Rock and Roll Engineering

A friend and fellow HAMB menber who presently has no computer access is about to commit to an expensive Pontiac engine build with Bruce Fulper of Rock and Roll Engineering. He would like any feedback available prior to mailing his deposit on Monday. Anyone have any comments or feedback I can pass along by phone to him? Good, bad, mediocre?

Thanks,
Phil

 

Phil,

I have heard some stuff about Mr. Fulper, but I have no personal knowledge of him or his work. I would recommend that you check out Bill Boyle's Pontiac Street Performance website and search on some of the forums there. Here is the link: http://www.pontiacstreetperformance.com/

This is a very good Pontiac site with a lot of information. You will find the information you are looking for there.

Good luck,

Thor

 

Do some homework before any $$ is spent....
Pontiac Slim

 

Is this the same one located in CA?
If it is...

I have had some personal experince with Rock and Roll, but this was a couple years back on my dad's Ram air IV adn my OHC 6. It seemed they were kind of disorganized and that the $ from your project will finish the one hes in the middle of, and the nexts person's $ will finish yours.

Thor1 is right on. that is a great pontiac site and should be able to find what your looking for.

 

I think it depends more on the type of build it is and power desired....

Bruce builds some good stuff from my experiences with people who own and race his engines. Before you could get a stroker crank for a Pontiac he was the man for cut down main 455 cranks to stuff in your old 389 or 400 block and save on rotating mass. He is a cool guy to talk to, really loves old Pontiacs and can build a nice combination for you. Just the same I've never seen one torn down or gave one a leak down test. There are some "I wound the snot out my fresh motor to impress my buddies without breaking it in and Bruce won't fix it for free" whine-whine-whine posts online I've seen but you'll have that. Turn around times etc, I have never had to deal with. Being a single interest specialty shop in this market he may be working alone right now if you think about it.

The thing is unless you are doing something really wild any competent shop can handle it more so with the aftermarket heads, cam grinds you can buy now. If you have place you trust there is no reason not to go there instead. My thing is you are paying mostly for the name, and while he earned it, I'd rather spend cash on better parts than the name on the shop wall assuming you can get the same quality. Now if you are building a tough iron D-port headed tri-power motor you need a Pontiac guy who is into it to make come alive.

 

Stay away, very far away

 

Being an old "Pontiac guy", I've heard a number of negative things about Bruce Fulper. Justified or not, for ME all it takes is one or two bad reports about someone for me to look elswhere to spend my "Hard Earned". There are a good number of other Pontiac engine builders that are available that have impeccable reputations...Jim Butler in Tennesee being one. If it was me, I'd look elsewhere...

 

Please go search on performance years or classical pontiac forums(or any pontiac forums, really) before you let him lay down any money. as 55chieftain says, stay far far away. Also as 345 Desoto says, I've heard nothing but good about Butler.

 

Thanks guys, that's enough for me, I'll pass this on to Mark, I'm certain he's going to take the advice, he was about to mail a $3000 retainer out Monday! He had best look further. I looked at Rock and Rolls website, guys that tell you how great they are, usually aren't.....

Phil

 

http://www.sdperformance.com/

Great bunch of guys at SD Performance. Dave builds some great engines.

They're pretty popular in vintage Pontiac circles.

Shawn

 

Run away, the faster the better! Go with SD performance, or Jim Butler.

 

$3000 retainer? I can almost build a Pontiac for that. What was the total to be?

 

Another vote for Butler Performance. I've had nothing but good experiences with them.

 

PhastPhil, You have PM mail - serious mail !

 

Anyone that needs that kind of money up front I would stay away from ! That is a lot of money for a rebuild try to stay close to home where you can keep tabs on how the shop is doing, By stopping in now and then. Not one where you can only call to hear not see what is going on !
Just my 2 cents worth

 

Another vote for STAY AWAY!

 

stay, away!! call butler performance. he is great to talk to even convinced me not to spend as much on parts that i did not need. very honest.

 

and another thing, any builder that believes that pontiac motors dont need an oil filter i would run from.

 

try http://www.automachperf.com/ mikes not a pontiac specialist, he is one of the top buick builders in the country, and i know ive seen him have pontiac engines in his shop..
hes an engine master and has competed in the engine masters shootout contest several times with buick and ford stuff.
he has some top notch equipment including flowbench and engine dyno, i can vouge for his machine work and cleanliness ,its top notch..hes always done great work on my smallblock chevrolet stuff.

talk to Mike if you call.

 

A good SoCal Pontiac guy is Ace Brewer at Pacific Performance Racing in San Pedro. He's one of the major reasons there are some many stroker cranks, repro windage trays, repro valley pans (that fit w/ roller lifters), etc.
I have nothing good to say about Fulper, so I won't.

 

Just say no! Do a search on him at 1pontiac.com

 

x2 on Mike being a good guy. As mentioned he does do other stuff besides Buicks.

If your friend might be interested in some Detroit-area builders, I can give you some excellent names there...also Engine Master competitors. A good shop will be able to handle various brands.

 

PHASTPHIL - I HOPE you're going to print out this Topic, and show it to your buddy. Note that nobody had anything GOOD to say about "Brucey". BTW, I brought the rebuild in on the engine in my Avatar, for your friends "down payment"...

 

SD Performance has done all of my motors. Dave does great work, and is a good guy.

 

I have heard nothing but negative experiences with Bruce. My only experience directly was buying a set of ported and polished and assembled Edelbrock heads about 13 or so years ago for my GTO project. I remembering thinking I was going to have to make a road trip to go pick them (or my money) up since it took about 7 months to get them after being quoted a lead time of about a month. To be honest, once they arrived, they were as promised as far as condition. However, I wouldn't do business with him again.

 

You definitely do NOT want to do business with Bruce Fulper of Rock n Roll Engineering- he has a paltry 2 year degree at best from some community college, and he has a severe narcissist disorder- i.e. he thinks he is God. He bought the record setting Hatari SuperStock Firebird race car, dumped his own shitty engine in it, and won one SuperStock meet by default/red light/handicap/etc. so now he think's he's some sort of engine guru. I would not let the guy work on my lawn mower or Cox airplane, let alone my vintage hot rod engine ! My friend bought a pair of ported Pontiac heads from someone second hand, that originally came from the RRE shop- they flowed good numbers on the bench, but the engine dropped a valve at the track, broke the block, piston, and head- block had to be sleeved, and the head welded up- because RRE put shitty valves in the heads. BEWARE- if that guy gets your money, forget it, you're in for a rough ride- he has been known to make people wait months for their engines- he lives on a shoestring budget, and basically spends your deposit money on food-racing-living expenses- and then he'll build your engine on the next guy's deposit money down the line- sort of like an engine ponzi scheme.

 

Somebody get a rope.......

 

I wonder if he's still around?

 

Yes unfortunately. As the late great Pt Barnum said, there's a sucker born every minute

 

There's a real nice 65 Grand Prix here the owner says he bought it from Bruce Fulper of Rock N Roll engineering.. It has 670 heads on a 421 block with Tri-Power.. The car is fantastic! I turns 12 second quarter mile times...