Hi all - wondering if I’m going in a ‘right’ or ‘wrong’ direction with my ‘28 coupe build ... 50s traditional hot rod build was going to use my ‘34 21 stud but then got a chance on a ‘51 flathead - possibly merc, and considering mating Borg Warner r10 to it Recently I had another knowledgeable chap state that he and his friends don’t even consider 8ba motors as ‘real flat heads’ - why would some have that sentiment? I had thought 20 years of engine evolution, more horse power and overdrive would all be possible benefits (admittedly I do like the look of my earlier engine a bit more) So - am I straying from the simplicity of the original intent early motor and top loader ... which way should I go - what are the pros and cons - opinions please regards Ron
8BA not real Flatheads,,,,,LoL,,,,,that is a good one ! Sounds like someone that always secretly wanted one,,,,,or,,,Sibling Rivalry,,,,? They were the last Flatheads from Ford in America,,,,and almost all of the earlier issues had been corrected with the design . However,,,,even Ford knew the OHV was gonna be the future,,,,that’s why they went with the Y block . And as many have attested on here,,,,the Y blocks were not all that to start with . Oh yeah,,,,nothing wrong with the 21 stud either,,,,,use whichever you feel best about,,,go for it man ! Tommy
Thanks and Yes - I’m good with that and plan to - but was more just curious why some might comment on 8ba as they did and looking for some opinions on what benefits or headaches going the overdrive direction might bring to my project?
The secret to making a flathead pleasant to drive at near modern highway speeds, is some sort of overdrive unit! No doubt will add to the engine life too!
Leycock-deNormanville....easy to find and do....in lots of older Volvo's. Divorced...frame mounted...two driveshafts...easy to do. Just be sure it's not in OD when you back up...big no no....lots of parts will aquire the ground as a final resting place. Sent from my XT1710-02 using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
Better question is, what do they consider them as if not a flathead Ford? Yes they still have issues (cracks)but are more advanced than the original produced in 1932. Like the older ones as the Y Blocks with their "oiling issues". They are still a "flathead".
Your car, your build. “Not a real flathead” is a self righteous idiotic statement. I would pay zero attention from any advice from them. Some overdrives choices in a traditional style. A r10-11 Borg Warner unit. Ford used em behind flatheads. A ford top loader or gm 3spd OD. 2spd rear
If I were to go back to the use of a valve in block engine (that I have read is actually close in its mechanical directness nearer an overhead cam engine because of the lack of push rods) those from the '49-'53 vintage would certainly be my only choice. Plus, I would use every possible trick to make it live longer and be stronger with most of the following tried and true methods. I would relieve the block around the valves for better breathing. I would bore it only enough to clean up the cylinders. I would use an aftermarket forged steel crankshaft. As for rods flip a coin because for the street Ford stuff works because it was built Ford Tough, unless your pockets are deep. Two things that Flathead builders often get wrong when building a street motor is too much cam, and carburetors that aren't matched to the CFM of the engine. Figure out what rpm range you will cruise at and build to that. Overdrive is not a four letter word. Columbia rear ends were a godsend to many who rode the roads back when radio was king and Clark Gable (a hot rodder himself) was a matinee idol. T5s are now the next best thing. Kits exist for a myriad of applications. I had Fenton cast iron headers on my Forty Coupe, and finned aluminum heads (another convenience). If I had it do over I'd add a remote filter, and cooler. They aren't nicknamed 'boilers' for nothing. My foray into VWs proved that cooler oil is important. Oh yeah, balance your internals, and use a machine shop with a Sunnen hone. Ignition is also a twitchy part of old Fords I hated as much as I did Lucas. Go electronic. Make it 12 volt negative ground while you're at it. Mechanical gauges are bullet proof and you only need a wire to light them. Other folks with other opinions don't have a vote when you click off all your trouble free miles. Some progress is acceptable because you are not building a milk wagon but a Hot Rod. Feel Better? I sure hope so. If I've missed something I'm sure those who are where I'm coming from will fill in the blanks, correct my errors, and school us both on the heresy of preferring one thing over the other. But, that's why we all come here isn't it? To learn from our betters on both sides of the fence?
I run a 59 series FH with 8 BA crank and 8BA style distributor. For transmission I have tried a 49 mercury 3 speed OD. Now I am using world class S 10 5 speed with 3.89 rear end. RPM at 60 Mph is just under 2000 RPM. Flatheads are traditional and acceptable (all of them). Build what you want. Give it an overdrive to make it live longer and more enjoyable.
yeah, only a girl would want the silly looking distributor on top the motor! just kidding, i, and many others just like the look of the older block set ups, which all will bolt on a 8ba if you wish. some folks like that the dizzy is easy to work on when up top (where girls put them) . take your pick, it doesnt matter. i dont think anyone has ever proved any of the myths about one block being better than the other, 59 vs 8ba, but again, take your pick. overdrive is certainly a nice thing to have, it can get expensive, and not as strong as a 9" ford, but how do yo want to drive it?
