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Hot Rods Who designed the Donovan 417 Hemi based on the 392 Chrysler?

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by SLOson, Jul 16, 2020.

  1. SLOson
    Joined: May 10, 2020
    Posts: 17

    SLOson
    Member
    from California

    I had always guessed it was Ed Donovan himself. Then I learned that Mr. Donovan had worked with the great Leo Goossen at Offenhauser/Meyer & Drake Engineering Corp., where Mr. Goossen had befriended and mentored him. That made me guess that along with Mr. Donovan, Mr. Goossen also played a big part in the design of the 417?

    However somewhere along the way I read that a retired Chrysler Corp. engineer did the heavy lifting, under contract with Donovan. The problem is, I can't find the source, or the name of the engineer. Anybody here happen to know? Thank you.
     
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  2. Marty Strode
    Joined: Apr 28, 2011
    Posts: 8,801

    Marty Strode
    Member

    I would bet Dick Crawford had a hand in it, longtime Donovan employee.
     
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  3. Pete Eastwood
    Joined: Jul 27, 2011
    Posts: 1,324

    Pete Eastwood
    Member
    from california

    Yes , Dick Crawford did the blueprints for the " Donovan 417 "
    Dick was a friend , & one evening he put on a slide show for a group of us .
    The show was of shots he took, from the foundry , when they poured the first " 417 " blocks.
    One of the things I found interesting was , at that time most of the foundry workers
    at the Los Angeles based foundry were African / American . Today most are Hispanic .
    Dick also had a side business " Orday " which made little items drag racers needed .
    Fuel filters , a plate to bolt to the top blower pulley with a 1/2 inch square hole to put
    the breaker bar to turn over the engine while doing the servicing ,
    ( before the blower snouts came with the square hole ) & other stuff .
     
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  4. Marty Strode
    Joined: Apr 28, 2011
    Posts: 8,801

    Marty Strode
    Member

    Pete,
    I bought some velocity stacks, with screens, to fit 97's from him, he made beautiful parts. A while later, I was at an Ascot Reunion, and got to meet him in person, a delightful man ! I do remember having a box with Orday on it, never knew the connection to Dick.
     
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  5. SLOson
    Joined: May 10, 2020
    Posts: 17

    SLOson
    Member
    from California

    Thank you.

    That's the name I think I remember... Was Mr. Crawford a draftsman, or did he work as an engineer on the project? Do you happen to know if he once worked for Chrysler Corp?

    Black foundry employees were very common back in the day. At a place like Ford, it was the toughest, hottest, most grueling job at the Rouge. Before unions, they could stick who they pleased in those jobs. As anyone who has overdone it physically while working (or working out) knows, serious overexertion can lead to diarrhea.

    The solution at Ford? "bind up their innards with a slurry of cornstarch and water!" When the great migration to the West Coast began during WWII, experienced foundrymen -- many black, found good jobs in LA County and the Bay Area in the defense industries.
     
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  6. SLOson
    Joined: May 10, 2020
    Posts: 17

    SLOson
    Member
    from California

    "...Donovan's chief engineer. Bob Mullen, produced the drawings for the engine. Arnold Birner made the precision wood patterns for the block, girdle and cylinder liners. Dick Crawford established the tooling requirements for drag racing's first aluminum engine block.

    After the casting and machining procedures unique to the Donovan 417 were worked out, the engine was offered to eager drag racers in 1971. The engine made its debut at the NHRA Super-Nationals in John Wiebe's rail, setting a low ET for the racers of 6.53 sec.

    Proof of the 417's viability and durability is the fact the engine is still manufactured and sold today. Donovan went on to offer an aluminum 350/400 small-block in 1978. He followed this with an aluminum-block 427/454 in 1983..."


    Ref: https://www.turbobuicks.com/forums/waiting-room/63191-rjc-racing-engine-girdle-study-3.html

    Now that I am able to search using Mr. Crawford's name, I am finding a lot more information. Anyone remember Mr. Mullen?
     
