Hot Rods SINGLE MASTER CYLINDER VERSES DUAL MASTER CYLINDER

The first thing I do when I buy a car I didn't build is go through the brakes. I always use a dual master cylinder because hoses, tubes, wheel cylinders, calipers and master cylinders can fail. I like having a logical backup plan.

My mantra is, "Stopping is more important than going." Make sure you can stop first, then work on the rest of the car.

 

What the hell man? it's a frigging word and your making a big deal out of it, Danny's not the kind of guy to tell you that you are being a ass.

He could have just as easily said confident, but he was giving props to 2 well respected members of the hamb that he feels have the cred's to us a single master cylinder.

 

Dual.

 

Duel!

 

Are you challenging me?
Pistols or sling shots?

 

The natives are restless tonight. HRP

 

If single is better it'd still be in use. Anything can fail, but at least with a dual you have somewhat of a backup. Most of us don't drive enough to worry about it, but I'll take a dual just in case.

 

Exactly. Brand new replacement wheel cylinders and calipers can blow out all of your brake fluid in just a few pumps leaving you with no ability to stop. Using a dual reservoir master cylinder is good insurance against injury and damage. As far as the duel, lawn darts at 20 paces.

 

This is an OPINION post from HRP on our thoughts on single or dual master cylinders. The entire Automotive auto industry switched to dual masters late 60's ? as a safety feature. In my post I used my experience on a line failure (All New Components) that led to total failure from fluid loss, IF I would have switched to a dual master I still would have the front brakes, that's why I stated I will have a dual master on any old car of mine. THAT'S my opinion, My car, My deal. If you hard core "Traditional " and want to run a single, more power to you, it's a free country Your car, Your deal. IMO it's foolish/stupid. I have no problem with hard core HAMB cars/guys. Opinions are like assholes, We All Have One, So....... why get so offended and upset over just another opinion, We All like cars, the hobby, that's the common ground and agree to disagree.

 

Lugnuts at 20 paces.
I’ll even remove my glasses.

 

All the testimonials & analogies nor any of the bravado / chest pounding will mean shit if you have a brake failure , having a slightly better chance of avoiding a complete failure & the possible outcome would probably sound pretty good to those who can no longer speak of their brake system failure .I can remember when I was young & invincible thinking ; " that won't happen to me " There are is none who are so blind as those who will not see .....

 

Well said Brother!

 

It had been a long, exciting day. Johnny and Linda were heading back to Mayville after the big annual car show. Johnny's nimble little roadster was making light work of the two lane highway that would take them home. Linda's head rested against Johnny's shoulder. Johnny's trophy rested on the seat beside them.

Johnny had traveled this road more times than he could count. He knew every curve, every bump, every dip. His friends and he had run their old jalopies up and down this road at speeds in excess of 80mph. Surely, the two teenagers would be safe at 70mph in his completely rebuilt hot rod. Johnny had taken the time to test and retest every single component. He considered himself to be exceedingly diligent and responsible with the workings of his car. No need for worry in this highly maintained chariot.

The roadster ran straight and true. Smooth as silk. With not a hint of protest as Johnny pressed harder on the foot feed. The shiny black vintage Ford jetted through the night and effortlessly made the needle on the speedometer jump to 80mph. Linda stirred slightly. "You're not going too fast, are you?" Johnny assured her. "Naw... it's a clear night and no traffic." Linda smiled to herself and cuddled even closer... and once again allowed her thoughts to slip away.

Johnny was actually amazed at the way the car was riding and handling since he had made all the changes. It felt so tight, yet so agile and responsive. He thought he was beginning to understand how it was possible that an Indianapolis race car could do 100mph around the curves and not go flying off the track. Yeah... his car was like that.

Johnny pushed the gas pedal a little closer to the floor. 90mph now. The road was smooth. Linda didn't stir. Johnny could see the lights of Mayville reflecting off the lake. There was one last big curve in the road, where it ran around the edge of the lake before straightening out and entering the small Metropolis. Johnny had enough time to get a little more speed out of the Roadster before slowing down to maneuver the curve. Again he pushed on the throttle. 95mph... 98... 100mph. "Wow", he thought, "And it does it so easily."

They were quickly approaching the lake, now. Johnny took his foot off the gas and placed it on the brake pedal. He put no pressure on the pedal yet, thinking that the engine and the gearing might slow the car enough. The guys would be impressed when he told them that he had taken Mayfield Lake curve at nearly 100mph.

