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Technical Battery cable lugs

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by blowby, Oct 5, 2020.

  1. blowby
    Joined: Dec 27, 2012
    Posts: 8,661

    blowby
    Member
    from Nicasio Ca

    0 cable. terms.jpg I don't have hydraulic crimpers. Got V blocks maybe I could crunch in a vice, or something.

    What about solder? Fill the lug with hot solder, stick the cable in? Or stick the lug on first, heat the back end and try to wick the solder in? Propane?
     
  2. Stick the lug onto the wire. Use a round punch and hit it with a hammer. Fill with solder.
    Are buy are borrow a crimp tool that does this the same way.
     
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  3. leon bee
    Joined: Mar 15, 2017
    Posts: 798

    leon bee
    Member

    Or buy some solder pellets. Don't need to crimp it.
     
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  4. I've soldered the ends on since my grandpa taught me how to do it. HRP
     

  5. 51504bat
    Joined: May 22, 2010
    Posts: 4,755

    51504bat
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Use one of these or just solder the lug on. Either way slide some shrink tubing over the cable first and heat it with a heat gun for a clean looking cable. cable1.jpg cable2.jpg cable3.jpg
     
  6. I'd use a mechanical lug before trusting one that's been soldered. The problems with solder is 1. It makes the copper brittle at the solder/wire junction, so broken wire strands can result. And 2. If you ever do have an issue at that joint and it gets hot, solder will start 'moving' at temps as low as 400 degrees and the wire can come out of the connector.

    Solder joints have been illegal in electrical installations for over 70 years... They went out with knob-and-tube wiring.

    $42, problem solved... https://www.amazon.com/Hydraulic-Battery-Terminal-Crimper-Crimping/dp/B06XR8BY65
     
  7. leon bee
    Joined: Mar 15, 2017
    Posts: 798

    leon bee
    Member

    That wasn't a very useful reply. I should have said: it's good to have some solder pellets in your collection for next time. And some good liquid flux.
     
  8. Boneyard51
    Joined: Dec 10, 2017
    Posts: 6,440

    Boneyard51
    Member

    29D86230-DC55-4E9B-A313-56622EFDE4A4.jpeg I have connected hundreds upon hundreds of battery cable for over fifty years. Many of the vehicles I dealt with had six batteries!
    The first thing is to select the right size lug. Your cable should fit very snug in the lug. I then slip several sections of properly sized heavy heat shrinks up over the cable. I then insert the cable into the lug and crimp it with my lever action cable crimper. Then I clamp the lug on the very edge in my vice and using a torch , for quick heat fill any void left when it was crimped with solder... until it flows over the top or at least near the top. I let it cool then slide one heat shrink over the connection and skrink it , then another one, then a red one if it’s a positive cable.
    Apparently this is not the proper way to do it, but I never had a failure with this method.








    Bones
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2020
  9. Budget36
    Joined: Nov 29, 2014
    Posts: 13,174

    Budget36
    Member

    Solder pills been working on my MM35 for 20+ years without an issue. Not discounting your knowledge, just my experience
     
  10. I've seen really terrible crap work for 20+ years with no issues, and stuff that looked 'almost' right blow up the first it was energized, electricity can be very fickle. For myself, I do it right the first time, that way no worries down the road... YMMV...
     
  11. Budget36
    Joined: Nov 29, 2014
    Posts: 13,174

    Budget36
    Member

    I feel you. (not like that). I think those that don’t solder correctly are the issue. Same as those who don’t crimp correctly.
     
  12. olscrounger
    Joined: Feb 23, 2008
    Posts: 4,770

    olscrounger
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I crimp and press the lug with an old overhead line press-then shrinkon tubing over lug--have done 100's with no issues. I have seen the indent ones fail over time. Have done on cars, tractors etc etc.
     

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  13. That's very much how I do it. I use a different crimper, but otherwise the same. Never a failure that I'm aware of, some 30 years in service.
     
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  14. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 55,941

    squirrel
    Member

    I can't recall ever having a production crimped battery cable fail...without solder.

    If you do solder it, you need to get the wire hot enough to melt the solder, if you want it to actually stick.
     
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  15. indcontrols
    Joined: May 29, 2013
    Posts: 102

    indcontrols
    Member

    I have a hydraulic crimper, but a dull nut splitter works too...


    Sent from my iPhone using H.A.M.B.
     
  16. E9B6D801-D56A-4817-8426-3635E6B7BAC4.jpeg


    I got this big bastard I use at work all the time.

    ive seen shitty crimps of all kinds fail, I’ve seen even more shitty solder joints fail as well.

    working in the dealerships, they outlawed soldering as a repair.
    I don’t think because solder is a shitty connection , but it’s more prone to human error then a mechanical crimp.

    I shake my head , as again . At the dealer with dealer supplied crimps and matching crimping tool people still where capable of screwing up and having loose and or shitty connections.

    just an FYI most forklift and industrial Batteties have soldered ends, and these things have hundred of amps running through them all the time and get used hard.
    Connections of any kind have to do with the person making that connection and if they understand what they are trying to accomplish.

    it’s a little more then just “ HULK SMASH WIRE.... GRRRRR “!
     
