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Hot Rods Y-block Ford Tinny, Popping noise. Please Help

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by customline3859, Jun 15, 2020.

  1. customline3859
    Joined: Oct 20, 2017
    Posts: 116

    customline3859
    Member

    Good morning everyone. I hope you guys had a better weekend than I did. I've gotten my rebuilt 304 ci. Y-block to fire up and run for a brief time. On the initial start up, it ran fairly smoothly, but when it warmed up a bit, the valves began to get a little noisy. We adjusted the valves and in the process of the tuning phase, the engine began to make this loud tinny, popping noise. It won't stay running. I have a pertronix ignitor and flamethrower coil. I started looking through their troubleshooting information, but it basically states that the pertronix is either going to work completely or not at all. They attribute running issues to low voltage. When it began having issues, the battery voltage was low, so I purchased a maintainer/charger to make sure the battery was not an issue. I found 12.45 volts at the coil with the ignition switch off and about 10.5 volts with the key on. I assumed the ignition switch was just drawing the battery down too far, so I replaced the switch. I'm still having the same voltage drop, so I'm assuming that the switch just requires that much voltage. Is that correct? I'm just not sure where to go at this point. I've reached out to the gentleman who put together my 3x2 setup for baseline carb settings. I can't really set the timing until I can keep this thing from popping and carrying on. Any advice or information would be greatly appreciated. I have about a month until we move and I really have to have this thing moving under it's own power. Thanks in advance.

    David
     
  2. Truck64
    Joined: Oct 18, 2015
    Posts: 5,325

    Truck64
    Member
    from Ioway

    Sounds a little like you've a weak battery. Charge it up with a real charger. That isn't likely the cause of the Unpleasantness, but. A maintenance free battery will read 12.80 volts when fully charged.

    With a Flamethrower coil and Pertronix can and probably should bypass the ballast wire to the ignition. The resistor is part of the wiring harness itself. I kind of doubt this is the problem as well, but ya never know.
     
  3. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 55,945

    squirrel
    Member

    If you can get video of the engine running, and post it on youtube.com, and link to it here...then we could tell what the engine is doing. If a picture is worth a thousand words, video is worth at least 1200 words.

    With the key off, there should be no voltage at the coil. With the key on, the voltage will depend on several things, such as if there is a ballast resistor in the circuit, or high resistance from a loose or dirty connection somewhere. Wires themselves have some resistance, but it's not much. Switches usually have a little bit, but not much, but they can be intermittent. Before replacing parts, measure the voltage drop across each part that you suspect might be causing it.

    If you meant that the voltage at the coil dropped to 10.5 while cranking the engine, then that is normal.
     
    OahuEli and ffr1222k like this.
  4. lowrd
    Joined: Oct 9, 2007
    Posts: 405

    lowrd
    Member

    I had a similar problem with my 235 Chev with Pertronix. I took the ballast off and the vehicle ran just fine.
    You could also go back to points and see what happens.
     

  5. customline3859
    Joined: Oct 20, 2017
    Posts: 116

    customline3859
    Member

    I'll get a video up as soon as I can.
     
  6. customline3859
    Joined: Oct 20, 2017
    Posts: 116

    customline3859
    Member

    The thought of going back to points for diagnostic purposes crossed my mind this morning. Kinda funny to think about.
     
  7. Did this only happen after adjusting the valves ?
    You say tuning phase,,,,you may have to go back to square one and start over ?

    Tommy
     
  8. customline3859
    Joined: Oct 20, 2017
    Posts: 116

    customline3859
    Member

    It started to act up after the valves were adjusted, but we found that the battery voltage had gotten so low the vehicle would no longer turn over after trying to start it so many times. Thought the voltage drop from the switch was too high and causing the battery to drain down, so I replaced it. It's been on a charger for more than a week now. Battery is less than 3 years old. Plenty of CCAs to start this vehicle. The only thing I've upgraded from the old engine is a newer style starter for the AOD transmission.
     
