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Technical Getting Real Frustrated with these Headlights

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by jaw22w, Jul 25, 2020.

  1. jaw22w
    Joined: Mar 2, 2013
    Posts: 1,671

    jaw22w
    Member
    from Indiana

    About a month ago I posted this thread, THE NIGHT THE LIGHTS WENT OUT IN INDIANA! Well my headlights have gone out twice since then. High and low. I'm not very electrically inclined, but I wired the car about five years ago with a kit . About a year ago I put the relay system in it. Last night was the last straw. LOL, I had bought 2 of those lithium ion high powered flashlights for the car the day before, so I got home pretty easy.
    As I was trying to diagnose the problem, both times the lights just came back on without me changing anything. So obviously there is a wire somewhere that is making and breaking connection. It has a relay system, so it's not as simple as a regular system. My problem is that when the lights come back on I am screwed as far as further diagnosis. Can't fix it when it ain't broke. I hate the thought of rewiring the whole headlight system, but that might be the only way.
    The thought just occured to me that since both high and low go out that it must be the power supply side of the relay system that is loosing connection. I have been starting my testing at the ignition switch then moving to the dimmer switch, then to the relays. This time I guess I need to start at the starter which is where the power is drawn for the headlight system. OK. I got to get it on the lift and see what's going on or start rewiring. I guess the real question is how to you test, diagnose, and repair an electrical system when there's nothing wrong with it????
    Thanks for listening. Writing it out helped organize my thoughts.
     
  2. barnsearcher
    Joined: Jul 19, 2010
    Posts: 86

    barnsearcher
    Member
    from Ohio

    It does sound like something is heating up, probably from a poor connection, then creating an open. With the headlights operational I would try measuring the volt drop across every connector in the circuit including the relays. If it's consuming voltage it is building heat. Don't forget to check volt drop on both power and ground sides of the circuit. Good Luck
     
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  3. Joe H
    Joined: Feb 10, 2008
    Posts: 1,525

    Joe H
    Member

    For sure check the ground side, it might help to run a dedicated ground wire off each light socket back to the frame or battery.
     
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  4. Being your pretty sure the relay and wire itself are okay check out the dimmer switch. In fact I wouldn't do anything but try hard to make them go out again and then flip the dimmer several times and see what happens. I'd be doing that close to home of course. I don't know how I'd go about testing the dimmer switch. The one in my 51 often will not ight the High Beam until I hit the switch 2 or 3 times. I know I need to replace it. The low beams always come back on while flipping back and forth. It's the switch that came with my wire kit and know it says CHINA on it.
     
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  5. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 55,931

    squirrel
    Member

    I would not bother with checking the ignition switch, since it is not in the circuit....is it?

    Did the problem happen before you added the relay?

    How are the headlights grounded? Usually there is a 3 wire plug that attaches to the bulb. Hi, Lo, and Ground wires. That ground wire needs to be connected to a good ground, as mentioned. If it's attached to something on the body, or the headlight buckets, and they are mounted on a bar, that is attached to painted fenders, there might be a bad ground.

    If the light switch has a defect, it can work and then stop working and then work again. Some of them have a circuit breaker built in, which can switch on and off by itself.

    There are probably a few wire connections in the harness, between the battery, and the light switch.

    the dimmer switch can also suddenly switch off.

    You might want to spend some time wiggling things around, see if the lights go out when you move any part of the system.

    good luck, intermittent problems are a real pain to diagnose.
     
  6. harpo1313
    Joined: Jan 4, 2008
    Posts: 2,584

    harpo1313
    Member
    from wareham,ma

    Ground to the relay is where i would start
     
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  7. Check all connections. I had an issue with my headlights once; found it to be the power lead to the headlight switch wasn't locked in mechanically to the plastic connector. When I plugged the connector into the headlight switch, the wire wasn't really on the terminal.
     
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  8. Phil1934
    Joined: Jun 24, 2001
    Posts: 2,716

    Phil1934
    Member

    Lights coming back on could be headlight switch circuit breaker resetting if it is a modern one. So not an intermittent problem but one of overheating or bad headlight switch. I'd do a switch first.
     
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  9. jaw22w
    Joined: Mar 2, 2013
    Posts: 1,671

    jaw22w
    Member
    from Indiana

    Each headlight has a ground wire directly to frame.

    I have checked for power to the dimmer from the ignition switch. Check. I have checked continuity between power and high, and between power and low. Both good. I think trying to make them go out again might be worth a try.
    The problem is only after the relays were installed. The headlights are ground wired directly to frame. I know most electrical problems are due to grounds, but I'm pretty confident that's not the case here.

    I've got it on the lift now and just ready to get in there. The relays are mounted on the right side frame rail just behind the radiator. I think I will check for power at the relays from the starter first. If that checks out OK. I guess I will go to jiggling wires. No success there and out comes the wire clippers.
     
  10. Looking through the posts I did not see where you have completely rewired the car. I would definitely put a fuse in that circuit before going too far. A low enough one to start so it will blow with just a small load then after finding and fixing the problem go up to the recommended amperage rating for the headlights.
     
