Technical Ford 260CI Flexplate

Mid 63. You have 289 Galaxies and Fairlanes in 1963. The famous 289 K Code debut in 1963 in the Fairlane.
Mid can actually mean pretty early in the production year.
The 1962 406 is not in the 62 shop manual.

 

The C3 block casting and 6 bolt bell mystery....,.,just had a bad thought.....was it bolted
together just using the 4 side holes on the block??? I don't have a 5 bolt bell to compare
indexing on side holes???? I hope that this even isn't possible

 

Sorry Guys, don't like beating this thread to death.
I don't get it anymore, the plot just thickens. FUBAR!
Trans guy called to come on down (that's always a bad sign).

Showed me some bad clutches/clutch pak I said okay, replace it.
Then showed me the drums worn out and said they were smaller than what should be in there.
He said possible drums were for a 6 cylinder motor, but said they wont last behind a v8.

Then he showed me the flex plate,.
I didn't realize that a weight was added along with the existing weight bar already on it.
Another weight was added to the bottom of the flexplate. There is no part# to be found.

I got some pics of the fubared flex plate and the new one.
The new one is a 28oz 157 tooth.
So the mystery is why was the weight added to the flex plate.
The harmonic balancer is for 28oz also.

I told him to hold off until I can get some more info

 

Looks like someone tried to balance a flex plate on a bubble balancer for tires

 

Just saw pics, but stop where you're at to verify that your C3 block actually has a 6 bolt pattern, not just
the bell.

 

It's not possible, as the six-bolt bell is physically larger. But Ford did build a one-year-only five-bolt C4 bell for use behind the '64 289s. Not particularly common even then, a bit hard to find these days but there's still some out there, and would fit onto a 260. For whatever reasons, Ford never installed the C4 behind the 260.

 

As someone said previously the only way to make it perfect is to rebalance everything from the damper back but I don't think you want to do that. I would have him rebuild the trans to V8 specs and install the 157T flexplate and see where you are. I bet you'll be fine.
Do we know conclusively if it's a 5 bolt or 6 bolt block?

 

I'm sorry guys, they verified it was a 5 bolt while I was there.
No, I didn't get a number I was still reeling from the flex plate, but yes definitely a 5 bolt.
Could it be it needs a 50 oz flexplate?

 

Very unlikely.... but not impossible. You would be extremely unlikely to find a 50oz crank in a 260 block as that combo would require custom pistons. A 289 block, it's possible.

 

The only thing that concerns me now why they tried to re-balance it.
Something was wrong.
He also showed me a bad rebuilt torque converter.

 

See if someone has a gauge to Pump one of the cylinders with a cubic inch gauge and you will find out what size motor you have. The gauges are a little pricey so see if some racer has one.

 

It would be alot cheaper to pull the oil pan and check the crank like @Crazy Steve suggested.
Being I'm lacking history on this ride, I can only speculate as to why all the weird shit was done to this ride. I'm just going to have him finish the re-build and see what happens. What a mess! I'll let you guys know when its out of his shop fixed or not. Thanks for putting up with me.

 

That's something you can't find out without pulling the engine apart. All you can do at this point is try your "best guess" and see what happens. The consensus seems to be that your combination needs the 28 oz weight, so with the new flexplate installed correctly and a new converter you should be ok.

 

A 50 oz in crank has a 3" stroke (1.500" throw) used with 5.090" rods, and a 260 crank has a 2.87" stroke (1.435" throw) with 5.155" rods. Both combinations place the small end of the rod at the same height at TDC.
So a 50 oz in crank with its rods could conceivably be installed in your engine with stock pistons coming up to the stock height (resulting in a slightly larger displacement stroker engine).

Who knows what was done to this engine?

 

Confirm that you have a C4. It could be a Fordomatic.


Ford C4


It's been nearly 60 years (56years) since a 5 bolt engine and Foromatic 2 speed has been manufactured.
It's been nearly 40 years since a C4 has been manufactured.
20 years since a small block has been manufactured.
This is not something a mechanic will see every day.

It's possible, maybe even likely that what you have is a 1963 Engine with a 2speed Fordomatic. Notice how similar they are. Since the engine was miss-identified, the transmission could have been as well.

