Many here know my story of my 727 failing after a $2100.00 "fix" last summer. There is way less than 500 miles on it. It is back in the shop that did the work, and has been for over a week. It is a hydro sick, manual shift. Went and checked on it after lunch asking what failed and when I can expect it back. What failed I still don't know, and they are awaiting parts. He did say they suspect "line pressure" to be the cause. So I said, "so I did nothing to cause it, so it is not my fault ? A very quick retort was, " Well it ain't mine either, but we'll work something out." So for those in the know does he mean line pressure to and from the cooler or what?? I never considered line pressure to be a problem so I need a little edumacation here. I installed a cooler similar to this when building the car, to the frame just behind the crossmember, to the frame=, should do the trick or not??? Trans will be ready for pick up next week he says. I don't feel I should pay a cent, it was not my fault it failed. He wants me to bring in the car after I get it back on the road for his examination also. I'm thinking he is going to say it was not properly installed and demand I pay. I'm interested in what you guys have to say, especially perhaps those of you in the business of building and repairing for the car hobbyists in situations like mine.
I'm no expert, but, I have heard of shops saying they won't warrant work if one of those type coolers is used. Maybe that's just a rumor. I don't know. Having said that, those coolers have never seemed like a good idea to me.
Since it is a hydro stick manual shift, I’m guessing that it doesn’t use and linkage up to the carb? If there is no linkage, then there is nothing out of adjustment there. Someone with more Torque Flite experience than I, please correct me if I’m wrong, but the linkage to the carb would control line pressure, more throttle opening would equal more pressure to keep the clutches and bands applied when more power goes through them. My next thought would be is your shifter adjusted correctly? If the cable? is not adjusted correctly, it can be holding the manual valve between 3-2 and 2-1. This would cause a disruption in pressure as well. As long as the fluid did not overheat due to your choice of cooler, and the other two items mentioned are correctly adjusted, I would think it’s not your fault. Where I work, we tend to be lenient with warranty to protect our reputation. Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
Too low line pressure will cause the clutches and bands to slip, destroying their lining. Also if that cooler really is not cooling the fluid, causing the fluid to thin , there will not be enough line pressure. Let's face it, low line pressure causes most transmission failures. Please keep us posted
It would help to know what failed, are the clutches burned ? Is the kickdown band burned ? did it eat up a hard part ? who's valve body are you using ?
I've run one of those extruded coolers for 23 years. If I haven't had a problem by now, I don't think I will. I am running an aluminum deep sump on the TH350, which adds a bit more cooling.
I assume he means low line pressure as opposed to high. Can't help much other than to suggest a more descriptive title. I don't get a chance to read every thread that comes across the HAMB, doubt I'm alone. I first read the ones that pertain to me, I have knowledge of or interest me. Putting 'Failed Torqueflight' or some such might catch more eyes of those with experience.
Only way it could be your fault is if the torque converter clearance was too tight and wiped out the pump. That causes low line pressure. If it’s a reverse manual valve body it’s probably a Turbo Action. Could be a manual shift shift kit which would most likely be forward pattern. That kit may still require a throttle valve linkage which increases line pressure with throttle. Not set correctly will toast it in no time. Hard to say with out seeing it. Sent from my iPad using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
I run a dual pass cooler same as that on my 727 and was worried that it might not be sufficient so I installed a trans temp gauge and the only time that I've seen it go over 160F was once when I was pushing the car a bit checking on auto change speeds. IIRC autos like to run above 160 and below 230. Your cooler should be OK unless your doing some serious drag or street racing but does the hydro-stick feature increase trans operating temps?
Thanks to those of you who answered. The shift linkage was set ok, I could feel each shift and if felt solid as it happened. The engine was taken to them for hook up and is there again so if it is the The engine was taken to them for hook up so if the torque converter clearance was too tight that should be on their dime. I did take engine and trans to them again this time. I will post what failed once I find out myself. It was really slipping in 3rd with little to no reverse, except to lockup hard burning rubber when it did. BTW the fluid was not burned, it was red as it should be when draining it for removal. Truck DR. your correct in your assuming no kickdown to the carb.
