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Technical Hurst Shifter Body Interchange

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by lewk, Sep 11, 2020.

  1. lewk
    Joined: Apr 8, 2011
    Posts: 1,008

    lewk
    Member
    from Mt

    I'm trying to get my 60 El Camino together quickly for next spring and I have a 3 ring Saginaw 4 speed out of a Monza that I want to use for now until I get a Muncie or a T-10 together. The factory Monza shifter is kinda cheesy and I'm redoing the floors right now anyway so I want to put a Hurst in there. They have gotten expensive so I only want to buy once. When I change to a better transmission, I want to be able to reuse some parts. I've been through the Hurst Catalogue trying to make sense of Competition Plus part numbers. I get that there are different bolt on shifter arms and installation kits.

    I want to know if the shifter body itself is the same between Saginaw, Muncie, and T-10.

    If not, what is the difference?

    Thanks for the help. It's hard to get the details right just looking at picture on the auction site.
     
  2. DDDenny
    Joined: Feb 6, 2015
    Posts: 19,138

    DDDenny
    Member
    from oregon

  3. saltflats
    Joined: Aug 14, 2007
    Posts: 12,592

    saltflats
    Member
    from Missouri

    Shifter body will be the same, the linkage, levers and mount bracket will be different.
     
  4. lewk
    Joined: Apr 8, 2011
    Posts: 1,008

    lewk
    Member
    from Mt

    Thank you. Unfortunately most of those charts have a shifter "kit" that includes a mechanism, a handle, and a knob. I want to know if the mechanisms are all basically the same. I can use, make, or modify a handle and I already know I'll need a different install kit for different transmissions.


    Thanks, this is what I needed to know before I start buying mismatched parts of the auction site. I was worried the hole pattern on the body would be different or the arms coming out of the bottom of the mechanism might change.
     

  5. Vic Walter
    Joined: Jan 21, 2018
    Posts: 150

    Vic Walter
    Member

    GM and other's did put Hurst shifters in at the factory. I think it unlikely though with the Saginaw. Hurst is stamped in the driver's side of the body. Along with some US Patent numbers. I recently rebuilt a Hurst shifter that is from a 80's chevy truck with a NP440 trans. Like DDENNY posted, shifterdoc.com is a good source of info and parts for Hurst shifters. The plate between the shifter body and the tail housing will vary application to application, but the one that works for you on the Saginaw should also work on the T-10 / Muncie, all those GM trans have similar form factor dimensions. The mount plate I have is from the chevy pickup (mounts the shifter higher and more forward) Here is a couple of pictures of what I have.

    np440-07.jpg np440-08.jpg
     
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  6. 5speeds.com has good inf also, especially his youtube vides.
     
    lewk likes this.
  7. The H-body (Vega, Monza and other GM variants) Saginaw 4 speeds did not have their shifters mounted on the trans extension housing. The casting had the mounting bosses but they were not drilled and tapped for the shifter bolts. The original shifters were mounted to the floor pan or tunnel somehow.

    If this is the only difference between the H-body extension and the one used on the other car lines you could probably drill and tap the mounting bosses and attach any Saginaw 4 speed shifter. Or swap on an extension from a non-H body Saginaw trans, providing that everything else is the same. Check that the speedo drive is in the right place and that you have any other mounting holes in the right places if you need them. And you might want to make sure that the shift levers on the side cover are laid out the same way.
     
    lewk likes this.
  8. lewk
    Joined: Apr 8, 2011
    Posts: 1,008

    lewk
    Member
    from Mt

    Here’s the factory shifter, trans, and tunnel bracket. I just don’t want to set my El Camino’s floor up for this thing, especially if I change to a different trans later.

    IMG_7447.JPG

    IMG_7448.JPG

    IMG_7449.JPG

    It looks like the bosses are tapped on the trans. The parts are obviously not sitting in the El Camino.


    Sent from my iPhone using H.A.M.B.
     