This kind of info is why you have to be real careful who you take advice from. Time to change what you think of this Chap.
One thing you will find is always true no matter what you build and how you build it .......someone will always have a negative opinion. Even if you change engines they will tell you how you should have done something else different. On the other hand you will find a lot more people who want to talk to you about what you did, how and why you did it, and how well you like it. Your opinion and what you like is the important thing.
I guess the best OHV Ford engine ever made (I am biased because it turned heads as much as their big motors did) --- the 302 was a girly motor too. Shades of blush. The distributor is upside away from the radiator where on pre-'49 Flatheads, aka boiler motors, it stayed wet as a baby's butt from leaks, shorted out and ran ragged to none. I clearly remember more than once using burning paper to remedy the situation and limp home from the boonies. I ran a herd of those myself so I know whereof I speak. One in, believe it or not a '32 Chevy coupe. Ford has evolved, perhaps differently from their rivals because of management, but still achieved an enviable status based on fixing problems in a swat the fly with a baseball bat style. Often though, all said and done, they change directions so interchange is impossible. I can see retrofitting a distributor to the end of the crankshaft to eliminate spark chatter but it ends up in a draft that carries rain water to it. Silicone may help but Murphy says it best. And, a 'driver/beater/cruiser' is always about the pink bunny style. All you want to do is keep going and going without glitches. I disliked the three speed overdrives because they free wheeled if left in OD. Add poor brakes and fast speeds and it gets hairy, especially where curves pop up. Whew!
8BA not a real flathead? Stupid is stupid. I laugh in their faces. Who do they think they are? Your build. Do it the way you want. Screw those other clowns.
A .030 over '51 Merc flathead w/dual 97s on an Edelbrock intake, Edelbrock heads, Isky cam, Mallory Electronic distributor, B-W T5 out of an S10, 9" Ford w/3.70:1, 235/75R15 tire = 65-70mph at 1800 RPM. Smile!!
I love the 8ba in my coupe but personally dont get into all the later transmission stuff. I run Ford 3 speeds as the good Lord intended. I love all flatheads and have run the 21 stud which was a great engine as well. Theyre all rad.
Thanks to all of you for taking the time and effort to reply here is a post showing photos of the r10 overdrive I’m considering - and trying to figure out if I can swap with the other trans shown - the gears in that one in much better shape was also trying to decode some of the I’d number particulars but no dice yet modern greenhorn’s ‘28 Coupe build
I've had both the earlier version, non-synchro first and the later all synchro 3sp+od. LOve them both, a lot of fun., if you are coordinated and can use BOTH hands AND feet while driving. They are actually 5 speeds...1st, 2nd, 2nd overdrive, 3rd, 3rd overdrive. There's a guy with an off topic v-8 in a '49 half ton with the early version Muncie 319 3sp+od, he reports that it is amazing fun.
Thanks olds man that is the intention but I also value the opportunity to ask for and the wisdom others far more experienced than I are willing to share before I build it and drive the hell out of it - I want to learn what my options are and some possible dos and donts so I Can in fact build it the way I want and then when I do tear it down the road I am happy with doing so no mechanical skills or training, no hot rod knowledge other than what I’m learning here and sadly no experience driving flatheads - 3 speed toploaders or 8bas w overdrive ... yet just a passion for and excitement to hopefully fulfill my long dream of building my own traditional 50s ride - so everything I can find and read, and all the various opinions and info are incredibly valuable and appreciated for instance – another question – I was planning on putting my three speed Toploader into an original A-frame with a 32K member - if I go down the route of the later engine and transmission w overdrive can I still use the K member set up so much to learn but I’m loving it all as I take the baby steps
chassis set up 101 don't start until you know the look you want, stance, ride height and wheel/tire combo. fender or no fenders? print off chassis dimensions, they are easy to find. Pete and Jakes has a ton of info. purchase this if using an original chassis, check for squareness, make necessary repairs will the K member need modified? You are building a hot rod, so more than likely yes. start fitting the pieces, chassis, body, axles, engine and trans, radiator and shell. there is a ton of info here, use the search function. Look up A V8 info. post ?s here no question is too ridiculous and all questions will be ridiculed by someone
Ok didn’t know you were a somewhat new guy. Vern tardels book will be a great help to you. Also pick the brains on here and read the build threads.
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