So about a year ago I bought a local barn find '51 chieftain that has been sitting for a few decades. Story is the car had two owners before me and is extremely complete and without major rust or damage. Interior is tired and definitely has patina...but I fell in love with the giant waterfall trim and hope to build a fun family cruiser out of it. Yesterday I finally got enough projects squared away that we could start on reviving the old chief. We rebuilt the Carter WCO and reinstalled. Cleaned the fuel tank, Shot some WD40 down the holes, checked the fluids, fresh battery and cranked her over. Wow...6V cars crank slower than 12 . Haven't got any fuel coming up from the fuel pump yet, but not super surprised. Poured a bit of gas down the the throat and got nothing. Noting the newish looking plugs and wires I decided to investigate the ignition. Looks like it has a new cap, rotor and points and the points weren't gapped correctly. Fixing this got me spark and a stumbling start. I was able to get it to run for about 5 seconds by pouring gas down the throat (was out of starter fluid), but now can't get it to do that even with starter fluid. It will occasionally stumble, but doesn't seem close to starting. At this point I've pretty much run the 6V battery dead and am going to retry after letting it charge overnight. Here are my questions: 1) I see three hatch marks on the crank pulley. When running a timing light these seem to be just a bit retarded from the pointer...which of these three should I be trying to match to the pointer? 2) I'm going to try new points and condenser tomorrow as well since they seemed off. I'm worried I might be getting intermittent spark (or my timing light is on the fritz or my ten year old who was doing the cranking sometimes forgot to have the key in the 'on' position while pushing the starter button). The coil is likely another source of intermittent spark issues...any others? 3) I should be able to run this on starter fluid shouldn't I? I bought a 6v inline fuel pump but would like to get it running on starter fluid without it to see if the mechanical pump just needs more RPM/time to pump fuel from the tank to the carb. 4) Being a goober, I didn't turn the idled adjustment screws in on the carb before I removed them to get a baseline of where to set them. On reassembly I bottomed them and then backed off 1 turn. Should that get me in the ballpark? Thanks for reading my novel. Andy
I have seen some real damage from too much starting fluid. If you get enough of that stuff floating around in the motor it can make a big bang. Saw a cast iron intake split by this and don't know what other damage it might have done. I use a small plastic squirt bottle (like dish soap bottle) of gas. Safer and cheaper. On a car this age I'd also look at the fuel line from the tank. All it takes is a tiny pinhole that doesn't even cause a visible leak. Try poking a hole in the straw above the liquid level in a soda. You can suck all day and get little or no soda. Multiply that by the 15-20 feet the fuel pump has to draw and you can see why it can keep the pump from delivering fuel. Have seen this on a lot of old cars. Lot of fuel pumps have been replaced and it didn't fix the problem. If you have a Mityvac tool (hand vacuum pump) or another vacuum source (DON'T USE A SHOP VAC !!!!!!) you can disconnect the supply line from the pump and see if you can draw fuel. If you don't have a Mityvac you can try the old by mouth method but I don't recommend it. Don't ask me why. This is also a good way to prime a weak pump. Think Harbor Freight has their version of the Mityvac for about 30 bones. Another alternative is to hang a gallon jug with some gas in (not too much) and a hose going to the fuel pump inlet or carb inlet. Have also seen pickup tube in tank with hole rusted in, wouldn't pull fuel when level was below the hole. Have heard of filter sock in tank being clogged but have never seen personally. I work on a lot of old shit and it seems like fuel problems are a lot more common for me than ignition.
You can also disconnect the rest of the car's circuit, and just leave the starter by itself, then run it on 12 volts. It will be ok, as long as you "give it a rest" between cranks. Many 6v starters out there running on 12 volts. As said above, run a gravity tank to the carb, and then you can see if the problem lies before or after the pump.
First off, welome to the H.A.M.B. Next, you WILL like the car. Next thing, what do the battery cables look like? Have you pulled and cleaned them? They NEED to be as big as your thumb. 00 or 000 size. A lot of 6V cars had cables replaced with 12V cables , which are smaller. Double check for a spark. I second the starting fluid warning. Ben
Thanks for all the tips and encouragement. The battery cable to the starter certainly has been replaced with a small 12v one. I’ll see what I can do about that before going too much further. Sounds like it’s time to dig out the mityvac and see if I can get fuel that way. I also bought a 6v in-line pump, but would like to use as a last resort. Any tips on where I should be on timing marks?
@lostih 're timing marks...try the one in the middle. May not be the best setting but should be close enough to run decent until it can be accurately dialed in when fine tuning the engine. Ray
Thanks everyone! Got it going! New battery cable, new points/condenser, and a squirt bottle of gas and she started up. Runs a bit rough, but sitting so long might take a bit for the valves to get freed up. Next up is brakes and radiator Thanks again for the tips!
If you haven't seen this thread, it's a great read on an old Pontiac. https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/index.php?threads/1171852/ Sent from my SM-G973U using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
So on to the next mystery... this is what the master cylinder in the car looks like: And this is what the one the parts houses stock for a ‘51 Cheiftain looks like: I looked up and down a few years but they all looked like the one listed. Anyone recognize the master I have? I was hoping to rebuild, but it appears to have been sitting for years without fluid and is pretty rusty in the bore. Also, once car was running I decided to try moving it. The clutch doesn’t ever seem to engage. Just before the pedal is all the way out you can here it start to drag and the car moves ever so slightly. Any idea why a clutch would be adjusted all the way out like this? I’ve tried the adjustment a bit, but don’t have high hopes...
Som Ting Wong with the Rock Auto listing. Surprising, but true.. The clutch is absolutely, positively worn out. Look for new parts there too. Ray
It could go either way. I often buy from Rock Auto and am very happy with my experiences. I have never queried them on a part, but I imagine they have some means of asking questions. Perhaps look into that. edit: I think the mismatch is in the year model. The illustrated M/C looks more like the one in my ‘37 Chevy because of both the mounting flange and pedal pivots. Not a stretch to think a ‘41 Pontiac, vs ‘51, had an M/C like the pictured unit. Ray
The Jalopy Journal