  9. Looks like you're ahead of the game already then. ;) Maybe not out of a Monza originally? Does it have a crazy-low first gear in it? o_O Maybe like a 3.10 or something close?
     
    lewk likes this.
  10. jimmy six
    Joined: Mar 21, 2006
    Posts: 14,799

    jimmy six
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I’ve got a few Hursts. Only difference is whether they have bolt on handles. All of them needed a plate that bolted to the trans. I’ve bought them at swap meets and e-bay. I’ve made rods with clevises and cold rolled rods from a hardware store. All the Saginaws I’ve used had the bosses for the plates. The Hursts fit any of them, maybe not perfect but were fine. I don’t race or yank them and the work great.
    I just finished one for a new Richmond T-10 out of 30-40 year old parts. Some I bought off e-bay for parts. Good luck
     
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  11. Vic Walter
    Joined: Jan 21, 2018
    Posts: 150

    Vic Walter
    Member

    Using the parts you have would get the El Camino on the road the soonest.
    Fab up a plate that would bolt to the tail housing of the Saginaw you have. Take a cut off wheel to the shifter you have, whittle it down some and weld it to the plate. Mod the arms to fit. Having it on the road and driving will be it's own reward. Take your time and continue to piece together the Muncie/T10/Hurst. When that is done R&R it into the El is a easy job. The Saginaw will be worth more with a shifter, let the next guy put a Hurst on it.
     
    lewk likes this.
  12. lewk
    Joined: Apr 8, 2011
    Posts: 1,008

    lewk
    Member
    from Mt

    Follow ups are nice. It took 3 auctions, but the auction site got me all set for well under the cost of new. I’m short one bolt and a spacer. That’s easy though. I’ll stuff it in the El Camino and do my tunnel soon. Thanks again for all the help.

    [​IMG]




    Sent from my iPhone using H.A.M.B.
     
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  13. Mr48chev
    Joined: Dec 28, 2007
    Posts: 33,861

    Mr48chev
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Cool, it looks like you just about have it covered.

    Back years ago when things were a bit simpler You went in and bought the complete shifter with handle,brackets and shift rods for your vehicle (or the application that fit what you wanted to do) and installed it. I think mine was about 180 around 1980. Now you buy the shifter with or without handle then by the "installation kit" to fit the application and either costs more than my dad paid for it when he surprised me with it for a birthday. I had an old "came in some GM car" shifter on it and he had ridden in the truck with me when I was fighting with the shifter. That unit is hanging in my shed waiting for a project to be used in.

    If you haven't found it there are a lot of Hurst parts here https://www.ebay.com/sch/shifter-dr/m.html?ssPageName=STRK:MEFSXS:MESOI&_trksid=p2053788.m1543.l2654
     
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  14. southcross2631
    Joined: Jan 20, 2013
    Posts: 4,413

    southcross2631
    Member

    I was going to say if you hadn't found one . Summit actually sells their brand shifter for a Saginaw and it is a Hurst knock off and works really good. I put one in a customers 57 Chevy that he provided me the transmission and shifter.
     
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  15. Just an FYI, but that shifter set-up is higher and further forward than the Muncie will be. If you fit the floor for this combo, the Muncie shifter will not fit in the hole.
     
    lewk likes this.
  16. That shifter your holding is the floor mount for the Monza that was mentioned earlier - and does not bolt to the trannie.....if you didn't figure it out.
     
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  17. 56sedandelivery
    Joined: Nov 21, 2006
    Posts: 6,695

    56sedandelivery
    Member Emeritus

     
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  18. davidh73750
    Joined: Apr 21, 2009
    Posts: 1,598

    davidh73750
    Member

    Question. Would that monza/Vega setup work well in a pickup? Thinking of solution to run bench seat. Of course no speed shifting I wonder how hard it would be to center or set up? Maybe go in a 50 Chevy pu with 283, low gear Saginaw.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Dec 15, 2021
  19. mgtstumpy
    Joined: Jul 20, 2006
    Posts: 9,214

    mgtstumpy
    Member

    That configuration almost replicates a Hurst Super Shifter setup with higher direct rods.
     
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  20. Ericnova72
    Joined: May 1, 2007
    Posts: 595

    Ericnova72
    Member
    from Michigan

    I thought the same thing nearly as fast as I viewed the latest picture....not going to fit in the factory trans tunnel on an El Camino, not mounted up that high. It's up there somewhere close to the Super Shifter and Speedway Super Shifter mounting point.
    Does the '60 Elco have a lot more trans tunnel space than the later A-body Elco's from '64-up?.
    I've never been under one, so i don't know..
     
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