the aluminum radiator and #2 the temperature range is pushing it for soldered joints. Brazing is an option but doesn't hold up well to vibration.
     
  18. 1971BB427
    Joined: Mar 6, 2010
    Posts: 8,717

    1971BB427
    Member
    from Oregon

    Schedule 40 aluminum conduit sizes wont quite line up, but close enough to work. The big issue is keeping the hoses on the conduit on each end under radiator pressure. 1 1/4" schedule 40 aluminum is 1.66" OD, so a 1.5" hose will clamp down on it fine. I'd want to have a bead rolled on the ends, or have a number of tig welds to form a bead so the hose wont push off under pressure.
    You can also go with galvanized EMT that is even closer in size. 1.5" EMT is 1.74" OD, and will usually have a slightly rougher external coating that will hold the hose better.
    Conduits are usually dry,, and the only coatings I ever ran across when working with it were oil film that wont hurt your radiator, or cooling systems. Can't imagine you've got all that far to run? Even with engine in the back, it might take 5'-6' per side to get to a hose transition at each end.
     
  19. Blues4U
    Joined: Oct 1, 2015
    Posts: 7,589

    Blues4U
    Member
    from So Cal

  20. jimmy six
    Joined: Mar 21, 2006
    Posts: 14,795

    jimmy six
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    1-1/4” on top and 1-1/2” bottom. EMT conduit.
     
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  21. Can aluminum tubing be stretched like exhaust tubing?
     
  22. nochop
    Joined: Nov 13, 2005
    Posts: 3,818

    nochop
    Member
    from norcal

    Copper tube for refrigeration is measured OD if that helps
     
  23. I've used steel exhaust tubing for years with good results. Where I live, antifreeze is mandatory. Corrosion has not been a problem.
     
  24. moparboy440
    Joined: Sep 30, 2011
    Posts: 1,087

    moparboy440
    Member
    from Finland

    ^This^ Lots of local offroad guys use hoses all the way when moving the radiator to the back.
     
  25. Wrench97
    Joined: Jan 29, 2020
    Posts: 679

    Wrench97

    Exhaust pipe will work fine as long as you paint the outside and keep coolant on the inside.
    It's weldable, bendable and you can get the ends expanded to the size you need.
     
  26. fortynut
    Joined: Jul 16, 2008
    Posts: 1,038

    fortynut
    Member

    Mister Clik, Like I said, there is so little pertinent information in the poster's original question, my suggestion was based on what I would do, and as such assumed a brass radiator would be used if only for its robustness and the fact it can repaired with a soldering iron, a plus when you consider that an aluminum radiator, once ruptured requires specialized equipment to repair, if it can be repaired at all. Since there was no indication this was a race only application, weight did not seem an issue. Brass is an alloy of copper, so incompatibility with the radiator would, of course be a non-issue. As to the solder used in sweating the joints for copper pipe to fittings, to my knowledge hot water in residential plumbing while not at or above the boiling point of water at 212 Degrees on the Fahrenheit scale does get quite hot and is engineered to fail at considerably higher temperatures as it is also used with solar heating that does get closer to the boiling point. In my research, I have found that sweating solder can be had that melts at 450 Degrees on the Fahrenheit scale. I seriously doubt the coolant would ever get that hot and still be of use in transferring heat from the engine to the cooling effect of airflow in the flues of a radiator. Should that be too low, silver solder could be substituted. Therefore, Sir, your assertion of the solder melting as an issue is not only absurd but ridiculous. One thing in your favor, to end on a sweet note, is the Oldsmobile Hardtop pictured in your avatar. It looks like a '56, even if the '55 is very similar. I certainly think of them as being a better choice, to those who can appreciate them, than the other Tri-Fives. I have very fond memories of being my grandfather's chauffeur when I was fourteen years old in his, then new, 88 Rocket sedan. It was quite different from the old Jeep pickup I learned to drive in, and with power brakes and power steering took a lot of finesse because of his health. Later on, I would take it out at night on the sly, using a complete ignition switch with a key, and in order to keep the odometer from telling on me, disconnected the speedometer cable and marked the fuel level with a grease pencil in order to know exactly how much fuel to put back in. And, yes, it became another of the many reasons I found myself, in the eighth grade in the first of two military schools. Even in those long ago days, as I remember the Rocket would certainly haul ass. The local Highway Patrolman caused my secret to be found out. He knew my grandfather and knew the car. And, if you remember the advertising jingle: 'This is not your grandfather's Oldsmobile'. Well it was!
     
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  27. Plumed an engine that was behind the cab and the radiator was behind the grill.
    Used aluminum tubing the same diameter as the hose fittings on the stock water pump.
    No issues.
    Porsche has done this for a long time.
    We used a bead roller to add a bead to hold and seal the hoses.
    Used an electric pump on another car that had the radiator behind the engine.
    C13CC2BC-789D-48CD-8C42-D02A90190F1E.jpeg
    Used this for the bead
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2020
  28. ^^^ This... EMT steel conduit is designed to be bent (with the right bender, although the radiuses will be pretty large), and has a zinc outer coating to resist corrosion. The inside is coated with baked enamel for ease of wire pulling. As long as there's no direct connection to aluminum you won't have electrolysis issues. You can even get steel water-tight compression fittings, although they're designed to keep water out, not in. A liberal application of sealer at each joint should fix that. If you use fittings, you can buy pre-bent elbows in various degrees, but again the radiuses won't be small.

    Stay away from aluminum electrical conduit. It's raw aluminum, not particularly corrosion resistant and pretty soft.

    PVC was mentioned. It's certainly tough enough and properly assembled won't leak, and smaller radius fittings are available. But it will need to be supported much more than metal as the coolant heat will tend to cause it to 'move'. Get a PVC heat-bending 'blanket' or 'stove' and it can be formed into almost any shape, so difficult routing can be addressed.
     
  29. Clik
    Joined: Jul 1, 2009
    Posts: 1,965

    Clik
    Member

    As you can see in the Copper Tube Handbook the temp ratings for soldered joints is close: https://www.copper.org/applications...onding,in Table 4 of the Copper Tube Handbook. I like a margin of safety. But that aside, I was checking on the compatibility of copper and the aluminum radiator that I mention in my OP and found that the galvanic reaction transmitted through the coolant can eat an aluminum radiator quickly.

    Update: I ordered some aluminum tubing from a local supplier who sounded unsure of my order so I'm hoping for the best. Hopefully I can bead it on my regular bead roller.

    Thanks to everyone for their experiences and opinions.
     
  30. gsjohnny
    Joined: Nov 27, 2007
    Posts: 241

    gsjohnny
    Member

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