  11. jaw22w
    Joined: Mar 2, 2013
    Posts: 1,671

    jaw22w
    Member
    from Indiana

    Headlight switch got replaced the first time they went out. Less than a month old.
     
  12. jaw22w
    Joined: Mar 2, 2013
    Posts: 1,671

    jaw22w
    Member
    from Indiana

    I wired the whole car with a kit. It has been over 5 years ago. The power supply from the starter to the relays has a 50A maxi fuse in it. It would take a lot to blow that I would guess.
     
  13. Mine had issues with the dimmer switch.
    Old switch with a bad connection.
     
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  14. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 55,931

    squirrel
    Member

    Since the problem started when you added the relay for the headlights...that's where I'd start looking.

    Why did you add the relay? I don't have headlight relays on any of my old cars, and the headlights work fine.
     
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  15. Yes it would. Is that the only fuse in the entire car?
     
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  16. Exactly where he should start.
     
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  17. Don’t need the HL to be on to diagnose
    The switch should have power. If no power at the switch, check power supply.
    If you have power at the switch, check dimmer.
    Then work forward.
     
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  18. jaw22w
    Joined: Mar 2, 2013
    Posts: 1,671

    jaw22w
    Member
    from Indiana

    The relay system had been working for a year or so. Then this started. I added the relays because I wasn't happy with the headlight output. The added juice at the lights without the loss in the old long circuit and wired all the way to the headlights with 10 gauge wire really made a big difference with the halogen headlights.
    Yeah I know it's in that relay circuit somewhere.
     
  19. jaw22w
    Joined: Mar 2, 2013
    Posts: 1,671

    jaw22w
    Member
    from Indiana

    20 circuit kit. Probably 20 fuses, but as far as I know there is no fuse in the box for the headlights, only the 50 amp maxi fuse added as recommended in the power supply line to the relays.
     
  20. agree on the relay(s)....30 years of hydro power generation work convinced me.... it's always the relay.....except for when shit blows up ....or floods...... or burns to the ground......seriously, relays look a good place to start if system was originally ok, grounding too is always a suspicious area.....good luck
     
    VANDENPLAS and jaw22w like this.
  21. On a personal note here. The only time I run relays on headlights is when running Halogen lights. I have had issues with the increase in Amp draw and old style contact switches, cheep replacement switches are worse. With standard seal beams, never have installed relays. That said my 51 has Halogen seal beams and the stock 6V switch and no relays. The weak link is that cheep dimmer switch.
     
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  22. jaw22w
    Joined: Mar 2, 2013
    Posts: 1,671

    jaw22w
    Member
    from Indiana

    Yes that is exactly what I did. Just chased power out to the relays. But with the relay system you have a control side and a power supply side. My problem has to be on the power side.
    OKAY! Enough typing. I'm getting in there.
     
    anthony myrick likes this.
  23. My new wire system fuse block has a 30 amp circuit breaker in the Fuse socket for the Headlights and has never tripped.
     
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  24. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 55,931

    squirrel
    Member

    Don't count on it having to be on the power side...look everywhere.
     
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  25. jaw22w
    Joined: Mar 2, 2013
    Posts: 1,671

    jaw22w
    Member
    from Indiana

    Wahoo!!! I can't believe how lucky I just got. Thinking power side, I turned on the HL switch and got under it. Checked it out before grabbing any thing. First wire I touched. I hear a little electrical snap right at the relay at the power wire and the lights come on. Check continuity in the wire and it is good. The starter end has a ring terminal. So I cleaned it up good. The other end is a spade terminal to the relay. The spade terminal was extremely loose. I figure that had to be the problem. There is no visible corrosion. I cleaned it up real good, greased it, tightened up the fit, and put it back together. Lights are on. I can't find anything else wrong. I hope that fixes it, but I'm not taking those 2 LED flashlights out of the car yet though. Turns out the jiggle method works pretty good.
    Thanks guys.
     
  26. jaw22w
    Joined: Mar 2, 2013
    Posts: 1,671

    jaw22w
    Member
    from Indiana

    Really the only big amp draw never goes through any switches, only though the relays.
    I am running Halogen sealed beams also. I know that before the relays I was worried about outrunning my headlights at 50 mph. Now I can run 70 on a dark country road easily.
     
  27. jaw22w
    Joined: Mar 2, 2013
    Posts: 1,671

    jaw22w
    Member
    from Indiana

    My kit was a 20 circuit. I didn't use them all. Each circuit is labeled on the fuse box, but there is no socket labeled "Headlights". As I said, I'm not very electrical, so there could be something I'm not seeing. I wondered why no fuse for the headlights when I wired it. Maybe there is something in the fuse block?
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2020
  28. I think the label on the Fuse Panel actually says just lights, not Headlights. That's the power lead to the Light Switch.
     
  29. okiedokie
    Joined: Jul 5, 2005
    Posts: 4,778

    okiedokie
    Member
    from Ok

    Listen to post-n-broke. If it happens again check dimmer.
     
  30. Thanks for posting back and letting us know we helped you in some way. As Pist-n-Broke said if it does recur check the dimmer switch.
     
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