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  17. '34 Terraplane
    Joined: Jul 11, 2011
    Posts: 373

    '34 Terraplane
    Member
    from Western PA

  18. slim38
    Joined: Dec 27, 2015
    Posts: 619

    slim38
    Member
    from Sudan TX
    1. H.A.M.B. Chapel

    I crimped my on vise with a small bolt and then hit it with a small punch and shrink wrapped. Worked great
     
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  19. jimmy six
    Joined: Mar 21, 2006
    Posts: 14,799

    jimmy six
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Blowby is showing welding cable. I would use solder if I had it and no crimper. I would tin the cable first with a lot of paste same with the copper lug he shows. After I would heat shrink cover them.
    For silvered lugs I would crimp. Working in a power plant for over 45 years and did them both depending on the application up to 15KV. Both will serve you well if done correctly. I would still heat shrink 12v connections for a seal.
     
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  20. Bones, you must be a belt and suspenders sort of guy.... LOL.

    I've never seen a properly-done crimp fail, but the key word is properly. Those inexpensive hydraulic crimpers should be in every HAMBers shop for this sort of thing. Keep in mind that most common solder alloys melt at between 360 and 390 degrees F (you may need more heat than that to get a proper bond) which isn't that hot. Which I found out to my dismay when I tried to use it to fix imperfections prior to powdercoating. If it didn't just flat run off, it would sag badly.
     
  21. I have only ever soldered them
     
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  22. BamaMav
    Joined: Jun 19, 2011
    Posts: 6,709

    BamaMav
    Member
    from Berry, AL

    I just bash them with a big hammer, like a neanderthal would.
     
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  23. Bought mine at the swapmeet decades ago for $5, but amazon and other online places have a bunch. $12-$40

    [​IMG]
     
  24. upspirate
    Joined: Apr 15, 2012
    Posts: 2,299

    upspirate
    Member

  25. the parts store I buy my lugs from will crimp the lugs on. I did this for years before I bought my own crimper tool.
     
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  26. I soldered the ends on the welding cable for the trunk mounted battery in my Willys. Has worked fine for 50 years, only has to go another few years 'til they haul me to Trembling Hills. It's like just about everything in the construction of a hot rod; pretty much all dependent on the skill of the builder.
     
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  27. nrgwizard
    Joined: Aug 18, 2006
    Posts: 2,516

    nrgwizard
    Member
    from Minn. uSA

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  28. jimmy six
    Joined: Mar 21, 2006
    Posts: 14,799

    jimmy six
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

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  29. Boneyard51
    Joined: Dec 10, 2017
    Posts: 6,440

    Boneyard51
    Member

    Steve, when I took over maintenance of a fleet of fire trucks, in February of 1979, the previous mechanic was a “ scotch-loc” guy. I spent my first year removing them and soldering wire connections.
    Soldering is an art.
    1: the wires must be CLEAN, shinny clean.
    2: use good solder. I bought mine at Radio Shack. Different quality of solder will give different quality of joint.
    3: use the right tool to produce the heat. I have many things I use to heat solder. From a small pencil electric heater to my torch and in between.
    4: technic is critical. When things are right the solder will “ jump” onto the wire, and it will be quick. I usually let the iron get hot, then touch the wire, put a drop of solder on the iron so that it melts and runs down to the wire and makes contact. This contact will heat the wire quickly and when the wire reaches the right temp, the solder will flow into the joint. Doing it this way lessens the distance you heat the wire.
    5: after the connection cover it with a HIGH quality heat-skrink. I usually put two heat- shrinks on the connection. I use about two inches of heat-shrink for the first one and about three inches for the top one. ( when I have room). This makes a very nice appearing joint. This also supports the wire and connection.
    6: alway make a good mechanical connection before soldering. That is crimp terminals and I twist wires, similar to the “ Western-Union” twist.

    These are the methods I use on wire 22 gauge and up to 00 gauge. I used 0 and 00 welding lead for my battery cables. It’s amazing how much juice you can loose in small wires.

    Steve, I guess I am a “ belt and suspenders” guy. I had to be, in my productive years my equipment had to work. Lives depended upon my equipment getting to the scene and working properly.
    I did it my way! Might not have been the “ right” way. But back then, all this information was not as easily available as it is now.
    I never knew that soldering joints was “ outlawed “until you informed me after my retirement. Maybe it was outlawed due too many unskilled Technications.
    In my 33 1/2 years on the job, I never ever had one of my connections fail, but I did have many “ factory “ crimps fail. My trucks were a little different that hot rods as they were washed every day, sometimes more and when they worked they worked with water. And one fire truck has as much wiring as probably 20 hot rods.
    We all know water and electricity don’t get along!
    I brought my knowledge gained on the job to my hobby.






    Bones
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2020
  30. Truck64
    Joined: Oct 18, 2015
    Posts: 5,325

    Truck64
    Member
    from Ioway

    Shitty crimps probably aren't any better than shitty solder, but the fact is nobody uses solder for high current, low voltage connections in any equipment as far as I know. Not from the factory anyway. Lots of high speed low drag $$$ test equipment and aerospace stuff uses crimping, solder is a whole nuther ball of wax and has been the cause for lots of problems. One of the problems with soldering is high vibration environments. More recent is the required use of lead-free solder. Oops.

    If you look at a cross section of a proper cable terminal crimp, the individual strands are no longer identifiable, it just looks like a solid mass of metal. There isn't really even anything to solder. The joint itself is completely air tight and water tight, impervious to oxygen, even.

    The el-cheapo blister pac junk battery cables with junk lead terminals that deform on the the first use (from you know where) come soldered at both ends. The high quality cables are always crimped, using solid copper terminals with a zinc plating.
     
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