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  7. 5window
    Joined: Jan 29, 2005
    Posts: 9,517

    5window
    Member

    Very interesting story.
     
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  8. SLOson
    Joined: May 10, 2020
    Posts: 17

    SLOson
    Member
    from California

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  9. SLOson
    Joined: May 10, 2020
    Posts: 17

    SLOson
    Member
    from California

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  10. SLOson
    Joined: May 10, 2020
    Posts: 17

    SLOson
    Member
    from California

    It sounds like Bob Mullen was an early Ramcharger:
     
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  11. Deuces
    Joined: Nov 3, 2009
    Posts: 23,757

    Deuces

    Cool info on the Donovan 417 and the folks behind it!!!!.... Thanks for posting this thread!!!.....:)
     
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  12. Beanscoot
    Joined: May 14, 2008
    Posts: 3,056

    Beanscoot
    Member

    On a different note, why did they base the Donovan engine on the 392, several years after the 426 Hemi was in production?
     
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  13. dreracecar
    Joined: Aug 27, 2009
    Posts: 3,476

    dreracecar
    Member
    from so-cal

    The influence Offy had on the 417, was the 1 pc lower crank girdle. While plenty strong , it required 36 bolts/studs to remove to check the main bearings which in itself was a PITA. When a rod was thrown, the girdle to most of the hit but in its design, there was a stud/bolt in line with the rod to strengthen that area and that usually meant damage to the block. With new blocks come the option of 1 piece girdle or a 7piece billet version
     
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  14. dreracecar
    Joined: Aug 27, 2009
    Posts: 3,476

    dreracecar
    Member
    from so-cal

    The 392/417 was designed as a hemi whereas the 426 was a retrofit. include that the 426 weighs 100# more than the 417. The 392/417 runs a seperate valley cover plate and top end oil it contained, lift a blower on a 462 and take the manifold with it, drivers get a flaming hot bath of oil. Donovan were not replaced with a better engine design, They just could not keep up with the demand
     
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  15. rooman
    Joined: Sep 20, 2006
    Posts: 4,045

    rooman
    Member

  16. SLOson
    Joined: May 10, 2020
    Posts: 17

    SLOson
    Member
    from California

    I'm not sure that's the case when comparing a Donovan 417 to a Keith Black 426...

    Is that really true? It seems like KB and Milodon pretty much buried Donovan in the fuel classes?
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2020
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  17. SLOson
    Joined: May 10, 2020
    Posts: 17

    SLOson
    Member
    from California

    Richard Lee Crawford, BHS 1939

    [​IMG]
    Richard Lee Crawford, BHS 1939 .......June 29, 1921 - January 14, 2016 ...... Dick was born in Burbank to his parents Richard and Nora Crawford. He attended Burbank Schools, graduating from Burbank High School in 1939. Dick served in the Navy from 1940-1944. He married Elizabeth Katherine Burgess, known to all as Betty, in 1942. They had two sons, Richard James and Robert Lee Crawford.

    He owned Orday Speed Shop in Burbank from 1959 - 1980. He sold the business and moved to Huntington Beach, where he went to work for Donovan Engineering, continuing his love for racing. There he designed the Billet Aluminum Block for racing engines. He had a 50 year Masonic affiliation and was a 33rd degree Mason.

    He is preceded in death by his son Robert Lee. He is survived by his loving wife of 74 years, his son Richard, two grandsons, Rick and Todd, and a great grandson Alan. He will be missed by all in the racing circle, his family and friends.

    Published The Burbank Leader, January 30, 2016.

    http://bhsinmemoriam.blogspot.com/2016/03/richard-lee-crawford-bhs-1939.html
     
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  18. Chuck Heald
    Joined: Oct 21, 2021
    Posts: 3

    Chuck Heald

    Late to the party but I'll toss this in.

    I worked for Bob Mullen in the mid 70s. Bob was a soft spoken, modest man of great knowledge in the engine world.