  9. jimmy six
    Joined: Mar 21, 2006
    Posts: 14,802

    jimmy six
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Your 55 would never have had a ballast resister or resistor wire. I’m assuming you have converted the car to 12 volt prior to all this and since you had points one or the other above was done.
    Whether others here agree or not, I have run my multi-carb Yblock for 7 years with a Pertronix ll and their coil with a ballast resistor and it’s never ever missed a beat. I would look elsewhere.

    Personally I would have started the engine with plates over the outer carbs and broke it in with just a 2 barrel in the center. Much easier to tune and trouble shoot. You don’t tell us anything about the system you have, carbs, (old, which ones if new, some are shitty), manifold, manifold choke heat, vacuum accessories on engine. All these make a difference on a new start up. Stock cam cold should be set a .019” and you can run with the rocker covers off to see oiling. I wedge in cardboard between the springs and outer head ledge. Y’s aren’t SBC’s

    If new cam you needed to run it 20 minutes on initial start at 2000 rpm. I see you have this on the Yblocks page too. There are folks over there that aren’t here on the HAMB so it’s a good place too. Good luck.
     
    OahuEli and loudbang like this.
  10. RmK57
    Joined: Dec 31, 2008
    Posts: 2,659

    RmK57
    Member

    Could be a valve or two hanging open if the lash was set incorrectly.
     
  11. ldl
    Joined: Jun 7, 2012
    Posts: 2

    ldl
    Member
    from Pace Fl

    Popping noise, valve spring coil bind?? LDL
     
  12. customline3859
    Joined: Oct 20, 2017
    Posts: 116

    customline3859
    Member

    My apologies for only providing half of the information. It has been converted to 12 volt. It is a Fenton 3x2 intake. Progressive linkage, so at idle it runs off of the center 2bbl and pulls the other two carbs in at approximately half throttle. Carbs are Ford units, they've been rebuilt. It's a setup I purchased some time ago from OLDREK. It's a new Isky cam #301333 228 intake and exhaust duration at .050 .448 lift 112 deg lobe sep. I haven't been able to get it to run long enough to do a proper break in. I'm running a mummert pcv valley cover. No accessories running off of vacuum. I read the valves should be adjusted to .020" on intake and exhaust
     
  13. carbking
    Joined: Dec 20, 2008
    Posts: 3,715

    carbking
    Member

    You didn't mention, have you upgraded to an alternator? If not, either upgrade to points and condenser, OR upgrade to an alternator. Electronic whizbangs don't like generators.

    As far as break-in, would highly suggest removing the two end carbs and replace with block-off plates for break-in.

    Jon
     
  14. customline3859
    Joined: Oct 20, 2017
    Posts: 116

    customline3859
    Member

    Vehicle does have an alternator
     
  15. Truck64
    Joined: Oct 18, 2015
    Posts: 5,325

    Truck64
    Member
    from Ioway

    What is the recommended valve lash for that camshaft? .019" will work for stock. I doubt that is the spec for an Isky camshaft.

    When you mention "rebuilt", that means different things to different people (it shouldn't, but ..) I understand it to mean new tool steel lifters, springs, pushrods, rocker arms and rocker shafts. It is important to adjust solid lifter valve lash with the lifter on the heel of the cam lobe. There's more than one way to skin a cat, but Y-Blocks are notorious for poor upper oiling and galled and worn rocker bores and tips. This makes accurate adjustment difficult.
     
  16. customline3859
    Joined: Oct 20, 2017
    Posts: 116

    customline3859
    Member

    .020 is rece
    .020 is recommended for this cam. It was fully rebuilt with new lifters, pushrods, springs. I replaced the rocker shafts and inspected the arms for wear. I've done some oil upgrades, so it gets plenty of oil to the valvetrain. I've watched Tim McMaster's YouTube video on valve adjustment a few times now. Trying to make sure I'm doing this right. Finding people locally that are familiar with things that are 60+ years old has been challenging.
     
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  17. Are all unused vacuum ports plugged off? o_O
     
  18. customline3859
    Joined: Oct 20, 2017
    Posts: 116

    customline3859
    Member

    Only one vacuum port on this intake. I have a T fitting in it with one hose going to the brake booster and the other going to the valve in the valley cover.
     
