Technical 6v charging tech (phone, etc)

Found an old thread here about hooking up a 12v charging socket to a 6v system for charging tech since they run on 5v.
Thought i was good to go but nope
New power receptacle added. The + side of it is run to the - of the battery and the - side of the receptacle is still run to ground (direct to a known good ground for my blower)

I inserted one of those plugs with the usb post and the light is lit! Yay! Right? Well, insert usb charging cable and attach phone, phone says charging! Yay! Right? Nope, that's where the failure comes in. Phone doesn't charge, just stays dormant or decreases with use.
Thoughts?
I based this off of a thread here from 2013 in which the poster stated this worked for him for a year.

Only difference from mine to his was his is straight off the ignition and mine is straight to the battery. I have swapped out different cables, devices, plugs. No change other than my ipad says "may not be able to recognize this device" when plugged in.

 

Most cell phone car chargers(if not all) are designed for a 12-14.4VDC input and it regulates it down to ~5V output.
It's a dumb device it does not know that your system is a 6 VDC system.
It needs a '12' volt system input to put out the correct ~5V output to charge your phone.
You will either need to find a 6V usb charger, maybe tractor supply house might have something. But your typical car charger to USB charger will not function correctly with a 6V input.

What you may be able to do, is locate a 6V to 12V converter and hook that directly up to your cigarette lighter(disconnecting the 6V hot lead), and then you would have a 12V cigarette lighter. But if you are still running a GEN, rather than ALT, your power quality my be a bit wonky.

 

Hello,

I am sure going through all of that trouble to put in a 12v system to charge up phones, music players or whatever is a complete waste of time. IMHO. For all of the time and energy spent on setting up a power outlet in the car, it would be better spent on purchasing the myriad of choices of portable battery packs. Amazon has tons of choices and for our family and two cars, we each have our own portable battery packs. These days, it is important to keep up with the charging of the battery packs. No wires to run through the dash or glove box, no worries about overpowering the device with the car set up.

Speaking of car powered outlets, we have had many instances of driving with our granddaughter and when she needs a charge on her phone, she breaks out the portable battery pack we gave her for emergencies. She has used it countless times. It is a fast charger and the fun thing is, my wife plugged in her cell phone into the built in port with a cable to her phone. The portable battery pack charged faster and did not get hot in the charging period. Our granddaughter laughs at that scene.

We have gone through phones and chargers since they came out with flip phones back in 2000 or so. The charging at home was fine as it was overnight, but on the road trips, if we did not remember to charge our devices before we left, then we were at the mercy of the small batteries in the music player or phones. Since the advent of portable battery packs, there is no time when the batteries in the phones are low or dead. But, do we use the built in usb port or 12v port? No. We break out the first generation of 10000 mAh and it charges faster than the built-in unit.
Our "old reliable" first gen battery pack still charges and holds well. It is a little too large for a pocket, so it sits in our station wagon glove box for emergencies. These battery packs are available everywhere, but one day service and a charge overnight, you are good for the usage of your cell phone or device.

We gave our granddaughter and her family these portable battery packs when they came out. They have been very useful and handy. The built in car units seem like they should charge as fast or faster, but they actually do not. We have tested the big 10k mAh battery and even lesser 2nd gen battery packs against the built in one and they all charge faster.

Jnaki

For $34.99, that sure beats spending hours in the garage thinking about those wires and why it does not charge or work. Even if you or others are the top notch electrical guys, these portable battery packs are so handy, they should be standard equipment for all traveling families or college bound teenagers. They fit in jacket pockets and yes, crowded purses. They even come in small less powerful battery packs that will actually fit in most women’s purses that seem to get crowded fast. Yes, my wife has a portable one like this one. It is usually on the bottom of her purses, just in case.
4 x 1 inch dimensions.
Update: This new portable charger is one we are going to buy for our granddaughter. It is the latest version and is more compact than the older one we gave her a couple of years ago.

We may even buy some new ones, too, but since we have not read any reports on the quality or dependablilty on this tiny one, we are waiting.

