Projects Little Red Roadster Resurection - original 1929 body on original 1932 frame

They have all the right equipment, a Shark measuring system and centerline gauges hanging on the wall, and a tram bar and they will lock it down on a Chief Easy-Liner. Looks like you picked the right shop clean and well equipped.

 

Got the frame back today. Laser straight and measurements are good but she took a little damage. I’m confident that I can weld it (certified structural) but I’m gonna have to strip the paint off and figure out what I’m dealing with. Looks like there was some frame damage before that was brazed but where it tore was metal so I think the brass was used to fill holes and possibly a frame crack on top. I’ll end up cutting out the inner boxing for about 12 inches, plate the inside of the outside rail and then rebox the inner.

 

Some of the “wrinkles” you see are the thick paint, not metal. The frame guy said it was much harder than anticipated and he thinks the frame was twisted a little before it was boxed. I’m sure the almost 90 year old frame already had some issues. Still only cost $300. And I’ll have a lot more time in it than if I just had a new one built but at least I can say it’s original

 

I'll tell ya I would have done exactly what you have up to this point. You never know how well things will work out till you try. You did that. Now, if it were me I would step back and assess things again. From the photos above I do believe my decision would be to make Wall Hangers out of them and buy a new set of rails. If a previous builder was willing to hide that under paint, don't expect the boxing welds to be any better. Might be time to cut your losses and move a different direction.
The Wizzard

 

Love the work you are doing on it...tough call...but go the way you think is best...

MikeC

 

I’ll be stripping the paint and seeing if I can’t melt the brass out and see what they were trying to do/hide. This thing has had different generations of welders and looking at the rear crossmember welds they look pretty decent. The brass still doesn’t look structural as the tear (and it’s a true tear, not clean like a joined area) is thru metal, not brass. I think I can make that section stronger than it ever was by oval/football plating the inside. Im assuming that since the rear crossmember is welded to the box plating that whoever did the crossmember likely did the boxing. I also realized the boxing plate is diamond plate (1/8”) in the inside (was diamond plate available in the 50’s?) and was likely added later but it’s beefy to say the least. I’m not gonna call it a loss yet at this point even though I was ready to do that before. I have a straight frame. The pictures look a heck of a lot worse than it does with the eye. The body shop felt there wouldn’t be any problem with that area that tore (he told me it happens all the time especially since the box plating is thicker than original frame) and he even offered to weld it for me.

 

Yes diamond plate was available, and the original builder used what ever he could find or have access to. That's just the way it was done back then. Just look at the old car of Norms the Cookie Car that Brizeo is restoring

 

I think if it were me and I was stuck on using this frame I would brace the frame so you don't have to straighten again after this procedure. Cut out the boxing plate at the steering box location at least 10-12 inches either side of the tear. Make sure you have removed all of the brass from previous repairs. Then I would weld in a 3/16" backing plate fitted to the inside of the frame rail extending at least 6" beyond the tear and repeat the process on the inside top and bottom. Now you have what I would consider a pretty good repair. Now to finish the job, I would replace the boxing plate, which if you removed the 10-12" beyond the tear as previously mentioned, should extend well beyond your repair leaving a 4-6" overlap on the end joints. Good luck and remember "Measure twice, cut once".

 

I've never had good luck melting out brazing. It will always leave a residue. I think the best is to blast clean, then you can grind it out.

 

I like to use a rotary file to remove it, when you grind it be sure to use a sharp disc .

 

I would have that frame blasted clean, then finish assessing the damage, so far there is nothing that I have seen that would scare me off. If you are a decent fabricator\welder you can get that frame in shape pretty quickly. Adding the K member will do wonders for the strength of that frame. You might want to talk to your frame guy and see if you can work with him and do the repairs and the k member install on his table so things dont move around too much during the final repair. Great project, good luck!

 

If your going to add a football shaped boxing plate inside the rails, instead of just doing a perimeter weld on it think about just drilling multiple 1/2" holes in the new plate and Plug welding it in place. I've done it that way the few times I've had to. Seemed to keep the weld from drawing the rails due to weld shrinking. I also do this on sheet metal if I ever have to do a lap weld.
The Wizzard

 

I’m a big fan of rosette welding and of course oval vs. square plating as well as versed in triangulation from building roll cages and I know I can make the area way stronger than it ever was originally. The welding part doesn’t scare me honestly, my main concern at this point is if I’m going to have issues with the crossmembers.

 

I’m likely going to be using a 39 style transmission I have....what are some opinions on using a 32 style k member with 32 style pedals vs using 40 style x member and 39 style pedals. I’m definitely going with juice brakes and removing the front discs and replacing with a set of Buick finned drums I have. I know space is even tighter with a 29 body on a pinched frame. What crossmember, pedal combo do you feel would work best?