The Aluminum 2 speed Foromatic was a stinker.
If your transmission is a Foromatic this could be root of your problem and the flex plate stuff is attempted repairs.

Below is a one year only 1964 289 C4 bell.
289 C4 5 bolt Bell (for illustration only)

(complete set up to allow a C4 transmission to be bolted up to an early Ford 260. Comes with the 5 bolt bell housing, flex plate, and spacer. Hard to find.)
supposedly a 260 fordomatic flexplate

Your (289 302 flexplate)

5 bolt c4 bell

6bolt Bell




As Steve said the 5bolt C4 bell is a rare one year only part. It was only behind the 289 in 64.

The 50oz crank was off the table once it was confirmed to be a 1963 engine.

 

It still could be a 50 oz in crankshaft if someone rebuilt this engine with later parts.
There certainly seems to be odd stuff done to this engine.

I can confirm the C4 is a far better transmission than the two speed Fordomatic, having had cars with both many years ago.

 

The 260 was available in the first Mustang, ie 64 1/2 released in April 1964, and was available with a manual transmission or an automatic, which, I presume, would be a C4, since the C4 was used behind the 289 in the Galaxie and, in 4bbl form, the Mustang.

Pretty sure no two speed automatic transmissions were available in any Mustang.

 

There seem to be quite a few 5-bolt C4 bellhousings out there.

The general problem is that all the ones I am finding are $500-700.

 

It's very important to get the engine plate with the bellhousing as well.
Maybe the sellers will offer that for another hundred or two.
Cheez these guys want lots of money.

 

I know the owner doesn't want to hear this but with what I've seen so far his easiest/quickest/perhaps cheapest way to get the car back on the road is replace the engine and transmission. And, oh by the way, there are actually three different counterweights used on the 302; the 28 oz, the 50 oz, and a one-year-only "in between" motor built around 1984, if I remember correctly. Friend of mine bought an old grandma car for the low mileage motor/trans, re-gasketed everything including changing the harmonic balancer because the rubber was coming apart. Once installed the pickup the engine ran great except for this annoying vibration (sound familiar), swapping to the other counter-weighted harmonic balancer only made things worse, finally talked to the dealer who'd seen this problem before and by the grace of God got them the last available proper weighted harmonic balancer left on planet earth. Gotta love them Fords.

 

Well, we're all curious about what's happening ?

Sent from my SM-G973U using The H.A.M.B. mobile app

 

They are re-building the transmission, new reverse and forward drums, new flex plate and torque converter and other stuff needed. I went there and they showed me everything, transmission was toast.

Should be ready next week baring no more surprises.
He said because of that weight welded on the flex plate and not knowing why, is the mystery.
He will know when he starts it.

 

I have a 5 bolt C4 setup here. looks like the bell housing etc @F-ONE posted. The C4 body looks smaller than the 6 bolt version ? The Fordomatic flexplate is also the same as I have left over from my '64 260. My sandwich plate is full circle type though.

 

Okay, got the Ranchero back yesterday.
99% of vibration is gone. It doesn't have that out of round lopey cam feeling anymore.

For the money that was paid I'm bringing it back to the shop on Friday.
They need to adjust shifter cable so it goes into park correctly and wire in neutral safety switch.
Other than that it shifts smooth and rides pretty good for a old car that has been molested.

 

Now, it probably need to be tuned. Valve adjustment, and spark plug condition, as well as a few other things, can make things seem a little off.

Give it the old once-over.

 

That's Great!

 

I am very glad to hear this and again sorry for not being more help.

 

Yes, doing those things next weekend.
Thanks for your help now and in the past.

Hey, thanks for all the pics and advice.
I really appreciate it.

No worries, don't be sorry, you were a big help.
I know times have been rough lately.
My Condolences to you and your family.

 

Got the Falcon back today.
There is still a engine vibration at 1200-1500 RPM's.
No vibration at idle and no vibration above 1500 RPM's.

Right in that sweet spot you can feel a steady vibration.
I'm wondering if the messed up flex plate screwed up the harmonic balancer.
Got to figure this out.

 

You put on a new one, correct? Was there any warranty? Maybe try an aftermarket one if you think it is defective.