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Projects 1940 Ford 4-door restoration project in Europe

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by cjtwigt, Jul 31, 2018.

  1. lewk
    Joined: Apr 8, 2011
    Posts: 1,008

    lewk
    Member
    from Mt

    Your videos “holding up dollys” are essentially what I’m calling a bucking bar. I think we have some bonnet/hood, crescent wrench/adjustable spanner different names in different parts of the English speaking world stuff going on. It’s my understanding that in the golden era of riveting people usually worked in 3 person teams. A guy would run the furnace, a guy would position and back the rivet, and a guy would run the gun. I was working alone. I took my bolt out, placed my rivet, and backed it with my bucking bar/holding up dolly. I mostly used 6”-10” long chunks of 1”x2” rectangular 304L stainless bar that I scooped from the scrap bin at work because that’s what I could find easily. I clamped the crap out of them with C clamps because I was working alone. I had good luck just using the flat bar with no indents, but my rivets do have slight flats on them from that. I was able to get the rivet red hot by quickly heating the shank. I think lingering would heat the frame rails and bucking bar. My rivets shrank and tightened as they should. Clamping the bucking bar was slow and tedious. I wouldn’t want to pay anyone to do it that way but as a way to repair my frame working alone it worked well.


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  2. cjtwigt
    Joined: Dec 23, 2017
    Posts: 148

    cjtwigt
    Member

    It has been a while ago since my last update.
    I’m going to post some updates this week.

    They are all chassis updates. I’m still repairing it.

    In order to repair this see-through outer rail I made a 3-feet replacement part. It will also replace the rust damaged underside.

    IMG_6786.JPG
    IMG_6781.JPG

    I have also replaced part of the outer rail at the front. This part is curved as well which makes it a little harder. However I also have some compound curve challenges ahead of me on the other side of the chassis so this seems to be the right order - easy stuff first :)

    IMG_6841.JPG

    IMG_6842.JPG

    IMG_6846.JPG

    I tried several butt weld tests in order to find the best technique to prevent warping.

    IMG_6870.JPG

    In the end I found that this recipe works best:

    - use a 0.1” gap
    - use a 2.4mm filler wire (I use TIG)
    - weld in the horizontal plane
    - clamp everything securely in place
    - clamp a sheet of aluminum under the weld to prevent the molten steel to sink (because we will use a lot of amps)
    - make 3 tacks to keep the replacement part in position, then:
    - tack every inch. Good solid tacks! start tacking from the middle of the weld and proceed tacking outwards. After every tack jam a couple of screw drivers in the gap to keep the 0.1” gap while you let the tack cool.
    - if you are happy with your tacks and the position of the replacement part but you have failed to keep a 0.1” gap then take the grinder and grind the gap to 0.1”

    Do final welding:

    - again start at the middle of the weld. The general movement is outward from the middle of the weld toward the ends.
    - weld at most 1” at the time and then let it cool down.
    - Weld that 1” in the direction toward the middle of the weld. So against the general direction of the weld.
    - Start every 1” weld right next to a tack (not on the tack) but do weld through the tack you left in the previous pass. This way you get maximum support from the tack to maintain the 0.1” gap.
    - use 106 amps for welding 0.1” sheet steel.

    You will notice that there is not a lot of tendency to warp when you weld this way but do clamp the shit out of everything. The more clamping the more accurate your result.

    The 0.1” gap makes for easy penetration, clamping a sheet of aluminum under the weld spreads the heat and using 106 amps is more than usual but these factors allow you to weld faster which results in less heat being inserted into the weld, meaning less warping.




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  3. cjtwigt
    Joined: Dec 23, 2017
    Posts: 148

    cjtwigt
    Member

    This is a repair of the driver side outer frame rail at the front using the process I described in my previous post.

    IMG_6879.JPG
    IMG_6878.JPG
    IMG_6890.JPG IMG_6899.JPG
    IMG_6903.JPG
    IMG_6958.JPG

    It has turned out well - no warping at all - and after grinding down the welds I hope it will appear like this never happened.