    While there, I saw Bignotti Racing Offy cylinder/head assemblies come and go. So, one day I asked Bob about them. He had redesigned the ports for the Bignotti team and they were getting new custom cylinder/heads made and sent to Mullen & Co. in Carson, CA where I worked as his machinist. Our guys were finish porting them and sending them to Bignotti.

    I started spending evenings after work talking to Bob. He shared that he had designed the Donovan 417. My recollection was that the 417 was sucessful but short lived, because the others like Black, Arias and the like, jumped in with 426 designs.

    Also, while there, I befriended a guy named Steele, just down the way in the little shop complex in Carson. Steele had a funny accent and was always upbeat and tinkering on something or another. He often came by to get something or another. He was working on a 2L Ford (Pinto) engine head for a little Brit car he intended to install it in. I was working on the same type engine for my Pinto. I had done some port raising and he was very interested in the flow data I had gathered from testing on Bob's bench. Little did I know he was a part of the Shelby LeMans Cobra and GT40 team not that long before. Another soft spoken man. RIP Steele Therkelson.

    I heard that Bob sold Mullen & Co. porting to someone and went to work for Garrett AiResearch in Torrance where he managed the team responsible for Renault F1 Turbocharger development. Years later, I met Jim Finn who worked for Bob at Garrett during that time. Jim went on to be a propulsion engineer at Boeing and later, director of engineering for a division. I recently saw him again on a wine tasting trip.

    I didn't keep in touch with Bob Mullen. He was 50 in the mid 70s. I suppose he's long gone. But you never know. His father came out to CA and worked in the shop and he was in his 90s at the time.
     
  19. 1320 Fan
    Joined: Jan 6, 2009
    Posts: 211

    1320 Fan
    Member

    I recall that Bob Mullen's company in 1974 did the finish work on the Pro Stock 426 Hemi D5 heads and most likely the design as well. He may have already moved on to Garrett Research by then. He did have the respect of Chrysler's race division at that time.
     
  20. Chuck Heald
    Joined: Oct 21, 2021
    Posts: 3

    Chuck Heald

    Bob was still running Mullen & Co. in 1974-75. That was when I was working there. We were doing the modifications to the D6 Hemi heads by putting in a larger set of valves. I made the valves from forgings that Bob had outsource made. I also machined the aluminum heads to accept larger valve seats. The valves had to sunken deeper to allow them to fit. I did made a lot of valves and installed a lot of seats in that year I worked for Bob. Bob had a very large valve from an industrial engine, several times the size of the Hemi valves we made. He had me machine that big valve to replicate the D6 valves, including the swirl polished back side. He had that in his office last I saw it.

    We did a lot of heads for Direct Connection (Mopar). I recall the small block mopar heads like the someone posted in another forum https://board.moparts.org/ubbthread...id-70s-nos-mullen-small-block-race-heads.html The one posted has the valve pocket deep secondary seat angles ground with their orbital seat grinder. I can tell by the finish. When I got there and set up his new Bridgeport mill and made the head holding fixtures, he started having me machine the deep pocket secondart angles. That left a different finish, with a bit of chatter that was similar to the factory machined heads. In fact, when we worked on 340 Super Sport class drag racer heads, I cut the pockets larger (a violation of the SS rules) and I was asked to replicate the cutter chatter that factory stock heads had. I did quite a few of those.

    I was surfing around and found an article where Dyno Don Nicholson was said to have gotten raised exhaust port 351 Cleveland heads prepped from Mullen around the time I was there. Bob had not done any 351C heads with the raised plate port until I machined some, which I believe went to Nicholson. Those were the only raised port 351C heads I did while there. Machining that step in those cast iron heads was hard on that little Bridgeport and I told Bob it was beating up his new mill. He found one of those "roughing" endmills that has the grooves in it. That really helped, but it was still a big end mill for that little mill.
    .
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2021
  21. pitman
    Joined: May 14, 2006
    Posts: 5,148

    pitman

    Saw one of these blocks at Reg Bernier's garage, Nottingham, NH. :eek:
    Al-Lu-Min-Knee-Umm.
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2021
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