 

I'd look for something like this

https://www.ebay.com/itm/184293617917?

ymmv

 

Try measuring the voltage at the output of the unit:

 

Mad Mike ,
I appreciate your reply. I hadnt considered that 12v was need to initiate a reduction to 5v. In my mind it would reduce anything between 6v and 12v. I dont know why i thought that. Just did. But heres the thread from the person here who says it works:
https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/gps-and-cell-phone-in-a-6-volt-system.737762/

Jnaki
I had considered this but with the work done to this point it was very simple and i have seen several instances of it supposedly working so it was no big deal. Had it of worked as i thought it would have been more than worth it. I dont mind figuring things out and with the bluetooth stereo setup i am looking to adapt to this car, i would much rather not have to carry around battery packs to charge here there and everywhere. Having said that, if that comes to be the best solution, then i may just hide a 12v power wheels battery somewhere and utilize it in that fashion while leaving the sockets i installed already. Maybe have 2 so i can swap them out.

Squirrel
Thanks. I seen that and will.look into that as well

36roadster.
Thanks for that. I will. I will get my meter out tomorrow and get readings everywhere to see what i am getting. Maybe i can make some adjustments.

Either way, heres my baby yall! Aint she purdy?

 

If you have a USB charger that is designed to operate on 12v, it will have a built in power supply that needs 12v to operate. It's not just a voltage regulator or limiter. Modern USB chargers are pretty complicated devices...they talk with the thing they are charging, and negotiate a voltage/current charge rate.

 

Crazy so much can go on in such a small, cheap little thing. So plugged into those sockets i installed as suggested above i have 2 dollar tree plug in ($1 each) that are said to be 1amp usb outlets. Into each of those i plug in whatever charging cables i need for each device. And yeah, they definitely work on my other cars (12v) but as of yet, not these. My phone actually says charging but doesnt increase the battery storage over time. So i guess i am just going to get my meter out and see whats what tomorrow just because i would like to know.
If i cant figure out an option to use it in this fashion i think i may go with a 12v power wheels battery to use in conjunction with the sockets already installed. Idk though, still thinking "outloud" ... Thanks again though for the thoughts and advice

 

Sounds like you have your polarity backwards. Battery positive and negative are still the same, it’s the car that decides positive or negative ground. Your 12 volt outlet needs to be electrically insulated from the car, with the + terminal going to the + terminal on the battery, likewise with the - terminal. You need to connect directly to the battery, not use the car metal for your ground if the car is 6 volt positive ground.

 

Hmm... Forgive me because this 6v positive ground is very new to me.
So the wire i have coming from the - of the battery should go to the - of the receptacle even though the - of the receptacle is meant to indicate ground. And the + of the receptacle should now go to the + of the battery. Which is linked to a ground to chasis (so wondering why it makes a different whether or not i ground to chasis somewhere else)
Again i am terribly sorry if i am completely flaking on this. I have installed a million and one electronics on 12v negative ground vehicles and my practice is just that and i cant seem to wrap my head around that.
In my head on this 6v positive ground, my POWER, my charge is coming from my - battery post, so why wouldn't i want that going to my center post (meant for power) on the receptacle. Ill try it! I have a fire extinguisher! Lol.

 

How do you tag people?
Can someone tag this guy ??.
bobj49f2

 

The components in your car are 6v positive ground, but the phone you're trying to charge isn't. If you run your power point back to the battery (positive and negative) and wire it up negative ground, it might work, it's what mav is saying

 

@bobj49f2

 

Ok. I appreciate it. That's what i got out of it too. I was just trying to be sure. Pending Bobs thoughts (that's whose thread i based my original set up off of) i will be considering that.
Thanks for tagging him.

 

Im looking back again and thats EXACTLY what i did wrong. In my head im just thinking power has to go to what is meant to be power; that center post. So since my - is power it has to go to power...I even looked at Bobs diagram twice over before and after... And i still just did it backwards. You get something in your mind and you have done it so many times i guess it was just stuck there. Its midnight and i am ready to go out here and fix this thing. I cant but man i wish i could. Lol
Thanks yall!!!

