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1940 Plymouth Project, First ever Project car

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by CarDoctor886, Sep 13, 2020.

  1. CarDoctor886
    Joined: Sep 13, 2020
    Posts: 11

    CarDoctor886

    Hello, First time posting and first going to attempt a restore or Mod, not sure, I’m 30 been a technician since I could walk, and as a career for about 11 years , I have wanted to do a family car project with my wife and kids, I have never attempted anything so bold and old, I’m skilled in 1985+, I was able to pickup a 1940 Plymouth deluxe(at least I’m told) for next to nothing, is going to be dropped off at my house tomorrow, I have been told it starts and runs , don’t know if it drives, has brand new fuel tank and carburetor, my question is, what direction do I go with this thing and where do I start?[​IMG]
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  2. Papas32
    Joined: Feb 18, 2009
    Posts: 164

    Papas32
    Member
    from No.Ia.

    Get it running and stopping safely and take the wife and kids for a ride!
     
  3. scrap metal 48
    Joined: Sep 6, 2009
    Posts: 6,079

    scrap metal 48
    Member

    Cool project.. Is that a 54 Packard next to it in the garage???
     
  4. Rusty O'Toole
    Joined: Sep 17, 2006
    Posts: 9,657

    Rusty O'Toole
    Member

    Start by cleaning the car up. Don't throw away any odd bits of metal or rubber you find, save them all in a box along with any car parts. The loose parts might be a clue as to why the car was retired, if you find new brake parts for example, chances are the car was taken off the road to do the brakes. Those odd bits and screws will turn out to be some irreplacable part. You don't want to find that out after you throw them away. You can throw away the dried out ballpoint pens and McDonald's wrappers.

    Next go over the car and figure out what it needs. Brakes, tires, upholstery, etc. Make a list. This gets back to your plans for the car. Restoration or hot rod or what? Looks like you may have a decent survivor. And, they came with fairly decent brakes, suspension, engine etc for the time. I would look at getting it running and on the road safely if possible then figure out where you want to go after you drive it for a while.

    The engine runs, warm it up and check the compression and oil pressure. A perfect engine will have 120 lbs compression on all cylinders and 30 pounds oil pressure at 30 MPH. If you have 75 or 80 and 10 lbs at idle you have enough to be going along with. Don't be alarmed if you have no compression on one or more cylinders, valves get stuck open when an engine sits for a long time and flatheads are especially prone to this.

    Once you have an idea what the car needs you can map out a plan and start ordering parts. Luckily, most parts for your car are easily available and not expensive. I mean things like brakes, engine parts etc. Body sheet metal, chrome and trim are a different story.

    You might want to clean off that white house paint. The original green may not be too bad. The white will have to come off anyway because you can't paint over it.

    That car looks like a really solid, rust free survivor. It may be you can fix it up and put it on the road without too much trouble. As this is your first project I strongly recommend you do not attempt too much. Get it running, get all systems functioning to factory specs drive it around and enjoy it.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2020

  5. Rusty O'Toole
    Joined: Sep 17, 2006
    Posts: 9,657

    Rusty O'Toole
    Member

    Get the factory repair manual and if possible, parts manual. You will be glad you did, a thousand times before you are done.
     
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  6. CarDoctor886
    Joined: Sep 13, 2020
    Posts: 11

    CarDoctor886

    Thanks everyone for the input , I was actually able to pick it up today, we are about 5 miles away from having it in my garage , so I’m excited to get going on it, and to the gentleman who asked about the packard, it’s a 51 that belongs to my father in laws brother


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  7. hotrodjack33
    Joined: Aug 19, 2019
    Posts: 4,128

    hotrodjack33
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    This will probably be of absolutely no help to you...but I picked up this '40 Plymouth 2 door in a trade back in the late 1990s. Someone had cut the sedan roof off, so I built a wooden buck and laid up a fiberglass roof for it.
    Certainly NOT the direction you should take with your new project...but just wanted show that there are endless possibilities...:D ply1.jpg ply2.jpg
     
  8. rockable
    Joined: Dec 21, 2009
    Posts: 4,429

    rockable
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Inspect the wiring, as well. These old cars came with fabric covered wire. It gets old and will literally fall apart if you touch it, plus mice love to chew on it. You don't want an electrical short ruining your fun AFTER you make sure you have good brakes. Stopping is more important than going!
     
  9. 31Apickup
    Joined: Nov 8, 2005
    Posts: 3,367

    31Apickup
    Member

    If your not familiar with cars that old, Several things to look into, Chrysler products used left hand thread lug nuts on one side. Also check and see if that year was positive or negative ground.