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I've posted these photos several times over the years. I always liked this one. It's a lay out of things to come.
What your looking at there is two sections of a pair of Model A rails. A 37 Ford X member. 38 front Axle. 36 rear Axle. 39 Trans mount and a 30 AA Truck front crossmember as well as a stock A rear one. This pile is all renderings from other builds. In other words Scrap Iron. It ended up like this.
Pinched in the back. Spring behind the rear housing and in front of the front Axle and a Stock Model A wheel base. Absolutely no kick in the frame and no split front bones. Running a set of 39 pedals. Front motor mounts are F-1 with a little adjustment (in fact everything has a little adjustment). It also runs a stock Flathead 4 blade mechanical Fan.
Here is how it sits with the Channeled 30 Body on it. The plan for it when finished is to be Full Fendered.
So this is just Food for Thought and a little insight to what you could do with things laying around. My whole mission here was to do No hand carved or mail order parts. Keep everything Ford and all pre 1957. So far all that's missed the mark is the Exhaust headers and the Gas tank. Both items are built to fit the space alloted. Probably much as I would have done as a Teenager if I could have at that time. Hope this gives you some ideas and gets you to the next step.
The Wizzard

 

Hey I remember that Hotrod...Colbert approved...
Chain Verified Temporary...

Don't mean to Hijack but hows that coming along?

https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum...ogenized-hotrods.1002926/page-2#post-11311045

https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum...ogenized-hotrods.1002926/page-2#post-11311137


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@Fyresq the frame looks great...I admire the effort taken to keep the Hotrod united...

 

Short answer, It's resting. Made a lot of progress since last photo but as life goes other things take priority. Retirement isn't what I thought it would be.
The Wizzard

 

Isn't that the truth about retirement? I'm still waiting for all that "extra" time I thought I was going to have.

 

go for the x member. less flex

 

Exactly one of the reasons I used the 37 unit. Much more stable than the 32 unit. Another plus is that unit is used for several years and much easier to find. You can buy repro 39 pedal unit if you so like. A guy can get over a Grand in the same 32 only parts. The 35 up X member ends behind the firewall so it's out of sight. I drew my frame together 2 inches at the front Body mount bolt to make the Channel job go easier and the 39 pedals still have plenty of operating room. Yes I did heat them just a bit but that was so they were evenly spaced on each side of the steering column, that was not a big deal. They just had to look correct.
The Wizzard

 

So it’s been a little bit since I posted. I started a new business so that’s been taking a lot of time but the sun was out and I had a few hours. I’ve decided I’m gonna put some time into the frame since it’s original to the build. Worst case Is that I get one built in the end. One positive is that I’ve been removing some of the brazing on the frame and none of it is structural. It looks like it was used like leading in an era before bondo. Even the old holes I found are actually welded. So I clamped the tear from the frame straightening and threw some stitch welds so I can cut and start boxing it on the inside.

 

well I think I’ve gotten the frame as straight as it’s gonna be. Been back to the frame shop twice. Always difficult when it has been pinched and lots of mods over the years. But my goal all along has been to save the originality of the car.


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I decided to strip the 80’s paint. When I took the door panels off (sweet 70’s 80’s faux leather) I was reminded that this is a true 50’s Hotrod. Someone had put “sound deadener” in there long ago that consisted of an old dress and newspaper. I believe the date on the newspaper is 1949 and should be able to look up what era JC Penney’s was known as Penney’s.
Edit: the Penney’s Towncraft Pima cotton clothing was sold in the 1950’s.


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It’s hard to tell what’s original on this car and what isn’t since it had it’s 80’s street rod treatment but the rear chevy lenses are glass. Was happy to take out the VW E/handbrake, lol.


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You are slowly but surely getting there. I have straightened a lot of frames using centerline gauges, setting them up and learning how to read them take a little practice. The laser. Car Aligner just to mane a few work great but the is no data for the older frames in their data base. Quick Way use to publish frame books to use with centerline gauges and it had all the measurements printed in it. With the electronic measuring systems you could write a program for the frame you are using. I like where you are going with this build. Your correct about brass being used to fill and smooth. The problem is if you grind brass it melts and smears, i usually heat and wire brush it to remove the majority of it Then use a sharp open coat 36 grit disc to get the last bit out. I also use rotary files a lot. Keep up the good work Frank

 

Yeah, I’m very lucky to have a body repair shop down the street that has an all digital rack. It’s pretty impressive. We used Wescotts basic measurements for pinched 32 frame. Keeping my fingers crossed she tracks straight in the end but I have to remind myself that a kid in the 50’s wouldn’t be nearly as meticulous as I’m trying to be. Just trying to get a good foundation.


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I was pleasantly surprised at what was behind the chrome firewall panel. I was expecting a lot worse.


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Not bad at all. 29 are my favorite. Here is my tub and my new build. Frank