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  4. 33Doll
    Joined: Sep 27, 2019
    Posts: 1,374

    33Doll

    The First two pictures look real familiar! I just did this a couple months ago!
    IMG_8845.JPG IMG_8853.JPG IMG_8858.JPG IMG_8862.JPG IMG_8873.JPG
     
  5. cjtwigt
    Joined: Dec 23, 2017
    Posts: 148

    cjtwigt
    Member

    This is another big repair. You can see the replacement part is positioned next to the frame. I intend to keep a 0.1” gap but I first cut the replacement part to match exactly and then remove 0.1” to creat the gap.

    IMG_6992.JPG

    I mark the cut and I write the original height of the frame rail on top of the frame rail ever couple of inches for reference.

    IMG_7004.JPG

    Hete the replacement part is in position.

    IMG_7078.JPG

    And here is the frame without it.

    IMG_7163.JPG

    Since the inner frame also needs repair and since it runs into the outer rail at the back we need to think ahead and I decided it is best to cut the rot out of that one as well at this time because it will result in better access to the outer rail.

    IMG_7168.JPG

    I marked a path to cut along in such a way that I can cut the big holes in the replacement part before I weld it in. This is especially important for the smaller hole at the rear because I can not drill that when the replacement part is welded in without damaging the outer rail if that is also repaired.

    IMG_7178.JPG

    With the inner rail also cleared of rot this is what you get and it is quite amazing just how strong this still is though I’m really happy with the chassis table to support the rear part of the chassis.

    IMG_7181.JPG


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  6. cjtwigt
    Joined: Dec 23, 2017
    Posts: 148

    cjtwigt
    Member

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  7. cjtwigt
    Joined: Dec 23, 2017
    Posts: 148

    cjtwigt
    Member

    So I cut this out of the inner rail which means I need to make a replacement for it.

    [​IMG]

    But first I started welding in the outer rail replacement part.

    [​IMG]

    I’m not taking chances and I use all clamps I own.

    [​IMG]

    With a tack at every inch I start welding in the middle. Towards the outer ends of the weld. An inch at the time in direction to the middle (opposite to the general welding direction).

    [​IMG]

    All welded and mounted the chassis table again.

    [​IMG]

    This is what it looks like on the inside with the inner frame rail still unrepaired.

    [​IMG]



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    Attached Files:

  8. cjtwigt
    Joined: Dec 23, 2017
    Posts: 148

    cjtwigt
    Member

    Started on the inner rail repair which is kind of hard because I do no have an original inner rail for reference.

    I started with a cardboard mold. I have this really handy 1mm thick white cardboard lying around but I do not know where to buy more if I need to.

    [​IMG]

    I cut 0.1” sheet steel and bent it by hand in a vice. The vertical lines I scribbled are for reference since the piece has an odd shape and the bends must be made along these lines and by the time I get to the vice to bend it I no longer know along which line to bend..

    [​IMG]

    The replacement part behind the original..

    [​IMG]

    To be continued..


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  9. 33Doll
    Joined: Sep 27, 2019
    Posts: 1,374

    33Doll

    Yes
    IMG_8893.JPG IMG_8894.JPG IMG_8888.JPG IMG_8900.JPG F2AC7061-CEBB-472D-8613-40A004ADEDFE.jpeg 5EE1FB27-F4CC-4320-99CE-DAD243767A1B.jpeg
     
  10. 33Doll
    Joined: Sep 27, 2019
    Posts: 1,374

    33Doll

    IMG_8920.JPG IMG_8892.JPG

    It was-a good learning experience.
    I then went on and did the body part of it. If you follow my thread you could see it.
     
  11. 33Doll
    Joined: Sep 27, 2019
    Posts: 1,374

    33Doll

    I wear surgical gloves
     
  12. cjtwigt
    Joined: Dec 23, 2017
    Posts: 148

    cjtwigt
    Member

    That is a good idea. I had my chassis blasted after removing the grease with a screw driver to get rid of the intense amount of dust. It is so much nicer to work with bare metal. Besides I have a very tight garage and having so much dust in so few air is a health hazard.