 

if the polarity wrong were the problem, the light wouldn't light....they use LEDs for indicators, and they don't light up when they have + and - reversed.

 

That's not true at all... Im no master but i know thats not right because of little things I have done with my kids. Doesnt matter which side you hook up to those lights. They just need current run through them

 

hmmm....the D means Diode.

I dont know what the rest of the circuit is in the ones you've been messing with. Perhaps there is a bridge rectifier before the LED, or there are two wired in opposite directions.

But if you take a plain light emitting diode, a good old fashioned one, and connect it in series with a current limiting resistor to a battery, it will light when it's connected one way, but not the other way.

One thing about modern electronics stuff is that there is often a lot of circuitry hidden that you can't see. Lipo batteries have all kinds of monitoring circuitry in them, for example

Anyways, if you change the polarity and it starts working, you're right. If you change the polarity and it still doesn't work, I'm right. Please prove me wrong....it will fix your problem!

 

Hell I can't even spell elcte, eletrik, ellektrishin? Oh you know what I mean

 

Right. Thatll tell us. Doing it here in a few. I dont know much about it at all i just have done these little led light kits with my kids and they have no indicators on those lights as to which way to hook them up but i could be completely misunderstanding what that really means. I mean hell, i did just stare at a diagram, study it, and then do it completely backwards so....?

 

my dad was an electrical engineer, both my brothers are, one of my kids...etc...I grew up with this stuff, so I understand the basics well. But I dont know how a modern device might work under conditions it wasn't designed for, because they can do all kinds of neat stuff with electronics these days, and it's usually very tiny and sealed up, so we can't just trace the circuit to figure it out.

We'll know soon!

 

Well you were right there.
The other direction was a no go.
So i hooked it back up the way i had it. 6.4 volts going into the back of the receptacle. 5v even coming out, at the usb port. Only thing is, phone shows charging but literally almost but literally is almost more like the phone is charging the car. It drains it rather than charges it. So... Maybe power wheels battery it is?
I wish i knew why it worked for old Bob and not me.

 

It might be that he was using an earlier version of USB charger, that is not "smart". They're always changing the USB standards, I think it's version 3.0 now, which wasn't around back then.

 

Ok. Understand and appreciate your time man.
I do thank you for the input.

 

you're welcome.

 

Sorry to bother you man. But in considering this, if you were installing it what would that look like?
I can see that these units are saying like 90% efficiency so nothing but an inline (10amp?) Fuse between the - side of the battery and the converter? Maybe another for fun on the + side going out to my receptacle? Nothing else? No imposing strain on my charging system or anything? No extra components?

 

might add a 10 amp fuse to the power wire feeding the converter, you probably don't need any more fuses. It should not need any other components. It will add a load to the car's charging system, when you are charging something. It won't be a big load, though, just a few amps at most.

 

I was the person who originally posted about using 6 volt to charge a phone. I found the information on a Model A site and built a system for my '49 Ford F-2 pick up truck.

To me it sounds like the polarity isn't right.

I insulated the metal casing of my power ports from the metal dash using a piece of plastic and nylon bolts and nuts. I ran the center posts in the outlets to ground of the metal dashboard, which is positive (+) and the a wire from the metal case of the outlet to my ignition switch for negative (-) power. NOTE: by doing this I made it possible to short the case if a piece of metal came in contact with both the metal outlet case and the metal dashboard. You could use an outlet with a plastic case but still would have to run the outer tube conductor to the ignition, or other source of negative power. I would also highly recommend either running the negative wire from the ignition switch so it doesn't drain your battery when the vehicle is off and putting a fuse in the circuit to minimize the possibility of a short fire.

As for the charger not working on 6 volt my set up works fine with any 12 volt charger I have. All the charger needs to see is a input voltage higher than 5.5 volts.

 

Mine is plastic. I confirmed that i had it right the first time for sure. I have 6.v coming in and a perfect 5v out. All working well up to that point but all the newer chargers i have must know somehow that it is positive ground and so want nothing to do with it.

 

Got it. Ordering it now. Thanks again