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  10. Budget36
    Joined: Nov 29, 2014
    Posts: 13,174

    Budget36
    Member

    After you get it mechanically and electrically all worked out, Id be leaning towards a family cruiser.
     
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  11. 58 Mustang
    Joined: Sep 4, 2020
    Posts: 38

    58 Mustang

    Those old Plymouths are great cars. Parts are everywhere. For years they were overlooked because everyone wanted a Ford or a Chevy
     
  12. Slopok
    Joined: Jan 30, 2012
    Posts: 2,919

    Slopok
    Member

    It's already got Blue Dots!:cool:
     
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  13. Los_Control
    Joined: Oct 7, 2016
    Posts: 1,125

    Los_Control
    Member
    from TX

    These old flathead 6's were good running motors.

    they made them up into the 70's for all to use.
    They are, is , were good motors. They were all 6 volt positive ground ... unless someone changed it.
    I agree with others, enjoy it as is ... modify a little at a time as life passes.
     
    chryslerfan55 and hotrodharry2 like this.
  14. j hansen
    Joined: Dec 22, 2012
    Posts: 5,217

    j hansen
    Member

    Nice car.Make it running and stopping.
     
    hotrodharry2 likes this.
  15. CarDoctor886
    Joined: Sep 13, 2020
    Posts: 11

    CarDoctor886

    I have it home now, I guess it needs a starter, idk if they were jumping it with a 12v and fried the starter, and they told me it needs a coil, picked up a coil today, haven’t been able to locate a starter and I have a battery coming, want to get it running and see how the drivetrain is, it was rough to push it into the garage, didn’t roll very smooth like something is seized, also the interior is completely destroyed, do any of you know of best route to go on the interior? I would like to make it safe and drivable and have the interior at least decent to sit in? What are your thoughts? [​IMG]
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  16. goldmountain
    Joined: Jun 12, 2016
    Posts: 4,442

    goldmountain

    Look up cold war motors on YouTube. Those guys have lots of videos on starting up all sorts of old cars.

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  17. ol-nobull
    Joined: Oct 16, 2013
    Posts: 1,655

    ol-nobull
    Member

    Hi & welcome. That is the same engine that I have in my 50 Plymouth Deluxe. You can double check as there were engines with 23" heads for Plymouth and Dodge and 25" head engines for Chrysler and Desoto. Mine will be done and back on the road by mid week.
    Below I will share my parts sources that I have used and bought a bunch from them with NO problems.
    www.faxtonautolit.com for owners and shop manuals.
    www.kanter.com for body, engine & chassis parts including brakes. I believe they are the ones who list seat covers in the 40's - 50's style also.
    www.robertsmotorparts.com for lots of body, chassis and engine parts.
    We redid all brakes, replaced tranny seal, rebuilt the engine 0.030 over and new water & oil pump, etc. It is now a great running ride and easily does trips at 60 - 65 MPH with no problems or overheating.
    You do not show your location but I see a Utah plate on the 40. If nearby I know where there is likely a FREE 41 4 door parts car and another that the entire chassis & running gear has been rebuilt (Not free but likely very reasonable). Owner was rebuilding as an AACA tour car and had a massive heart attack and shut it down. He bought a mid 70's ride with ac and still participates in it. I play dominoes with him every other week. Good luck with the build. Jimmie
     
  18. F-ONE
    Joined: Mar 27, 2008
    Posts: 3,271

    F-ONE
    Member
    from Alabama

    The best advice I can give you is to have,

    Realistic Expectations.

    1. In the car.
    2. In your ability.
    3. In your practical ability.
    4. In your time. (see #3)
    5. In your budget. (see #3)
    6. In your enthusiasm (see #3)
    7. In the space required (see #3)
    8. In the support system.... yourself, family, wife and kids....your/their patience, support and lack thereof. (See 1. 2. 3. 4. 5. 6. and 7.
     
  19. CarDoctor886
    Joined: Sep 13, 2020
    Posts: 11

    CarDoctor886

    Thanks for the links, I have been looking for decent suppliers and wasn’t having much luck, and I am in Utah, I’m new to forums and learning how to use them , wi update my location


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  20. F-ONE
    Joined: Mar 27, 2008
    Posts: 3,271

    F-ONE
    Member
    from Alabama

    Why do you think it needs a starter? The starter may be fine. The problem may be wiring, connections, corrosion and things mechanically locked up...good but seized up. The problem may just be connections. Also the starter can be serviced. All it may need is disassembly and cleaning.

    Go slow with this. You have a long way to go before that. Worry about oiling that engine up and simply getting it to turn.

    Likely the drums are rusty and shoes may be stuck. The fact that it can roll at all is a good sign.