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  13. cjtwigt
    Joined: Dec 23, 2017
    Posts: 148

    cjtwigt
    Member

    This where I left of in my last update. I have drilled the two 2” holes in the repair section. The bottom of the repair section is up next.

    [​IMG]

    In orde to repair my inner frame rails I had this profile made to resemble the radius of the original frame rails.

    [​IMG]

    In order to curve the bottom of the repair section I made a cut in order to be able to bend it.

    [​IMG]

    And then I welded it around the bend.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    I then tacked the bottom to the vertical repair section while clamping it to the bottom of the outer frame rail.

    [​IMG]

    There is no amount of clamping...

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    The end result. There is a small strip of copper still jammed between the inner and outer rail to prevent welding them together:

    [​IMG]



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  14. cjtwigt
    Joined: Dec 23, 2017
    Posts: 148

    cjtwigt
    Member

    Now I’m doing the same repairs on the other side of the frame. Welding the new repair section.

    [​IMG]

    For this:

    [​IMG]

    This is an even longer repair section that stretches beyond the compound curve halfway the frame where the out rail bends both inward and upward.

    [​IMG]

    I cut the rot out of the inner rail as well for better access to the outer rail.

    [​IMG]

    Final welding. This is a very long weld when you let things cool down after welding every inch.

    [​IMG]

    I bought these repair sections to expedite the work on the chassis. They are very accurately made.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    It is bolted in for now. It is nice to make some visible progress without too much elbow grease.

    [​IMG]

    There is only 7 repairs left to do on the frame now. Almost there.


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  15. BFXJason
    Joined: Jan 2, 2018
    Posts: 87

    BFXJason

    Looking great Chris!!! Great job!!!
     
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  16. cjtwigt
    Joined: Dec 23, 2017
    Posts: 148

    cjtwigt
    Member

    Thank you very much Jason!!!
     
  17. Nice job! Thanks for the update, keep them coming. Your project has been nice to follow.
     
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  18. The 39 guy
    Joined: Nov 5, 2010
    Posts: 3,524

    The 39 guy
    Member

    Hi Chris, you are doing outstanding work and your detailed explanations and pictures of the techniques you are using are very educational and entertaining. I think I should ship my old 39 frame to you for you to rebuild.

    Sam
     
    lothiandon1940 likes this.
  19. Nice work Chris. Very professional

    Groeten Hennie
     
  20. cjtwigt
    Joined: Dec 23, 2017
    Posts: 148

    cjtwigt
    Member

    Another update. Still working on the frame.

    It turned out there was more rot than expected on the passenger side so the replacement part I made was not large enough.

    [​IMG]

    Still every now and then a stone appears.

    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]

    This replacement part is really long and I needed a lot of time to make it fit perfectly on the top edge.

    [​IMG]

    At the front it must follow the curve in the rail. It did not succeed to make it follow that bend AND be flush with the frame. I will need to partially cut and re-weld here.

    [​IMG]

    The inner frame repair was successful though. Here you see the initial repair section I made.

    [​IMG]

    Welding it to the lower repair section I made..

    [​IMG]

    Here it is ready to be welded to the frame.

    [​IMG]

    I prefer welding in the horizontal plane with a piece of aluminium clamped under the weld so I turned the welding table.

    [​IMG]

    Just a few more repairs to do.


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  21. cjtwigt
    Joined: Dec 23, 2017
    Posts: 148

    cjtwigt
    Member

    I already repaired the driver side outer rail at the front and rear. In between there is a piece that is on the edge in terms of required thickness. I decided to replace that as well.

    What is the basis on which you decide to replace sections. That question I was asking myself in this case. Because in most spots the rail is thick enough. I ended up using a light source like below to decide where and when to cut. As you can see the light indicates the problem area very clearly.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    I made the replacement part:

    [​IMG]

    To prevent warping this time I welded some temporary struts to keep the replacement part in the desired orientation.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    This replacement part I made perfectly fits the underside and allows bending to follow the curve of the frame in the vertical plane.
    In hindsight I think I should have followed the most direct path by making a corner weld to minimize warping cause by 2 welds I need.