But 100mph seemed a little fast, and Johnny was compelled to press the brake pedal just enough to scrub off 5 or 10mph. But something was wrong. He felt no resistance from the brakes. He easily pressed the pedal completely to the floor. In a panic, Johnny began frantically pumping the brakes.
Nothing.
Nothing!

It was too late to downshift. Too late to turn off the ignition. Too late even to use the emergency brake. The 2000 lb missile had already left the road.

The last thing that went through Johnny's mind, was the single chamber master cylinder...

... and the horrible realization that it failed even after a thorough rebuild.
For God's sakes... he even had it chrome plated...

 

You two deserve each other. Because his statement is wrong which makes you .....

 

You can inspect your vehicle every time you get in it, but that doesn't take away the fact that some crap in the road can't fly up and bust a hard line or hose and render your traditional hot rod's brakes as useless. A dual master doubles your chances of stopping safely, why take the gamble? As mentioned previously, you need to make sure you have the pedal travel to sufficiently actuate both bores and you're good to go. Hot rodding is all about making our cars better, faster, safer, cooler. Not necessarily in that order. LOL

 

Isn't it obvious who needs to settle this by dueling? And that my duel played off your dual?

 

Henry Gregor Felsen? I read that book probably 4 times in school. I just can’t remember the name of it.


Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app

 

Went in the 9's 1/4 mile with this car many times with a fruit jar master.
Just converted my 65 Comet to a dual pot master.

 

I’ve totally lost brake pressure in three or four cars in my lifetime. All due to brake line failures.
Each had a dual master cylinder.
All of them were stock setups from the factory.
Safer? I sometimes question that.
Redundancy is the safest measures.
I just wonder how many of us have emergency brakes?
I wouldn’t necessarily consider an extra cylinder in a brake system redundant.

 

So On my single seat project I wanted to use only old parts that that would have been used back in the day. Every screw that is used is a straight head, glass fuses and castle nuts, the newest mechanical part is from 1950. But I have two exceptions I buried an Led bulb in the tail light and I used a 67 mustang master cylinder.

 

I have an OT Model "A" Ford with mechanical brakes, my avatar has a single master cylinder, and my '49 Ford Bonneville Car has a dual master cylinder...……..I'm so confused!!!!!

 

Yes, Andy... LOL... basically, pure plagiarism of our long admired Mr. Felson and his handful of tragic teenage hot rod stories we've enjoyed. Hot Rod, Street Rod, Crash Club, etc.

I guess you could say I was making a point, but that wasn't my main purpose. My opinions aren't usually that strong one way or the other. I like to write sometimes and I guess I got inspired for a minute LOL. Just having a little fun.

 

Interesting...the cars that I've woken up after sleeping that long, have all the cylinders locked solid. And I live where it's dry. I guess you got really lucky, or maybe it hadn't really sat that long?

Even when all production cars had single cylinders, and folks decided it was wise to add some redundancy, almost all wrecks were caused by driver error, not mechanical failures. I still have far more scary moments because of my bad driving, than I do because of mechanical failures.

 

I've always thought the single master set up had a better feel to it but I always used the dual. I hear two single masters, one for rear and one for front is the ultimate..

 

I've had only one incident in a daily driver which ended in the front yard of a home. Since we are people who
are supposed to be innovative while building these cars, having a brake system which provides a higher level of safety for it's operator is a no brainer.

 

I was 18 years old. 1953 Ford pickup, original master and brake cylinders, lines, hoses. Drove it for a month or so after resurrecting the old flattie from a couple years of slumber. Had just driven from Emery SD to Nebraska for a beer run, dropped the case of beer in a nearby creek to keep it cool. Pulled into the driveway and right through the 18 foot wide fiberglass garage door. One of those old rubber lines finally gave up and left me with less pressure than I needed. Luckily the door flexed enough and popped out of the rails so I just had to bend a couple aluminum angles back into shape.

My '37 Buick still has a single master, the '56 New Yorker was converted to a tandem.

 

Upgrading as far as hot rodding has been going on forever. Though in my opinion this is a matter of safety and hasn't much to do with a traditional look. Yeah, I'm with you fellows in regards to anything can happen but I guess it's just like many guys who don't carry anything in case there is a fire. I always have that in my car too.

 

I have never experienced a single or dual master cylinder failure, I have had a wheel cylinder blow out but I caulked that up to lack of maintenance.

That was a long time ago, every winter I do a thorough inspection of my brake system, check the wheel cylinders and brake lines for leaks, the brake pads & I grease the wheel bearings. HRP

 

Checking. Inspecting ,etc are all good things , unless you also have a crystal ball to consult you have no way of being assured of what might happen .