    Get some dust masks, gloves, bags and cleaners. No Bleach! ( not only does bleach react to the ammonia in rodent feces and urine, it oxidizes and rusts metal.
    All that pillowy stuff in the headliner is a rats nest. No joke it is a bio hazzard. All that needs to be cleaned out.

    Easily accomplished.o_O Really it can be.
    Just take your time and set small goals. Goal #1....Remove the biohazards and get it clean. This is a job for you and you alone. (getting rid of the Nasty and disposing of it) The wife and kids do not need to be around it until it's clean....
    Clean as in not getting the Black Death if they breath around it.
    As you go through the nasty, save the hardware you find...bag it.
    Save the seat frames springs and all that stuff. It can be recovered and restored.

    Buy the factory manuals for the car, especially the Shop Manual. Old Motors Manuals are great too.
    Get the car as clean as you can. It's a real pleasure to work on clean stuff and in a clean area.
    Keep all the small parts. Keep all the headliner bows. Keep the seats and the springs. You do not have to strip them bare.
    Don't be too quick about replacing hard parts like starters and generators. All this stuff can be service and repaired. This is why you need those manuals.
    This car can be very drivable, reliable and enjoyable as built in 1940, even with 6 volts. I say this because you may hear how easy it to re engine it...add disc brakes and so on and so on.
    Going back stock original gives you a direction to go. It's very easy to get sidetracked and loose vision and enthusiasm.
    Once you get into good condition stock, them you can do hop up stuff.
    The first step in hot rodding, is to get it running perfectly in stock form. That's the foundation, then you build upon that.
     
  21. Cool fog lights! Always liked the front ends on those Plymouths. Follow the steps laid out by @Rusty O'Toole and others and you'll get there.
     
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  22. sevenhills1952
    Joined: Mar 14, 2018
    Posts: 956

    sevenhills1952

    I like all the replies. It really is in great condition considering it's 80 years old! It looks to be complete and stock, so hard to find these days. Yes, running, stopping, cleaning.
    Very nice car.

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  23. Rusty O'Toole
    Joined: Sep 17, 2006
    Posts: 9,657

    Rusty O'Toole
    Member

    Left hand threads on the left side wheel bolts and positive ground six volt electrics, but you already knew that. The bolt heads are marked L and R, you can't always depend on them being where they are supposed to be, occasionally hubs get swapped over the years.
    One good thing is, on a car like that, everything can be rebuilt or repaired. They are not throw away cars like you get today. For the starter, you must have good cables, they are twice the size of the ones on today's cars, and they must be in good condition and the ends clean and tight. 6 v systems are more prone to corrosion resistance than 12v.
    You can take the starter apart, clean it, oil the bearings and bendix drive and it should be good as new. As long as the brushes are not worn down to below the top of the holder, and the commutator is not all chewed and rutted. If badly worn it may need new bearings and the commutator turned as well as new brushes. But often cleaning and freeing up the brushes does the trick. And if everything else is good the brushes are easy to replace. Worst case, take it to the local auto electric shop for a rebuild. Ask the local old car hobbyists who they use.
    Don't trust the gas tank unless you know it is new or has been cleaned out. Run off a gas can or bottle. You probably do not need new coil, points, spark plugs or anything like that to get it running. The points can be cleaned with 600 wet or dry paper or a points file, adjusted if necessary, spark plugs can be cleaned and gapped. If I was there I could have that motor eating out of my hand in a few hours and 9 times out of 10 no new parts required. If you have a little hand held spot blaster you can sandblast the spark plugs. If you get it running and the engine checks out good you can do a complete tuneup later. My policy is to change nothing until I test it and know it needs to be replaced or repaired. If you start tearing things apart at random you get in a mess, and have to start over and check everything from scratch. Check and diagnose first, and fix only what needs fixing until you get it running and know where you stand.
    I second the vote of confidence in Cold War Motors. Back yard geniuses who have revived many old jalopies like yours. Don't let Scott's casual approach fool you, he really knows what he is doing as you can tell if you watch him fabricating and welding in new sheet metal panels from scratch, as on his 1960 Plymouth Fury project.
     
  24. Rusty O'Toole
    Joined: Sep 17, 2006
    Posts: 9,657

    Rusty O'Toole
    Member

    It will do no harm to put in a 12v battery to start and run the engine. I have done this many times. DO NOT grind and grind the starter, it can overheat, run the starter for 5 or 10 seconds and let it cool down. If you get it running do not let it run for more than 15 or 20 minutes or the coil can overheat. This is long enough to warm up the motor and see if it will idle down, and do a compression test.
    One thing you should know, if you fill it with water for testing purposes, the block does not drain out when you drain the radiator. There are pipe plugs on the left side of the block to drain it. If you don't know this, and it freezes, it can crack the block badly.
     