  19. customline3859
    Joined: Oct 20, 2017
    Posts: 116

    customline3859
    Member

    So finally got out to the garage to pull the valve covers and begin the diag process. Any idea as to how this could have happened? Poor casting? Poor adjustment? Did I miss the lifter with the pushrod and it just finally slipped off while it was running? 20200617_182907.jpeg 20200617_182901.jpeg 20200617_182853.jpeg

    Sent from my SM-G973U using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
  20. Boy,,,I was worried about that happening,,,,sorry man .
    If I am counting it right,,,,are all of those exhaust that are broken ?

    Tommy
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2020
  21. Truck64
    Joined: Oct 18, 2015
    Posts: 5,325

    Truck64
    Member
    from Ioway

    Aw $&@t!! One thing, it looks to be damn near bone dry up there. Was oiling verified to both heads and rocker shafts? It's very possible (for example) to install rocker shafts backwards/upside down. No oil will then feed through the shafts.
     
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  22. customline3859
    Joined: Oct 20, 2017
    Posts: 116

    customline3859
    Member

    I'm positive oil is making it up to both rocker shafts. I primed the engine before the initial start up. It has run, but never for very long, and it's been sitting for a few days now. It's one rocker on each bank. I'm not sure if they're both exhaust or what. Checked all the valves and verified none are stuck. I have a set of rockers off of my old engine that have the newer style adjusters. Going to get those all cleaned up and order new pushrods.

    Sent from my SM-G973U using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
  23. Is the rocker that I highlighted cracked or does it just appear that it is?
     

    Attached Files:

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  24. customline3859
    Joined: Oct 20, 2017
    Posts: 116

    customline3859
    Member

    It very well could be. I have the assemblies down in the garage. I won't be reusing any of these rocker arms.

    Sent from my SM-G973U using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
    warhorseracing likes this.
  25. ottoman
    Joined: May 4, 2008
    Posts: 341

    ottoman
    Member
    from Wisconsin

    Coil bind? retainer hitting guide or positive seal. Things like that break rockers and bend pushrods
     
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  26. Scumdog
    Joined: Mar 3, 2010
    Posts: 630

    Scumdog
    Member

    Hmm, exhaust valves near the centre on each side..unusual.

    Do all the rockers move freely?

    When you primed the motor did you see oil coming out at each rocker?

    IF there's insufficient oil I would expect the rockers furtherest away from the oil feed line to bind up first.
     
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  27. customline3859
    Joined: Oct 20, 2017
    Posts: 116

    customline3859
    Member

    All rockers move freely. They are on brand new shafts. Anti-seize was applied to help lubrication during initial start up. I have upgraded to a pressurized rocker setup, so I am positive there is sufficient oiling to the valvetrain. It was suggested that since the vehicle hasn't run in approximately 6 months now, that the fuel in the tank could be causing a temporary valve sticking issue since the guides are brand new and tolerances are tight. I had Isky hardened pushrods installed, so the additional strength could have caused the rocker breakage.
     
  28. 37 caddy
    Joined: Mar 4, 2010
    Posts: 488

    37 caddy
    Member
    from PEI Canada

    do you have enough clearance between the piston and the valve,maybe they touched when it was running,i dont think they are a interference motor?something is definetly not right. harvey
     
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  29. customline3859
    Joined: Oct 20, 2017
    Posts: 116

    customline3859
    Member

    This is not an interference engine. Did not see any contact between piston and valves with a bore scope before engine was ever fired. I feel like if there was a clearance issue, I would have known about it almost immediately after initial start up, which I did not.
     
  30. jimmy six
    Joined: Mar 21, 2006
    Posts: 14,802

    jimmy six
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I looked back at what you wrote. When you readjusted the valves what did the underside of the rocker covers look like? Were the wet, were the drain holes wet, was anything wet with oil. Which rockers were out of adjustment?
    As soon as it started running bad I would have taken them off again. I actually look under my Y rocker covers every few months I’ve lost a push rod into to the valley cover too for no reason I could figure.
    By the way I’ve never had gas go bad in 6 months. Good Luck.
     
    Desoto291Hemi likes this.

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