    [​IMG]

    Fitting it here. It fits perfectly. But that is only before welding/warping. I’m clamping the frame down to the table - pulling it towards the table by 1/2” - to compensate for the warping that I expect.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]




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  22. The 39 guy
    Joined: Nov 5, 2010
    Posts: 3,524

    The 39 guy
    Member

    Thanks for a very well documented report on very difficult and technical part of your project Chris. This type of project is seldom covered on the HAMB. You are doing a great job on the frame!
     
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  23. cjtwigt
    Joined: Dec 23, 2017
    Posts: 148

    cjtwigt
    Member

    Thank you for your encouraging words Sam.

    Although I like the work repairing the frame is taking a lot more time than I expected. I'm still learning how to do it properly, efficiently and I'm still improving my welding in the process. So it is time well-spent. On the other hand I'm looking forward to the "next chapter". Fortunately after this weld there is only one more big section to replace.

    Take care. Be real careful with that virus. It is nasty and some people do not fully recover.

    Regards,
    Chris
     
  24. Yep great work going on there ! Sadly those old X frames just were hard to keep dirt out of and as most roads were not paved even around all of the cities. Have a few 37/40 frames and they all have it in different places.
     
  25. BFXJason
    Joined: Jan 2, 2018
    Posts: 87

    BFXJason

    Great job Chris. Quality work! I'm sure you are ready for that next chapter, but there is a piece of mind knowing the frame is done right!

    Jason
     
  26. cjtwigt
    Joined: Dec 23, 2017
    Posts: 148

    cjtwigt
    Member

    It has been a long time since my last post.

    I was about to weld in a long repair section at the bottom of the outer rail. Here you can see it tacked and ready for welding.

    [​IMG]

    After TIG-in’ the first couple of inches it became clear that excessive warping was inevitable it might not be visible in the photo below but up close it was visibly going south.

    [​IMG]

    So I ended up buying a MIG machine. I figured I would need one in the end for body word and hard-to-reach welds anyway.

    This meant a steep learning curve and a lot of parameter tweaking before I could finish the weld. It was hard to find settings for proper penetration. Continued the weld here:

    [​IMG]

    I was pleased with the end result. The MIG machine welds a lot colder.

    [​IMG]




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  27. cjtwigt
    Joined: Dec 23, 2017
    Posts: 148

    cjtwigt
    Member

    I’m still not done with the frame but decide to take on something else. The gearbox cover required a rust repair as well.

    [​IMG]

    I made part a repair section in 2 parts using a bead roller.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Then welded everything up. I’m still in love with my TIG welder

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
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  28. cjtwigt
    Joined: Dec 23, 2017
    Posts: 148

    cjtwigt
    Member

    Back on the chassis. The bottom of the passenger side outer frame rail is almost gone and needs to be replaced.

    This is a long weld and I used the MIG machine again for the bottom weld. This time I beveled the weld surfaces and that meant I could not re-use the parameter settings that I found by trial and error for the same weld on the passenger side. It turned out that the settings for 3mm provided by the machine in synergic mode were perfect.

    [​IMG][​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    It took 15 clamps to keep it all firmly in place.
    I am pleased with the end result but the rail twisted 5 degrees. I heated the rail on the inside of the bottom rail to reduce the twist to 2 degrees.

    [​IMG]


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  29. cjtwigt
    Joined: Dec 23, 2017
    Posts: 148

    cjtwigt
    Member

    The car took a hit in the rear and I had already bent the rear rail back a bit but now it was time for more adjustment.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    I put a square steel tube in the rail and then clamped the combination with a number of heavy clamps. If the square tube fits snug then it works fairly well.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]


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  30. BFXJason
    Joined: Jan 2, 2018
    Posts: 87

    BFXJason

    That is a ton of work but it is paying off! Looking great and quality work!
     

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