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  25. HuskerNation
    Joined: Dec 28, 2010
    Posts: 337

    HuskerNation

    Lots of good helpful advice from others so my focus is a little bit different. I’ve just gotten my 37 Hudson coupe on the road after almost 20 years sitting idle, but it took about 4 years. It took so long because at the same time I was repairing it I was learning the skills to do so. Additionally knowledge on old 30’s Hudson’s is dying with each old timer that passes.

    The biggest advice I can offer is 1) don’t assume the owners did things right previously. 2) trust your gut, if you think something isn’t right, it probably isn’t so keep searching for the answers. 3) don’t think you’ll be able to just do a fix here & there & it will be on the road. Often one thing leads to 6 others. 4) Know your limits, when you get frustrated take a break. Depending on your skill level & work needed on the old girl, it can sometimes be a long road or a road you travel back & forth many times.

    Finally remember the guys here are pretty darn good guys & if you need help, advice or to vent, there’s lots of guys to talk to!



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  26. CarDoctor886
    Joined: Sep 13, 2020
    Posts: 11

    CarDoctor886

    Thank you everyone for the input , I can’t get enough of them, first thing I’ll do it get to town on the interior and clear it of biohazard, second step is to put in a battery and see where I am at ,

    The reason I believe that starter is faulty is because the guy I bought it from said they burnt it out getting the engine running, and they said coil was bad but I haven’t tested it yet , they said the engine was rebuilt in like 95 and ran for a few years until being parked until about 5 months ago, this father and son team installed a brand new fuel tank and lines, new fuel pump and new carburetor, new spark plugs, there is a new distributor cap in the car but not installed, so I have no idea on points condition, they showed me videos of it running as recent as 2 weeks ago, but the videos looked like they were filmed with a Nokia so it was hard to gauge engine running quality , I’m going to take some more detailed pics of engine bay and wiring and new components to see if there is any suggestions, but I’ve only had it for 24 hours and I’m in the super excited phase and have enjoyed hearing everyone’s input


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  27. Rusty O'Toole
    Joined: Sep 17, 2006
    Posts: 9,657

    Rusty O'Toole
    Member

    Sellers say all kinds of things and 9 times out of 10 they are wrong. I listen to what they say but verify for myself. Most likely they are confused, don't remember correctly, are going by what their dumb neighbor said, made a wild ass guess, etc.
    Incidentally, 40 years ago I helped a guy get an old car running. He bought a new coil because the seller said it was bad. Turns out he didn't need it, the old coil was fine. I still have that new coil around here someplace, in 40 years of working on old heaps never had to replace a coil to get one going. But lots of guys have thought they needed one.
    If someone has been monkeying with the motor best check everything, points gap, timing, spark plugs, gaps, and firing order. Those motors are easy to get the plug wires on wrong especially #3 and 4.
    There is a trick worth knowing when it comes to timing a flathead Chrysler product. There is a pipe plug in the head, over the #6 piston. You can take out the plug, drop a screwdriver down the hole and feel the piston rise and fall as you turn the engine by hand. Should turn easily with the plugs out until you find TDC. Since the #1 and #6 piston rise and fall together this gives you TDC of #1. The woosh of air tells you it is on the compression stroke. If the timing marks are not visible TDC will be close enough to get it running.
    I don't like to use a plain wire to find TDC because it can fall down into the cylinder. If you use a wire bend it into a T shape.
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2020
  28. CarDoctor886
    Joined: Sep 13, 2020
    Posts: 11

    CarDoctor886

    Alright, got home and took some more detailed pictures to show what I am working with.[​IMG]
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  29. CarDoctor886
    Joined: Sep 13, 2020
    Posts: 11

    CarDoctor886

    A few more[​IMG]
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  30. Rusty O'Toole
    Joined: Sep 17, 2006
    Posts: 9,657

    Rusty O'Toole
    Member

    As far as upholstery goes that is a big deal on its own, to get it redone. A good upholsterer can work wonders. If you or your wife have sewing skills you could learn to do it yourself.
    In any case DO NOT discard any of the old interior. I know your dumb neighbor thinks you can stick some junkyard seats in there. He is wrong.
    What I have done is buy the back seat out of a junkyard, peel off the fabric and foam rubber and hog ring it onto an old seat frame. It made a surprisingly good job. At the time I was only trying to keep a 1960 Ford pickup on the road cheap, as a go to work vehicle but the seat looked great. The reason for picking a back seat was, they have the least wear. I measured and found one close to the same size and stuck in a little extra padding here and there. Might be something to save you getting poked in the ass by springs while working on the car.
     

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