I can't see a trans fail at 500 miles even if the cooler was bypassed. Unless it was a tow rig. For around $30 you can get a ATSG manual for you Flight It will give you great info.
If the trans is built correctly I see no reason any cooler would cause problems. But my opinion and 35 cents won't get you a cup of coffee either. Lippy
I've seen a 727 that failed with the pump blowing out the front seal after being overheated. It was then rebuilt by a local shop and shortly after, it overheated again, blew out the front seal once again. The culprit turned out to be the rubber hoses used to connect the cooler. They were deteriorating from the inside and causing a clogged, low pressure condition.
need more specifics on rest of drivetrain, and pics - I would run one of the coolers with a built in fan like pic
Blaming line pressure is a cop out. Was it a high pressure issue or a low pressure issue? And what parts got damaged? He may be looking for a way to charge you for the parts he has to replace. Hopefully while you were having those issues with the high speed miss, you didn't try to drive your manual shift trans like an automatic trans a time or two. That could have really messed up which parts were, or were not getting the proper pressure at the trans had to attempt to start out in 3rd gear a time or two instead of starting in low and shifting up or down through the gears. Gene
It may be his fault, it may be your fault, it may be a defective new part (which would probably make it his fault, assuming there's some kind of warranty on them) and it may be an old part that was fine when the transmission was overhauled but has failed since - some things do break w/o warning or detectable wear, and that would probably be your "fault", or at least your money, and it can be an old part that was bad already when it was overhauled but he missed replacing it, making it his fault. It may be hard to determine the exact cause beyond doubt. Lots of people automatically assume the mechanic did something wrong when something fails shortly after the car has been worked on, it's a reasonable assumption but sometimes it just happens to fail right then instead of some other random time.
If it has a Transgo -3 stick shift installed shift kit to make it full manual of even some store bought manual valve bodys, the throttle lever at the trans has to be wired back to full throttle position for max throttle pressure. If it wasnt, the trans is operating with low line pressure. Line pressure is operating pressure, not cooler line. Was the lever wired back to full throttle position? Bill
that throttle kickdown linkage is extremly important not only that it is there but adjusted correctly. any transmission man that's been around the 727 know's poor adjustment or not hooked up will kill a tranny in the first 500 miles. and tranny pressure does not have anything to do with the cooler lines
Drivetrain: Engine/Motor...........1955 Chrysler 331 Hemi. Rearend.........early 60's E type Jag. Rear tires size............285/70R15 X 30" tall. Rear ratio...........unknown, but they ran 3:54, 3:31, 3:07 and 2:88. (know its not 2:88) Not HAMB friendly, pics not allowed.
And at the rebuild last summer that is exactly why I stayed with manual shift, knowing only full well I could never get the adjustment right for the kickdown correct.
And so this morning I feel I'm really at his mercy, being totally ignorant about things Torqueflite. Not wanting this to happen again after this rebuild I'll have to accept his word and most likely pay up. The one saving grace for me is that my guru guy who helped me on the build used him and his dad for teaching his auto shop high school class on auto trans back in the day, and he is helping out on the R&R of the trans. Guess I'll find out next week when it will be ready. I'll post an up date to this when in and done. Thanks loads for all your input, I surly appreciate your help.
i think you still need that throttle kick down linkage wether your manual shift or automatic it acts as a governor for the tranny's valve bodies pressure
One of the key pieces that needs to be changed is the lever that operates the kickdown band . You need a 5.1 lever. https://www.manciniracing.com/ma50kile.html. You still haven't said what valve body you are using. A full manual uses no kickdown linkage and you remove the governor internals also. Between the lever and the valve body not set up right you will continually burn second gear up.
TA dad the valve body is a manual one......... the work is being done by the most reputable trans shops around seattle/tacoma. I trust they know what needs done. The very knowledgeable guy working it last year found a part that was wrong in the kit that came from B&M last year. He had one in his shop at home that was right, installing it instead of the kit part. Thanks for your help.
Have you driven it before the way it is set up now,if so i dont think a kickdown setup is the problem.However the kickdown is very important to the 727s,they are relatively easy to setup,use the 3 piece rod setup,it has holes in the brackets for alignment,is easy once you grasp how it is working, Harvey
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